Roster Support over the past three years (Beane)

[jethro_tull]

19 hours ago, pigpen65 said:

Coleman sucks. 

What sucks even more is the idea that an alley-oop pass will work in the NFL.    

[Mikie2times]

5 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

What am i looking at with this play?  At the 2 second mark this ball could go to an uncovered shakir.  If Josh bails right he probably has coleman. 

 

23 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Not arguing anything you wrote; but this is a bizarre clip to show as the authors support: The play where we lose our Center to injury and a backup enters, who between him and the LG don’t handle the twist the right way. 
 

The mesh might have actually been there had they not completely blown the protection. 
 

Again, not arguing the perspective but it just feels like a better example could have been shown. 

I was just agreeing with the comments. I didn't even look at the video.

[Success]

It's so hard to gauge on defense, imo.

 

I really think our scheme is outdated and doesn't work.  It's "bend, don't break" - but breaks often.  

 

I think a top-tier DC could use the personnel we have now to create a much more formidable D.

 

[Blackbeard]

Beane seems handicapped by having to pay the unicorn qb.  
 

one thing to build a team without your franchise qb yet.   But once you land him, the roster building and GMing changes immensely.  

[KOKBILLS]

56 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Let's do it.

 

Again I ask: if you could have DK Metcalf or the combination of Ed Oliver and and absolute scrub OL prospect, who are you taking?

 

Can I have Dexter Lawrence and DK Metcalf? 

 

I think Lawrence and Jeffrey Simmons are both REAL good studies on how the Bills, and their philosophy on culture at Draft time, can sometimes backfire... Both Lawrence and Simmons came into the 2019 Draft with off field issues. Only NFL teams will know the whole story and the true severity, but the fact that the Giants and Titans both used 1st Round picks on them shows that, at least in those organizations, they were comfortable that the troubles were behind them. Neither Lawrence nor Simmons have been suspended in the NFL to this point, and it can at least be argued that Ed has had more off-the-field trouble with the gun thing. I think it's crystal clear Simmons and Lawrence are better all around DT's than Ed. It is what it is...

Edited 7 hours ago by KOKBILLS

[Mikie2times]

28 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

Beane seems handicapped by having to pay the unicorn qb.  
 

one thing to build a team without your franchise qb yet.   But once you land him, the roster building and GMing changes immensely.  

I don't think he's handicapped per say. We didn't break the bank to bring in John Brown, Cole Beasley, Hyde, Poyer, and several others. These were massive value adds at the time. We just aren't bringing in players of that level at this point. Then you look at guys like Diggs and Miller. Which in my opinion were the correct moves. But I think it left Beane feeling a bit burned. Now he seems gun shy to consider "A" talent moves outside of trying to get them in the draft. It seems like all of our signings are complimentary type signings. When during the first build those signings felt more like foundational pieces. Our foundation has now become the drafts of the last 3-5 years which even if looked at favorably have not produced a lot top talent.

 

Then we haven't been creating high level competition for those drafted players. We challenge them with FA depth pieces. But we don't say, can I actually do better than a Daquan Jones, Cole Bishop, Rapp or Bernard etc. I'm not even sure any of these guys even start outside of Buffalo. Then we walk right into a situation where if we can't draft a day 1 starter Tre White is starting for us. That was literally the plan. It's just so badly executed at this point. I don't know what has happened with Beane the last few years but he's just not the same guy.  

Edited 7 hours ago by Mikie2times

[Cray51]

I compared the last three drafts (not the current season, too soon) of Buffalo compared to a few other teams who have been in  similar situations as the Bills (Division winners since 2020, high end QB).  That pretty much leaves Baltimore and Kansas City.  And with that, Baltimore had a few down years (21-22 and 22-23).

 

Bills:

Draft Picks:

2024: 

Coleman - Meh so far

Bishop - Meh so far

Carter - Bust

Davis - Meh

Van-Prager - Bust

Ulofisho - Bust

Solomon - Bust

Grable - Unknown (they like him a lot)

Hardy - Bust

Clayton - Bust

No standout talent

 

Ravens:

2024:

Wiggins - Good

Rosengarten - Meh

Isaac - Bust

Walker - Bust

Tampa - Meh (bad year so far)

Ali - Bust

Leary - Bust

Samac - Bust

Kane - Bust

 

KC:

2024:

Worthy - Meh/Good (He has had big games, but his career stats are almost EXACTLY like Colemans')

Kingsley - Meh

Wiley - Bust

Hicks - Meh

Nourzad - Meh

Hadden - Bust

Hanson - Bust

 

2024 Summary:

None of the teams hit on a stud in this draft.  Worthy has shown a flash or two, but the production doesnt match the way some speak of him here.  Wiggins is probably the best player of the group to date.  No superstars or even stars out of the group yet (maybe Wiggins, but I'd say that's a stretch)

 

2023:

Bills:

Kincaid - Meh/Good (Trending well but injured frequently)

Torrence - Good (Maybe really good)

Williams - Meh

Shorter - Bust

Broeker - Bust

Austin - Bust for the Bills, Meh pick overall

 

Ravens:

Flowers - Good

Simpson - Good

Robinson - Meh

Kelly - Bust

Laulu - Bust

Vorehees - meh

 

KC:

Uzomah - Bust

Rice - Good 

Morris - Bust

Conners - Meh (decent player though)

Thompson - Bust

Coburn - Bust

Jones - Bust

 

2023 Summary: Again, all similar results to date.  Baltimore with probably the best results, but you could argue the Bills have had two legit impact players on their offense in Kincaid and Torrence.  KC with the worst draft of the group, Uzomah was a massive bust

 

2022 Draft:

Bills:

Elam: Bust

Cook - Great

Bernard - Good

Shakir - Good

Araiza - Good (Bust for Bills)

Benford - Good

Tenuta - Bust

Spector - Bust

 

Ravens:

Hamilton - Great

Linderbaum - Good

Ojabo - Bust

Jones - Good

Faalele - Meh

Armour-Davis - Bust

Kolar - Bust

Stout - Good

Likely - Good

Williams - Bust

Badie - Bust

 

KC:

McDuffie - Great

Karlaftis - Good

Moore - Bust

Cook - Good

Chenal - Good

Williams - Good

Kinnard - Bust

Watson - Meh

Pacheco - Meh

Johnson - Bust

 

Summary: Really strong draft year.  Baltimore really lucked into Hamilton this season, the fact that he fell is crazy.  Elam bust stick out, but the Bills had a really strong rest of the draft.  Overall, I'd say all three teams had a great draft - hard to differentiate impact.

 

Overall summary - None of the teams have been head or shoulders above the others over the past three drafts (22-24).  Each team have had their share of hits (McDuffie, Hamilton, Cook), and their share of busts (Uzomah, Elam).  If you try to compare the Bills draft to any other teams, they tend to have picked much earlier than them from 2020-2025, which drastically impacts the results.  At the end of the day, if you are upset with the Bills draft results from the past few years, you could be a fan of KC or Baltimore and saying the exact same thing.

 

I'll need to cover FA in another post

[JohnNord]

20 hours ago, Virgil said:

Looking back at all the offseason moves to support this team the past three years is a lot more eye opening than I expected.  I went and bolded all the players who are contributing this season in a meaningful way, it's a scary sight.  On draft classes alone, you could argue Beane should be fired.  3 total starters from the last three drafts.  That's horrific.  Add to that the new contact extensions that we can't get out of, and it looks to be time....

 

 

2025 Draft 

Round 1 (30th overall): Maxwell Hairston, CB, Kentucky

Round 2 (41st overall): T.J. Sanders, DT, South Carolina

Round 3 (72nd overall): Landon Jackson, DE, Arkansas

Round 4 (109th overall): Deone Walker, DT, Kentucky

Round 5 (170th overall): Jordan Hancock, DB, Ohio State

Round 5 (173rd overall): Jackson Hawes, TE, Georgia Tech 

 

2024 Draft 

Round 2: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State, No. 33 overall (from Panthers)

Round 2: S Cole Bishop, Utah, No. 60

Round 3: DT DeWayne Carter, Duke, No. 95 (from Chiefs)

Round 4: RB Ray Davis, Kentucky, No. 128

Round 5: C/G Sedrick Van Pran-Granger, Georgia, No. 141 (from Panthers)

Round 5: LB Edefuan Ulofoshio, Washington, No. 160 (from Packers)

Round 5: DE Javon Solomon, Troy, No. 168

Round 6: T Tylan Grable, UCF, No. 204

Round 6: CB Daequan Hardy, Penn State, No. 219

Round 7: G Travis Clayton, International Player Pathway, No. 221 (from Chiefs)

 

2023 Draft 

Round 1, Pick 25: Dalton Kincaid, TE, Utah

Round 2, Pick 59: O'Cyrus Torrence, G, Florida

Round 3, Pick 91: Dorian Williams, LB, Tulane

Round 5, Pick 150: Justin Shorter, WR, Florida

Round 7, Pick 230: Nick Broeker, G, Ole Miss

Round 7, Pick 252: Alex Austin, DB, Oregon State

 

2025 Contract extensions

Josh Allen: Signed a six-year, $330 million contract.

Khalil Shakir: Received a contract extension.

Terrel Bernard: Received a contract extension.

Greg Rousseau: Signed a four-year extension.

Christian Benford: Received an extension. 

 

2025 Free agent signings

Joey Bosa: Signed a one-year deal.

Larry Ogunjobi: Signed a one-year deal.

Joshua Palmer: Signed a three-year contract.

Darrick Forrest: Signed a contract.

Laviska Shenault: Signed a contract.

Dane Jackson: Signed a one-year deal.

Kendrick Green: Signed a one-year deal.

Reggie Gilliam: Re-signed to a one-year deal.

Damar Hamlin: Re-signed to a one-year deal. 

 

2024 Extensions

Taron Johnson: Signed a three-year, $31 million contract extension.

DaQuan Jones: Re-signed on a two-year, $16 million deal.

Dion Dawkins: Signed a three-year, $60.5 million contract extension.

Taylor Rapp: Re-signed on a three-year deal.

Will Clapp: Signed a one-year deal.

Quintin Morris: Re-signed to a one-year deal. 

 

2024 Signings

Curtis Samuel: Signed a three-year, $24 million contract.

Casey Toohill: Signed a one-year contract.

Mike Edwards: Signed a one-year contract.

Mack Hollins: Signed a one-year contract.

Nicholas Morrow: Signed a one-year contract.

Mitchell Trubisky: Signed a two-year contract.

David Edwards: Signed a two-year contract. 

 

2023 Signings

Signed QB Kyle Allen: Added a new backup quarterback.

Signed G Connor McGovern:

Signed WR Deonte Harty: 

Signed WR Trent Sherfield: 

Signed G David Edwards: 

Signed OT David Quessenberry: 

Re-signed OL Ike Boetger: 

 

Not every draft pick that you make is going to be a starter - especially when you get to the Day 3 picks.  If those guys are productive depth players you can argue it’s a decent pick.  
 

But the trends that you identified here are valid.  Beane’s just not getting enough return on his “premium” draft picks.  It goes back to his failure at struggling to add high end talent to surround Josh

[bubba2018]

that 24 draft is so f ing brutal🤣🤣

[Governor]

8 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

Ozzie Newsome before Flacco is the only one that comes to mind. 2001 Ravens had the best defense since the 85 Bears. 

Some say 49ers are elite.

[finn]

18 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

One thing I dont think can be argued is were not getting getting 19 million of production from Samuel and Palmer.  Thats a lot of buck and not much bang.   Dont worry Brandon thinks were solid.

I'm always combining the salaries of Beane's free agent signings and dreaming about the one player he could have signed. Same with draft picks, e.g., give up that second rounder AND a third to move up in WR-rich draft. 

 

I think there's a reasonable chance the Bills could turn the season around, but (imho) it would take some bold moves. Trade what it takes--first-round pick included) for a real WR, like Diggs in his prime. Fire or demote Brady and replace him with someone who has some ideas. And just hope (what else can you do?) that Hairston, Hoecht, Obiwan, a rapidly improving Walker, AND--you need still more!--a returning Strong and a revelation at safety in Hancock will bring the defense up to championship level. Beane has been bold at times, and McDermott did fire Dorsey, so maybe?