story going around-Bills run D this year is worst in the NFL since 1934 (Cincinnati Reds)

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills are giving up 5.8 yards per carry. 

 

Multiple people have reported that this is the worst in the NFL since 1934, when the short-lived Cincinnati Reds gave up 6.4 ypc in an 0-8 season. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/red/1934.htm 

 

Cowherd reported this, as did Florio yesterday in his preview (with Simms) of the Bill Panthers game. 

 

Anyway, even though I realize we're only six games in and regression to the mean is a real thing, this is pretty effing bad!

 

 

He is spot on.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

This is what happens when you start Daquan Jones. 
 

Beane is still obsessed with a light and fast defense that a lot of teams ran around 2020-2021. The league has an adjusted but he really hasn’t, though Deone Walker looks like a slam dunk pick. 

 

Daquan was the MVP of that defense before he got hurt in the Jags game. Never has been the same since. He was a force against both the pass and the run for those first several games.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[Chaos]

The 1934 Reds surrendered 6.40 rushing yards per attempt, the worst figure in professional football history.[3] They are the only team in NFL history to surrender more than five yards per carry.
 

The team lost 64–0 in week 8 and folded as a franchise. The team was purchased by a group of St. Louis businessmen, who played out the final three games of the Reds' schedule as the St. Louis Gunners.

Now, you know the rest of the story. 

[MPL]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The 1934 Reds surrendered 6.40 rushing yards per attempt, the worst figure in professional football history.[3] They are the only team in NFL history to surrender more than five yards per carry.
 

The team lost 64–0 in week 8 and folded as a franchise. The team was purchased by a group of St. Louis businessmen, who played out the final three games of the Reds' schedule as the St. Louis Gunners.

Now, you know the rest of the story. 

So, we're moving to St. Louis if we lose this weekend? 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, MPL said:

So, we're moving to St. Louis if we lose this weekend? 

I think we get 8 games 

[Big Turk]

It's interesting because typically the Bills aren't killed down to down as much as they get hurt with long runs that tend to inflate the numbers.

 

I'm not saying they have been great, but really it's more a few plays a game here and there that lead to huge averages versus constantly giving up big yards per carry.

[MPL]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

8 minutes ago, MPL said:

So, we're moving to St. Louis if we lose this weekend? 

I think we get 8 games 

Phew. I was worried I wouldn't have enough time to pack. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Want to stop the run?

 

Score early and often. 

 

Protect your run defense by making them one dimensional. 

 

I get the philosophy of eating clock on offense, but it has not worked in the last few games.

 

Let your superstar QB put up 28 points in the first half. That will stop teams from running the ball. 

That's what we used to do with DaBoll

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Every fan sees why we can’t stop the run without throwing numbers at it. 
 

We draft undersized, penetrating DT’s.  Thats the trade off.  
 

We draft undersized, sideline to sideline linebackers.  That’s the trade off.

 

Our run defense is bad by design.  Always has been.  Everyone saw this coming a mile away.

 

Now it’s further exposed due to injuries and not having prime Hyde/Poyer to mask defensive deficiencies on the back end.

 

And why do we have so many injuries every year on Defense?   Well, undersized players typically don’t hold up as well over the course of the season when getting pummeled by bigger, stronger players. 
 

None of this is surprising.   Just like the WR issues ever since Diggs/Brown/Beasley.  It’s cognizant team building failures and it’s by design. Somehow the only people who don’t see this reside at One Bills Drive. 
 

Team is built to rush the passer and hunt off a lead.  But we can’t do that when games are close because the opponent has 9-10-11 play drives consuming 6-7-8 minutes, shortening the game for an Offense that has zero quick strike ability due to its constant lack of WR talent. 

So now we’re a run heavy team, milking the clock… playing other teams who want to run at us and milk the clock.  
 

Our defensive philosophy makes zero sense given this reality. 
 

 

 

The defense has always, by design, prioritised playing the pass vs the run, but it was particularly good at not giving up explosive runs very often and so teams get frustrated and don't stick with it. The reason for that I think we are now seeing is that Poyer and Hyde in their pomp came up and tackled and covered up a lot. Bishop and Rapp are way off that standard, Taron's play has declined too and so those 6 or 7 yard runs are 15 yard runs and the 15 yard runs are 40 yard runs. And to make matters worse the defense can't defend the pass either, the secondary has been rubbish in coverage and so has their MLB. 

 

The defense right now is a total mess. 

[dave mcbride]

A couple of people have pointed out that the numbers are skewed by a couple of long runs, and while that certainly factors in, against one of the worst teams in the league (New Orleans) and playing at home, the Bills surrendered 189 on 34 carries (5.6 ypc) -- and the longest run was 18 yards. And that was one of their GOOD games simply going by the numbers.  Against Miami, they gave up 130 yards on 25 carries (5.2 ypc) and the longest run was again 18 yards. Even the Jets, who were incapable of throwing the ball and behind all game, ran 21 times for 100 yards (4.9 ypc).  Granted, in the Jets game most of the rushing yards were by the QBs.

Edited 2 hours ago by dave mcbride

[Chaos]

30 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

It's interesting because typically the Bills aren't killed down to down as much as they get hurt with long runs that tend to inflate the numbers.

 

I'm not saying they have been great, but really it's more a few plays a game here and there that lead to huge averages versus constantly giving up big yards per carry.

Every teams numbers in increased by long runs. No one is giving up exactly 4 yards a carry on every run. 

 

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The defense has always, by design, prioritised playing the pass vs the run, but it was particularly good at not giving up explosive runs very often and so teams get frustrated and don't stick with it. The reason for that I think we are now seeing is that Poyer and Hyde in their pomp came up and tackled and covered up a lot. Bishop and Rapp are way off that standard, Taron's play has declined too and so those 6 or 7 yard runs are 15 yard runs and the 15 yard runs are 40 yard runs. And to make matters worse the defense can't defend the pass either, the secondary has been rubbish in coverage and so has their MLB. 

 

The defense right now is a total mess. 

Not trying to provoke an argument or change the thread subject.  But is your opinion that the state of the defense requires a full blown rebuild. Or do you think the fundamentally operating concepts for the defense are solid, and require just a change of a couple of players to be championhip caliber?

 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills are giving up 5.8 yards per carry. 

 

Multiple people have reported that this is the worst in the NFL since 1934, when the short-lived Cincinnati Reds gave up 6.4 ypc in an 0-8 season. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/red/1934.htm 

 

Cowherd reported this, as did Florio yesterday in his preview (with Simms) of the Bill Panthers game. 

 

Anyway, even though I realize we're only six games in and regression to the mean is a real thing, this is pretty effing bad!

 

 

Awesome job building the D and ignoring the offense Beane.  One ***** WR instead of Landon Jackson would have been nice.  You are going make Josh frustrated, so FU Beane for that!

HISTORICALLY BAD DEFENSE BEANE!  YOU GET A GOLD STAR 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Chaos said:

 

Not trying to provoke an argument or change the thread subject.  But is your opinion that the state of the defense requires a full blown rebuild. Or do you think the fundamentally operating concepts for the defense are solid, and require just a change of a couple of players to be championhip caliber?

 

 

And I am not trying to avoid directly answering the question but bear with me:

 

1. I do think the schematic fundamentals of the defense are solid, but I don't think they are being executed solidly and when I say executed I do not just mean by the players, I mean by the coaches too. I think the playcalling is bad and I have seen more of the Bills not being lined up properly and confused pre-snap this year than I have in the last 5 or 6 years combined. So I don't think it is just about swapping a few players out, it is about the way the entire operation is being coached and played. 

 

2. That said, if McDermott cannot get this fixed by the end of the season then they have to make a change. You cannot be a defensive minded Head Coach on a team that is supposed to contend and have a defense that is this fundamentally broken. This isn't like some playoff failures against top teams, this is much more intrinsic to the way the Bills are playing defense. So if they can't fix it then they need to blow it up and that starts at the top. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We spend so much time talking about WR and the offense it’s absolutely maddening. The offense is fine, it’s been fine it will be fine. The problem with the team is the defense. Since 2018, it’s been the defense. It hasn’t changed it won’t change. The guy COACHING the defense is why we can’t win. Never expecting to make stops is inconceivable. Every team in the league expects to make stops. We flat out never do. That is the problem. Forget trading for a WR. Bring in a guy to take over the defense. That’s how we get there. Until then, it makes no difference 

Edited 2 hours ago by Brianmoorman4jesus

[billsfan714]

Teams that out rush their opponents win 70 percent of the time.   Stopping the run is pretty important.   But lets have more talk about a WR.

Edited 1 hour ago by billsfan714

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

This is what happens when you start Daquan Jones. 
 

Beane is still obsessed with a light and fast defense that a lot of teams ran around 2020-2021. The league has an adjusted but he really hasn’t, though Deone Walker looks like a slam dunk pick. 

 

DTs aren't the problem IMO. The back 7 has been the problem. DQ to my eyes has been fine, and Walker has made a few elite plays against the run. McDermott wants his front players to plug their gap and force the RB to a spot where a LB or safety can clean up the tackle. The problem is Bernard regularly gets turned out of his gap, Williams when he has played is nowhere near his gap, Rapp misses 25% of his tackles, and Bishop has been slow to react and takes poor angles to the ball carrier. So on seemingly every play we're either stopping the RB in the backfield or we're giving up 8+ yards. DTs aren't going to shed every single block. We need more 3 yard gains, less house calls.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by HappyDays

[SoCal Deek]

Was Johnny Bench on that Reds team? I always liked him. 

[Special K]

Cincinatti Reds........you know it's bad when you cant stop the run better than a Baseball Team!!!😀

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

PUT THREE LINEBACKERS ON THE FIELD. I don’t care if we did it more this year than in the past. It’s still nowhere near enough. Stop the love affair with Tarron Johnson. You are making it way too easy on teams. And we don’t stop the pass on 3rd down anyway. For a team that’s obsessed with playing nickel, why can’t we ever make stops on 3rd down? We aren’t even good at it. Stop doing it

[Livinginthepast]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Want to stop the run?

 

Score early and often. 

 

Protect your run defense by making them one dimensional. 

 

I get the philosophy of eating clock on offense, but it has not worked in the last few games.

 

Let your superstar QB put up 28 points in the first half. That will stop teams from running the ball. 

Very true and it worked best when Dabol was the OC with Allen. Since then its been Allen on his own doing it with one hand behind his back because of his amateur hour OCs. Is it still possible for the offense to get out to a big lead? Yes but far less likely with sputtering schemes of Brady.   As soon as a team hangs with us because we cant do anything on offense and our defense gets tired from being on the field, the game becomes much more difficult.