3rd round draft pick snap counts

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Dude - you can not be this poor of a fan overall right - you are trolling - you have to be.

 

2021 - Spencer Brown

2022 - James Cook

2022 - Terrel Bernard

2023 - Torrance

2024 - Coleman

2024 - Bishop

 

Yep - every year they just can’t draft anyone in the 2nd and 3rd round!

 

Do you know what most of them have in common - most of them sat and got few snaps other than special teams as rookies - they were given a chance to learn and grow physically and mentally and they slid in full by year 2.  Some like Torrance fit the need and took right off, but others like Brown needed that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides Allen, Barnes trade ups have not been successful IMO.  We would of been batter staying pat, and keeping our draft picks imo.  There is an opportunity cost that should be factored in.

 

Beane traded up for Elam, Dalton, Edmunds, Sanders.  All one has to do is revisit those drafts, look how they fell, and you can see there was a good player at that position in our original draft slot, and we to keep all of our picks.  

Edited Wednesday at 10:20 AM by Pete

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

We’re such a good FO with our late round picks. It’s actually very impressive and also maddening because they SUCK (outside of cook) in the 2nd/3rd round. I wish they’d just get playmakers early. Trading up was fine but what if you did it for Luther Burden to help Josh out instead of another who cares DT, 2 years in a row Carter over Troy Franklin and Sanders over Burden. I honestly believe it’s only because we have a defensive HC that we keep going to this well early in the draft while neglecting the WR position by just throwing cash at scrubs who haven’t done anything in league like Samuel and Palmer. 

 

Let’s add to it and go back further:

2018 Harrison Phillips - still in the league

2019 Cody Ford - still starting in the league

2019 Singletary - still in the legue

2019 Dawson Knox

2020 AJ 

2020 Zack Moss - was still starting last year until injury 

2021 - Basham - still in NFL, but as backup 

 

Looks to me like Beane has made picks that both the Bills and NFL think can play with the short life of players.

 

You can disagree with the picks, but Damn he seems to find guys that play and have a role - they may not be all pros, but they all just keep making NFL rosters and starting for teams across the league.

 

 

 

[uticaclub]

Missing on 3rd round picks you trade up for happens; doing it two years in a row shouldn’t.

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Let’s add to it and go back further:

2018 Harrison Phillips - still in the league

2019 Cody Ford - still starting in the league

2019 Singletary - still in the legue

2019 Dawson Knox

2020 AJ 

2020 Zack Moss - was still starting last year until injury 

2021 - Basham - still in NFL, but as backup 

 

Looks to me like Beane has made picks that both the Bills and NFL think can play with the short life of players.

 

You can disagree with the picks, but Damn he seems to find guys that play and have a role - they may not be all pros, but they all just keep making NFL rosters and starting for teams across the league.

 

 

 

“Still in the league” is a low standard

Edited Wednesday at 10:24 AM by uticaclub

[NeverOutNick]

23 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Dude - you can not be this poor of a fan overall right - you are trolling - you have to be.

 

2021 - Spencer Brown

2022 - James Cook

2022 - Terrel Bernard

2023 - Torrance

2024 - Coleman

2024 - Bishop

 

Yep - every year they just can’t draft anyone in the 2nd and 3rd round!

 

Do you know what most of them have in common - most of them sat and got few snaps other than special teams as rookies - they were given a chance to learn and grow physically and mentally and they slid in full by year 2.  Some like Torrance fit the need and took right off, but others like Brown needed that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok let’s play this game:

 

2019 - Cody Ford (2nd)

2020 - AJ epenesa (2nd) and Zach Moss (3rd)

2021 - Carlos Basham (2nd)

2022 - Elam was a first rounder my B

2023 - Dorian Williams (3rd)

2024 - Bishop (2nd), Carter (3rd)

2025 - Sanders (2nd), Jackson (3rd)

 

Thats A LOT of misses early on the defensive side of the ball. They’ve been bailed out somewhat by doing well later in the draft but when you consistently pass on weapons for Josh in order to beef up the D with lackluster talent it’s a problem. 
 

Maybe I’m a bit salty because the last couple years we either traded up for another D tackle instead for a WR for Josh (Luther Burden) or in what was regarded to be the best WR draft class in a decade we trade back for Coleman instead of up for BJT and then bypass Troy Franklin for buttoned up but can’t play Dwayne Carter. 
 

 

I loved the interception by Bishop and he is trending in the right direction but was he worth a 2nd round pick? I guess we’ll see. 
 

Basically, I’m saying we invest too much in the draft on D line misses in the early rounds. 

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, Pete said:

Besides Allen, Barnes trade ups have not been successful IMO.  We would of been batter staying pat, and keeping our draft picks imo.  There is an opportunity cost that should be factored in.

 

Beane traded up for Elam, Dalton, Edmunds, Sanders.  All one has to do is revisit those drafts, look how they fell, and you can see there was a good player at that position in our original draft slot, and we to keep all of our picks.  

 

That is another discussion that could be visited, but at the same time - let’s say they don’t get Dalton - the guys after him - none are skill players and most not starters the next - the next offensive guys were the next group of TEs.

 

Edmunds trade up - again we are talking about a 4 year starter here and a guy still starting in the league.  There are a lot of good players and many that are out of the league.  I would argue against it being not successful.

 

Elam did not work - not much more to say, but the jury is still out on Sanders.

[NeverOutNick]

23 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Let’s add to it and go back further:

2018 Harrison Phillips - still in the league

2019 Cody Ford - still starting in the league

2019 Singletary - still in the legue

2019 Dawson Knox

2020 AJ 

2020 Zack Moss - was still starting last year until injury 

2021 - Basham - still in NFL, but as backup 

 

Looks to me like Beane has made picks that both the Bills and NFL think can play with the short life of players.

 

You can disagree with the picks, but Damn he seems to find guys that play and have a role - they may not be all pros, but they all just keep making NFL rosters and starting for teams across the league.

 

 

 

Being in the league still doesn’t mean you were worth a top 100 pick.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

It’s early, but trading up for Sanders in the 2nd and then selecting Landon in the 3rd are not looking good picks. Hopefully, a light bulb turns on for both soon. 

It takes time and all these reps will help Sanders...The Bills already know what they have in Solomon and that ceiling is very low....they need to play Jackson and find out what he can do. 

[FireChans]

29 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Let’s add to it and go back further:

2018 Harrison Phillips - still in the league

2019 Cody Ford - still starting in the league

2019 Singletary - still in the legue

2019 Dawson Knox

2020 AJ 

2020 Zack Moss - was still starting last year until injury 

2021 - Basham - still in NFL, but as backup 

 

Looks to me like Beane has made picks that both the Bills and NFL think can play with the short life of players.

 

You can disagree with the picks, but Damn he seems to find guys that play and have a role - they may not be all pros, but they all just keep making NFL rosters and starting for teams across the league.

 

 

 

Ah yes, those successful picks Boogie and Big Cody who were traded for peanuts before their rookie deal was even finished. 

[todd]

Good lord, people! You're complaining about a 3rd round pick after 4 games into the season! Buffalo tries to develop players, and there are examples of players taking a while to get going in the Bills system and then hitting their stride. 4 GAMES INTO THE SEASON FOR A 3RD ROUND ROOKIE. Do you have any concept regarding how silly this whole cluster of a conversation sounds? It's like people search for something to complain about with a 4-0 team because they aren't happy unless they are b-wording about something. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

You had me until you said AJ has developed...

 

 

AJE played well Sunday. 

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Ok let’s play this game:

 

2019 - Cody Ford (2nd)

2020 - AJ epenesa (2nd) and Zach Moss (3rd)

2021 - Carlos Basham (2nd)

2022 - Elam was a first rounder my B

2023 - Dorian Williams (3rd)

2024 - Bishop (2nd), Carter (3rd)

2025 - Sanders (2nd), Jackson (3rd)

 

Thats A LOT of misses early on the defensive side of the ball. They’ve been bailed out somewhat by doing well later in the draft but when you consistently pass on weapons for Josh in order to beef up the D with lackluster talent it’s a problem. 
 

Maybe I’m a bit salty because the last couple years we either traded up for another D tackle instead for a WR for Josh (Luther Burden) or in what was regarded to be the best WR draft class in a decade we trade back for Coleman instead of up for BJT and then bypass Troy Franklin for buttoned up but can’t play Dwayne Carter. 
 

 

I loved the interception by Bishop and he is trending in the right direction but was he worth a 2nd round pick? I guess we’ll see. 
 

Basically, I’m saying we invest too much in the draft on D line misses in the early rounds. 

 

Eight premium (day 1 or 2) picks in eight drafts on the defensive line by Brandon Beane. Only the two first rounders - Oliver and Groot are starters or have ever been proper starters. He has invested SIX day two picks on defensive linemen and from the four that happened before this past draft he has got just four years of rotational backup play from Harrison Phillips and now six years of situational pass rushing from AJE. 

 

It's the area of the roster where his return on investment is worst IMO and that's just the draft.... when you consider FA as well it is even more stark! But hey, he will "never apologise" for investing in the defensive line. 

[uticaclub]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

AJE played well Sunday. 

On pace for another 4 sack season, let’s see if he can top his career high of 6.5

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Eight premium (day 1 or 2) picks in eight drafts on the defensive line by Brandon Beane. Only the two first rounders - Oliver and Groot are starters or have ever been proper starters. He has invested SIX day two picks on defensive linemen and from the four that happened before this past draft he has got just four years of rotational backup play from Harrison Phillips and now six years of situational pass rushing from AJE. 

 

It's the area of the roster where his return on investment is worst IMO and that's just the draft.... when you consider FA as well it is even more stark! But hey, he will "never apologise" for investing in the defensive line. 

Harrison Phillips missed his 2nd year with an injury, 3rd year was pretty much a rehab year & he played pretty well to earn the contract with the Vikings in his 4th year

Edited Wednesday at 11:33 AM by uticaclub

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

On pace for another 4 sack season, let’s see if he can top his career high of 6.5

Harrison Phillips missed his 2nd year with an injury, 3rd year was pretty much a rehab year & he played pretty well to earn the contract with the Vikings in his 4th year

 

Yea, he really only got three years of backup level play from Phillips but I'm not blaming Beane for the injury. These things can't be helped. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

But what are their adjusted snap counts over expected scaled back to account for inflation?

[TFBillsfan]

9 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

One of the things we have to factor is who is being activated in his place, and right now that's Solomon. By all accounts, Solomon has been horrible. I don't see how Landon Jackson can by any worst, and if he is, even at this early juncture, it's concerning.

I'm not one that cares about being right, especially when it comes to the Bills. I rather be wrong. That being said, Landon looked extremely stiff in College. Not sure how that gets better in the NFL. He will need to win with sheer size, power, and technique, if he's going to succeed. 

When Hoecht is back, I wonder if Solomon will be released?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Let's be real - Landon Jackson wasn't known as some project player.  He was a first team All-SEC DE.  His not being able to crack the rotation behind Javon Solomon means something has disappointed the team about his development.  Bear in mind Hoecht is also coming back so if that unit stays healthy I'm guessing we don't see him play meaningful snaps til next year.

[TH3]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

This is a corollary to the Landon Jackson thread so feel free to merge.  

I looked at the top 19 picks in the 3rd round. I don't have much of a life but I do want to get in the workshop tonight so I just did the top half.  That is 19 picks as there were 38 picks.  Bills drafted Landon Jackson with the 8th pick in the 3rd round so just about in the middle of this sample.  

See the table below. These numbers represent snap count percentage for week 4.  Data source link below.  I have no idea how accurate it is. 

https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=ARI&year=2025&type=snap-counts

Only two other players have been inactive all four games and only one other has been a healthy scratch - a 49ers LB.  The Titans WR has been injured but not on IR.  

Two had season ending injuries in camp and are on IR.

Two had no snaps in week 4 but had snaps in 2 of 4 games. All the others that played in week 4 also played in weeks 1-3.

  

 

 

It is data and you can judge it however you want.  There is a mix of good and bad teams.  There is a mix of positions. 

My take is that it is reasonable to expect a 3rd round pick that is not injured to be dressing on game day and playing in some capacity.  

 

What was your choice for the Bills  third round pick…. Sheesh….how many angles can people take to look at just one of the thousands of decisions made over the course of a year at 1bd and imply poor management 

 

ffs the are one of the best teams in the keauge

[TFBillsfan]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

It takes time and all these reps will help Sanders...The Bills already know what they have in Solomon and that ceiling is very low....they need to play Jackson and find out what he can do. 

It will be interesting to see if Sanders snap counts go down once they have their full group (Jones, Ed, Oji, Walker) back.

[SoTier]

Who the hell cares that a third round draft pick was inactive in the first four games of his rookie season?????

 

The angst of the OP and other like-minded posters over Jackson's being inactive in the Bills first four games is more a reflection of those posters' dislike of the Bills FO and coaching staff than reality.   They obviously can't find anything even slightly more significant than obscure stats.

 

Reality is that only about 40-50% of 3rd round picks play in the NFL for three or more years.

Reality is that only  about 16% of third rounders become quality NFL starters long term.   That means that most third rounders are going to be role players, backups or special teamers.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:28 PM by SoTier

[dorquemada]

28 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

Let's be real - Landon Jackson wasn't known as some project player.  He was a first team All-SEC DE.  His not being able to crack the rotation behind Javon Solomon means something has disappointed the team about his development.  Bear in mind Hoecht is also coming back so if that unit stays healthy I'm guessing we don't see him play meaningful snaps til next year.

 

Absolute monster in college but so was Aaaaaarrrrrron Maybin.  I watched him in the SEC and convinced myself he would be great in the NFL, and who knows maybe he will be but early returns looks like another project