Joe Marino's 9 point plan for improvement

[Ray Stonada]

Good plan, totally sensible.

 

I would add: 

 

For short-yardage, design a 22 formation that can run any play, with Josh under center, Cook HB, Gilliam FB, Kincaid TE, Hawes TE, and one WR (probably Shakir).

 

If the defense loads up, you audible and the same formation shifts from heavy to spread, probably with Shakir in orbit motion.

 

Run Cook or pass out of that and a goal-line defense will have no chance.

 

1989-91 Bills used to do this on gotta-have it short yardage plays (except without the orbit motion) and it worked great. 

[JP51]

32 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Tis funny how the fans always have all the answers 🤣

The funny thing to me is how the coaching staff is whistling by the graveyard or simply refuses the obvious... the sad thing would be if they do see and just have no answers.  Actually upon further review... there honestly isnt anything funny about where we are right now. 

[Lost]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You should checkout Joes' podcast it always a great listen and very informative.

 

9 points in concise fashion

1. Get back to mismatches as our big people are our strength on offense. 11-12-22 formations etc. and throw from it more as well.

2. Use Keon Coleman less, he has the most snaps and targets of any receiver.

3. Use Kincaid and Palmer more.

4. Use the Backs more in the pass game (doesn't understand where this went to).

5. Get Larry O and Hoecht up to speed and reduce the DL snaps by rookies and practice squad guys. Easy one.

6. Shaq Thompson is our best LB and needs to be treated as such. Try Bernard some at WLB.

7. Get Hairston going soon. Mentions ramping up and platooning and having ready by late season and playoffs.

8. Replace Taylor Rapp with Poyer. Not optimal, but addition by subtraction. 

9. Workout a trade for WR who can stretch and cause some fear, mentions Olave and Shaheed (PR too).

 

Many of us have mentioned some of these. The Coleman thing and being treated as if the #1 is shocking to me. We have stopped using the backs receiving as much as last year and its inexplicable. The reinforcements are self explanatory, but the safety question is bleak. All in all, there is hope, if they make some of the correct moves and don't be stubborn.

 

 

I'll agree with all these things except running only heavy packages.   We need to get back to mixing in spread formations out more and throwing on 1st, 2nd down.   Im still disgusted we've turned our super athletic MVP QB into a game manager.   We've neutered Josh so much he's gone from 4500yds 35+ TDs per season down to under 4000 and under 30 TDS.   We should be evolving his game, not turning him into the current iteration of Russel Wilson.   Get him a weapon and start stretching the field again.   

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd rather see Cole Bishop replaced than Rapp. At least Rapp can tackle.

 

Rapp is missing 25% of his tackles this season! It's bizarre because last year he only missed 3.6% of tackles. That kind of regression is inexplicable.

 

I have no idea what's going on there but Rapp even at his best isn't such a good player that you should stay patient and hope he figures it out. He needs to be replaced ASAP. I'm fine with a replacement level player at safety, but Rapp has become a liability.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You should checkout Joes' podcast it always a great listen and very informative.

 

9 points in concise fashion

1. Get back to mismatches as our big people are our strength on offense. 11-12-22 formations etc. and throw from it more as well.

2. Use Keon Coleman less, he has the most snaps and targets of any receiver.

3. Use Kincaid and Palmer more.

4. Use the Backs more in the pass game (doesn't understand where this went to).

5. Get Larry O and Hoecht up to speed and reduce the DL snaps by rookies and practice squad guys. Easy one.

6. Shaq Thompson is our best LB and needs to be treated as such. Try Bernard some at WLB.

7. Get Hairston going soon. Mentions ramping up and platooning and having ready by late season and playoffs.

8. Replace Taylor Rapp with Poyer. Not optimal, but addition by subtraction. 

9. Workout a trade for WR who can stretch and cause some fear, mentions Olave and Shaheed (PR too).

 

Many of us have mentioned some of these. The Coleman thing and being treated as if the #1 is shocking to me. We have stopped using the backs receiving as much as last year and its inexplicable. The reinforcements are self explanatory, but the safety question is bleak. All in all, there is hope, if they make some of the correct moves and don't be stubborn.

 

Some of this is fine (throwing more to the RBs), but most of it is just paper-shuffling.  He’s saying to feature Larry Ogunjobi, Michael Hoecht, Shaq Thompson, Joshua Palmer, Jordan Poyer, and Dawson Knox.  Is that list of names really going to change anything?  The other two suggestions are to play your first round CB and Dalton Kincaid when they get healthy and to add more talent (not exactly novel ideas).

 

I feel like this list is more of an indictment of Beane than it is useful suggestions for McDermott.

[BearNorth]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 Run him in some slants, crossing patterns and such.

Coleman can't get separation, no separation puts your passing game at higher risk of INT's and 3 and outs.

[Puckman5]

52 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

These types of comments are so strange to me. 

 

What are you supposed to do? Storm the stadium? Start your own football league? 

 

The only recourse fans have is to have discussions like this about what could make them better. 

 

Like it or not, but this is where the Bills are at presently. There's not much a fan can do other than not watch (the old "voting with your wallet" trope). Considering this is still much better than the 17 years of slop they threw out there previously I'm inclined to continue watching, but you do you. 

Pitchforks and torches?  I do think this is still a good team and things will get better, but it's hard to blame folks for being frustrated.  It's not unreasonable to expect coaches and management to learn from past mistakes and make improvements when weaknesses are exposed.  There no excuse for the penalties / lack of discipline.  The coaches know what we have and need to maximize the talent, even if it means adjusting schemes to match what they have to work wirh.  I think the offense will get sorted out, but I'm losing faith in the defense whisperer and his ways.  It's beyond ugly on that side of the ball. Reinforcements should help, but I'm not sure I trust the process to get this team to promised land.  

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Rapp is missing 25% of his tackles this season! It's bizarre because last year he only missed 3.6% of tackles. That kind of regression is inexplicable.

 

I have no idea what's going on there but Rapp even at his best isn't such a good player that you should stay patient and hope he figures it out. He needs to be replaced ASAP. I'm fine with a replacement level player at safety, but Rapp has become a liability.

According to PFR, he's missed 21.2 percent (still terrible!) after only missing 2.4 percent last season. He has seven missed tackles through six games after having only five missed tackles in the previous two seasons.

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You should checkout Joes' podcast it always a great listen and very informative.

 

9 points in concise fashion

1. Get back to mismatches as our big people are our strength on offense. 11-12-22 formations etc. and throw from it more as well.

2. Use Keon Coleman less, he has the most snaps and targets of any receiver.

3. Use Kincaid and Palmer more.

4. Use the Backs more in the pass game (doesn't understand where this went to).

5. Get Larry O and Hoecht up to speed and reduce the DL snaps by rookies and practice squad guys. Easy one.

6. Shaq Thompson is our best LB and needs to be treated as such. Try Bernard some at WLB.

7. Get Hairston going soon. Mentions ramping up and platooning and having ready by late season and playoffs.

8. Replace Taylor Rapp with Poyer. Not optimal, but addition by subtraction. 

9. Workout a trade for WR who can stretch and cause some fear, mentions Olave and Shaheed (PR too).

 

Many of us have mentioned some of these. The Coleman thing and being treated as if the #1 is shocking to me. We have stopped using the backs receiving as much as last year and its inexplicable. The reinforcements are self explanatory, but the safety question is bleak. All in all, there is hope, if they make some of the correct moves and don't be stubborn.

 

 

The Keon thing is surprising... 

 

But I think everyone is sick of seeing the back shoulder throw to Keon this year. It has been a wasted down nearly every time

[2003Contenders]

43 minutes ago, SCBills said:

To the Keon Coleman point, the only way this Offense goes to another level is if he becomes something.  Trade for a WR aside. 
 

So, yea, we can demote him in the Offense, but all that does is make us a big personnel, more predictable offense and we’re already very predictable without much on the outside to threaten teams vertically. 
 

Just seems like a band-aid that perhaps makes us more efficient, but come playoff time.. easier to defend unless we simply execute at an extremely high level.  

Agreed.

 

I don't think the issue with Coleman is that he is getting too many targets -- it is the KIND of targets he is getting.

 

I really do believe that he is best utilized in the bubble and slant game, where he can best utilize his basketball box-out skills and physicality rather than expecting him to win downfield battles, when creating separation isn't a gift of his. If Brady can get get him involved in these situations early in a game, I also think it would help with his confidence, which I believe has been hindered the last couple of games. Maybe getting him involved in a thoughtful, creative manner COULD eventually help him elevate his route running and better develop nuances to ultimately create separation on intermediate and deeper routes?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

47 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

Dan Mitchell is awful. 

 

Joe has great insight and does the work

Some of these podcasts have hosts whose delivery and voices just grate on my ears.  That's probably my failing, I should just see if there's close captioning for the voice intolerant. 🤔

*
And if you want to be really  tortured, listen to some of the sci-fi geeks out there doing podcasts. 😫

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Step 1 : stop playing zone. Put 47 and 31 on the outside and live and die with them playing coverage. We will be fine. Take chances without sitting back and letting a team shred you with zero resistance. Stop willingly allowing free first downs and praying for turnovers

 

step 2 : Move Tarron Johnson or White to Safety. See which one sticks 

 

Step 3: stop taking LBs off the field 

45 8 43/58 on every snap.

 

step 4: keep blitzing and do it even more than we already are

 

Fixing the defense is the whole thing. It’s been for 7 years. Just do it already. Stop being passive and start setting the tone. Make teams uncomfortable. I’ll live with a hit or two over the top if it means we force sone 3 and outs. Play defense FFS. Every other team can figure it out

[BuffaloBillyG]

30 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I was gonna say, pretty much everyone here is similar in thought... I think what is missing in my opinion some of which we not be agreed upon is...  

 

1. Identify a defensive mind and intstall this person... Fire Babick or not... but take the play calling and design duties away...  I say fire him

2. Trade for another WR that can stretch the field but I hate this... sit Shavers, or Elijah or Samuel, put Keon on the bench etc... lets get Gabe in there when ready and see what he does... 

3. Get another LB with some size and see if we can augment Bernards role from attacking/pursuing to more coverage and or maybe more blitzing... like a hybrid LB/Saftey like a George Wilson back in the day... he is awful shedding blocks and gets eaten up way to easily. 

From all accounts of the players, Babich is actually an excellent coach. He's had success with whatever position group he's been in charge of historically. I would hate to lose him.

 

But just like there are coaches that are excellent coordinators that make bad head coaches, I feel like Babich is an excellent position coach that isn't meant for the DC role. He struggles calling games and having a gameplan ready to roll out of the gate. It does seem like the defense gets better in the second half but I don't know if it's him or McDermott making the adjustments. But I definitely think McDermott needs to be calling the defense from this point on. 

 

I agree we really could use a WR in trade this year. I just don't see anyone that would help being available. Sure there are plenty of fans speculating on what teams should be in fire sale mode, but realistically, aside from possibly Jakobi Meyers I don't see any other big WR moves happening this trade deadline league wide. I expect most of the speculated WRs will stay put. 

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Funny enough if Hamlin was healthy I'd put him in over Rapp right now. Hamlin has his athletic limitations but he plays his assignment and hits his landmarks, which is more than Rapp is doing this season. He also wouldn't be missing 25% of his tackles like Rapp is.

Agree. Rapp is and has been terrible. He was awful last year too, people are just starting to catch on.

[zevo]

Unbelievable that we are going through another season like this with Josh. 

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

1 hour ago, Gigs said:

Thats a 9 point plan for a team that is fighting just to stay alive for the playoffs, not a heavily-favortied SB contender. 

 

Why do we put up with this?

Because Mcdermott and Beane are nice guys who help old ladies cross the street.

[T&C]

10. Get Jackson Hawes more involved.

[SectionC3]

5 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Step 1 : stop playing zone. Put 47 and 31 on the outside and live and die with them playing coverage. We will be fine. Take chances without sitting back and letting a team shred you with zero resistance. Stop willingly allowing free first downs and praying for turnovers

 

step 2 : Move Tarron Johnson or White to Safety. See which one sticks 

 

Step 3: stop taking LBs off the field 

45 8 43/58 on every snap.

 

step 4: keep blitzing and do it even more than we already are

 

Fixing the defense is the whole thing. It’s been for 7 years. Just do it already. Stop being passive and start setting the tone. Make teams uncomfortable. I’ll live with a hit or two over the top if it means we force sone 3 and outs. Play defense FFS. Every other team can figure it out

 

Don't do step 2.  At least not with White.  Please.  

[T master]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You should checkout Joes' podcast it always a great listen and very informative.

 

9 points in concise fashion

1. Get back to mismatches as our big people are our strength on offense. 11-12-22 formations etc. and throw from it more as well.

2. Use Keon Coleman less, he has the most snaps and targets of any receiver.

3. Use Kincaid and Palmer more.

4. Use the Backs more in the pass game (doesn't understand where this went to).

5. Get Larry O and Hoecht up to speed and reduce the DL snaps by rookies and practice squad guys. Easy one.

6. Shaq Thompson is our best LB and needs to be treated as such. Try Bernard some at WLB.

7. Get Hairston going soon. Mentions ramping up and platooning and having ready by late season and playoffs.

8. Replace Taylor Rapp with Poyer. Not optimal, but addition by subtraction. 

9. Workout a trade for WR who can stretch and cause some fear, mentions Olave and Shaheed (PR too).

 

Many of us have mentioned some of these. The Coleman thing and being treated as if the #1 is shocking to me. We have stopped using the backs receiving as much as last year and its inexplicable. The reinforcements are self explanatory, but the safety question is bleak. All in all, there is hope, if they make some of the correct moves and don't be stubborn.

 

Most all sounds good but I have heard mention made of using Coleman in the slot seeing as that is where he was utilized quite a bit in his college days, rather than not using a high draft pick if they are going to keep his snap count high try him in other spots to see if he might be more productive there rather than just shelving him .

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

Agreed.

 

I don't think the issue with Coleman is that he is getting too many targets -- it is the KIND of targets he is getting.

 

I really do believe that he is best utilized in the bubble and slant game, where he can best utilize his basketball box-out skills and physicality rather than expecting him to win downfield battles, when creating separation isn't a gift of his. If Brady can get get him involved in these situations early in a game, I also think it would help with his confidence, which I believe has been hindered the last couple of games. Maybe getting him involved in a thoughtful, creative manner COULD eventually help him elevate his route running and better develop nuances to ultimately create separation on intermediate and deeper routes?

Agreed.  He isn't really a contested catch guy.  Or at least he doesn't do it well. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

The coaches offices have a framed needlepoint of Buddy Ryan's old saying:

"If you listen to the fans, you'll be sitting up there with them."