Is Hawes in the process of surpassing Knox as TE2??

[Alphadawg7]

17 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Jackson Hawes will not replace Dawson Knox. They play the same position in name only. Hawes is essentially a 6th Offensive Lineman who can occasionally leave the line of scrimmage and get open for a catch here or there (currently 1 a game). But he's not a route runner or separator and you don't want him to be doing Knox's job because you want his elite blocking utilized.

 

Hawes took more snaps than Knox did yesterday (31-24). So in that sense, he kind of already is TE2. But that's because we've been doing a lot more running and we're using him to block.

 

When the time comes for Knox to go, they aren't going to have Hawes running routes like Knox. His role will stay the same and they'll get another pass catcher in here.

 

You love to see Hawes make an occasional play here or there. But in no way should he not be doing what he's Elite at to be doing Knox's job. Knox is a Pass Catcher first and a Blocker second. Hawes is a Blocker first and a Pass Catcher second. And that shouldn't change.

While you are not wrong in terms of Knox brings more to the table in terms of athletic receiver…what you are missing is that Knox doesn’t play that role anymore, Kincaid does.  Knox is much more of a blocking TE than he is a receiving TE since Kincaid got here.

 

There was this idea of a 2 TE pass attack when we drafted Kincaid after extending Knox with a hefty contract.  But the reality is we don’t really run that kind of offense like the Pats did when they had Gronk and Hernandez.  Knox has become more of a blocker, not just in the run game, but in pass protection and through routes where the play is designed to go elsewhere and he’s clearing out and blocking for the YAC.  
 

And this is where Hawes vs Knox gets interesting because Hawes is already a better blocker, not a knock on Knox, but Hawes is just an excellent blocker already.  And now Hawes is showing good feel and the ability to make plays when his number is called as a receiver.

 

I agree Knox is a top 15-18 TE in the league, and honestly if he started full time as a more featured TE somewhere, he would probably be top 10.  But make no mistake about it, the roles Knox plays here right now is a bit redundant with what Hawes does as well, and Hawes is already better at the core of each of their jobs which is blocking.  And all one has to do is track their snap counts to see the coaches know this too.

 

I like Knox, got nothing against him, but IMHO his future on this team is rapidly becoming expendable.  And that doesn’t mean he will be gone, but it does mean his future isn’t clear, and in any scenario where he remains here, his contract will have to look a lot different.

[Scott7975]

17 hours ago, Special K said:

The Bills didn't run the 3 TE sets too much in the game, and it seemed to me there was a lot of Kincaid and Hawes in the 2 TE sets.

 

Hawes comp seems to be a Knox who can actually catch the ball when thrown to him.

 

If Hawes continues to develop above expectations, there is a high chance Knox will be a Cap Casualty in the Off-season...... let's enjoy the 3 TE sets while they last.....

 

Until he drops a pass that ends a drive or could have been a TD. Then everyone will be all over him. Knox does have bad hands though. The guy can either make the most clutch catch or he could drop the most routine pass. You just never know.

[Scott7975]

8 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The whole narrative about Knox being kept because he is Josh 's buddy is over-blown.

 

Im not saying they are going to get rid of Knox or even just redo his contract but that part is true. Gabe Davis was also Josh's buddy.

[BuffaloBillyG]

I think Hawes is going to push Joe Brady into using even more 3 TE sets. And with our roster of WRs that may actually be a good thing. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Knox is definitely a glue guy, but a bad contract only gets so far. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

While you are not wrong in terms of Knox brings more to the table in terms of athletic receiver…what you are missing is that Knox doesn’t play that role anymore, Kincaid does.  Knox is much more of a blocking TE than he is a receiving TE since Kincaid got here.

 

There was this idea of a 2 TE pass attack when we drafted Kincaid after extending Knox with a hefty contract.  But the reality is we don’t really run that kind of offense like the Pats did when they had Gronk and Hernandez.  Knox has become more of a blocker, not just in the run game, but in pass protection and through routes where the play is designed to go elsewhere and he’s clearing out and blocking for the YAC.  
 

And this is where Hawes vs Knox gets interesting because Hawes is already a better blocker, not a knock on Knox, but Hawes is just an excellent blocker already.  And now Hawes is showing good feel and the ability to make plays when his number is called as a receiver.

 

I agree Knox is a top 15-18 TE in the league, and honestly if he started full time as a more featured TE somewhere, he would probably be top 10.  But make no mistake about it, the roles Knox plays here right now is a bit redundant with what Hawes does as well, and Hawes is already better at the core of each of their jobs which is blocking.  And all one has to do is track their snap counts to see the coaches know this too.

 

I like Knox, got nothing against him, but IMHO his future on this team is rapidly becoming expendable.  And that doesn’t mean he will be gone, but it does mean his future isn’t clear, and in any scenario where he remains here, his contract will have to look a lot different.

I think something else complicates it even further. Somehow, Dalton Kincaid became a pretty solid blocker as well. No, he's not as good as Hawes but he's no longer that far behind Knox IMO. And he adds more as a receiver than Knox. It's harder to take him off the field than it used to be even on running plays.

[skibum]

I just want to say that Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid, and Jackson Hawes are all great country singer names. 

[harmonkillebrew]

But has Hawes and the 3 TE set replaced our Andersen/ 6 OL package?  seeing a lot less of that it seems to me

[JaCrispy]

13 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Knox is 'Mr. Brightside'. He's not going anywhere. Don't overlook the chemistry that Beane has built into this team. Knox is an entrenched 'Allen guy',  

They always carry 3 TEs anyway. No great need to make changes at that position quite yet.

When Kincaid is up for a contract in a couple of years that may change. They'll probably want to re-sign him. By that time Knox will be 30-ish, and still have some value on the trade market. 

I don't know how they manage their cap, but they may limit how much they want to allot to that position group. 

But, to answer the OP, I think Hawes could eventually be TE 1 or TE 2. We haven't seen enough targets to him yet to truly evaluate his value as a pass catcher/route runner.

Right now, Hawes is a great addition to a group of tenacious blockers helping James Cook to be a weekly threat. I'm good with that for now.

 

Yeah- Knox is “Mr. Bright side” because he knows he’s swindling the Bills out of millions…

 

Sorry, but the Bills are not paying Knox to be post game entertainment…They are paying him to be a top 5 TE, and he is nowhere close.

[BearNorth]

I'm old enough to remember the K-Gun, where the K was TE Keith McKellar.  Perhaps the three TE set will be the J-Gun with Josh, James, and Jackson.

 

Edited October 1 by BearNorth

[djp14150]

22 hours ago, Special K said:

The Bills didn't run the 3 TE sets too much in the game, and it seemed to me there was a lot of Kincaid and Hawes in the 2 TE sets.

 

Hawes comp seems to be a Knox who can actually catch the ball when thrown to him.

 

If Hawes continues to develop above expectations, there is a high chance Knox will be a Cap Casualty in the Off-season...... let's enjoy the 3 TE sets while they last.....

I don’t know his contract, but I think Knox is gone in 2026 if he’s not a lot of dead weight if cut. He stays if there is little space created when cutting him.

[BuffBillsForLife]

Knox isn't going anywhere, he's Josh's best friend on the team and is a perfectly servicable (if overpaid) TE2 who does everything well enough.

[DCofNC]

22 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Jackson Hawes will not replace Dawson Knox. They play the same position in name only. Hawes is essentially a 6th Offensive Lineman who can occasionally leave the line of scrimmage and get open for a catch here or there (currently 1 a game). But he's not a route runner or separator and you don't want him to be doing Knox's job because you want his elite blocking utilized.

 

Hawes took more snaps than Knox did yesterday (31-24). So in that sense, he kind of already is TE2. But that's because we've been doing a lot more running and we're using him to block.

 

When the time comes for Knox to go, they aren't going to have Hawes running routes like Knox. His role will stay the same and they'll get another pass catcher in here.

 

You love to see Hawes make an occasional play here or there. But in no way should he not be doing what he's Elite at to be doing Knox's job. Knox is a Pass Catcher first and a Blocker second. Hawes is a Blocker first and a Pass Catcher second. And that shouldn't change.

Knox was a blocker in college and still is primarily a blocker now, his inconsistency as a receiver is why they drafted Kincaid.  Knox is an over priced #2/3 TE that Bills fans have delusions about being worth his contract.  His production is easily replaceable by any journeyman TE.  He should be in the 4M a year TE camp, instead Beane grossly overpaid him, based on what seemed like it was going to be his break out year and he’s done nothing more since. 
 

Hawes is out producing him already, as a 5th round pick.   Knox is a FA or takes a MAJOR pay cut to be in Buffalo next year.

[Chandler#81]

On 9/30/2025 at 5:05 AM, GunnerBill said:

Hawes outsnapped all other tight ends in this game with 31. Knox was second with 24. Kincaid 22. 

 

For the season Knox leads tight end snaps with 145, Kincaid 134, Hawes 108. 

 

Hawes has earned his snaps and Kincaid has shown some improvements as a blocker but Knox is still the guy that gives the Bills the most flexibility when he is on the field. He remains the most "two-way" of the tight ends. That's why he is continuing to get snaps. 

 

I shouldn't shock anyone. There is no way he plays on his 2026 number. So he is either cut before then or he renegotiates, extends and takes a pay cut. 

Worth noting is Kincaid blocked 3 Saints on Shakir’s TD. He blasted the 1st guy which allow Shakir to scoot behind him then shouldered 2 others away as they sped to endzone. Nothing domineering but very effective!

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Worth noting is Kincaid blocked 3 Saints on Shakir’s TD. He blasted the 1st guy which allow Shakir to scoot behind him then shouldered 2 others away as they sped to endzone. Nothing domineering but very effective!

 

He is definitely better than he was coming out. 

[chris heff]

Good article about Hawes I. Tha Athletic.

 

”This isn’t to say that Hawes will make Knox and Kincaid obsolete on offense in 2025, or maybe even 2026. The Bills will continue to use all three through a game because, to this point, it’s one of their most significant advantages over defenses in 2025. But it’s fair to wonder if Hawes, should this strong play continue, is the future of the tight end position in Buffalo past 2025. He is a potential high-percentage snap tight end within the next three years, given his effectiveness in both phases of the game and the advantage he potentially gives them. He’s already their best blocking tight end, and it isn’t close. He can go toe to toe with any positional player and win the rep, whether it’s a defensive end, linebacker or safety. He has shown he can be a plus in the passing game, converting all four targets for a reception, two of which went for over ten yards.”

[Einstein's Dog]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I like Knox, got nothing against him, but IMHO his future on this team is rapidly becoming expendable.  And that doesn’t mean he will be gone, but it does mean his future isn’t clear, and in any scenario where he remains here, his contract will have to look a lot different.

I don't mean to single you out Alpha, but I'm seeing this said quite a bit - Knox becoming expendable.  No, he should not be considered expendable.

 

The new NFL season is extremely long, relatively speaking, 17 regular season games and then more playoff games.  Above average depth, especially in high risk injury positions, should no longer be considered a luxury.

 

Even the reduced wear and tear in game, the reduced snap counts can help contribute to a healthier, better, overall TE group. 

 

The Bills should not be looking to move on from Knox, but instead getting his salary in line with the market.  And I believe Beane can and will do that.

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, chris heff said:

Good article about Hawes I. Tha Athletic.

 

”This isn’t to say that Hawes will make Knox and Kincaid obsolete on offense in 2025, or maybe even 2026. The Bills will continue to use all three through a game because, to this point, it’s one of their most significant advantages over defenses in 2025. But it’s fair to wonder if Hawes, should this strong play continue, is the future of the tight end position in Buffalo past 2025. He is a potential high-percentage snap tight end within the next three years, given his effectiveness in both phases of the game and the advantage he potentially gives them. He’s already their best blocking tight end, and it isn’t close. He can go toe to toe with any positional player and win the rep, whether it’s a defensive end, linebacker or safety. He has shown he can be a plus in the passing game, converting all four targets for a reception, two of which went for over ten yards.”

"effectiveness in both phases of the game"

 

He has 4 catches in 4 games...he runs a 4.8...he caught like 50 passes over 41 games in college for like 500 yards. Not sure why everyone is so infatuated by this guy. I am happy to see a late round pick able to contribute like he has. But I am not ready to say he is the Bills TE of the future. I am fine him just being a contributor like he has. 

[chris heff]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

"effectiveness in both phases of the game"

 

He has 4 catches in 4 games...he runs a 4.8...he caught like 50 passes over 41 games in college for like 500 yards. Not sure why everyone is so infatuated by this guy. I am happy to see a late round pick able to contribute like he has. But I am not ready to say he is the Bills TE of the future. I am fine him just being a contributor like he has. 

Neither is Buscaglia, if you read the whole article, the interesting part is when the Bills go heavy they use Hawes and not a lineman. It gives the Bills options and can be a problem for opposing defenses.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't mean to single you out Alpha, but I'm seeing this said quite a bit - Knox becoming expendable.  No, he should not be considered expendable.

 

The new NFL season is extremely long, relatively speaking, 17 regular season games and then more playoff games.  Above average depth, especially in high risk injury positions, should no longer be considered a luxury.

 

Even the reduced wear and tear in game, the reduced snap counts can help contribute to a healthier, better, overall TE group. 

 

The Bills should not be looking to move on from Knox, but instead getting his salary in line with the market.  And I believe Beane can and will do that.

 

I get what you are saying, and as I said in my post, I like Knox and I think if he was starting he would be a top 15 TE elsewhere.  When I say "expendable" I am strictly talking about his role on the team - because like it or not, the role has been diminished to a role that can be filled by TE's who are not as good as of an all around player he is because his role is substantially more about blocking than being a weapon.  That opens up the door for a lot more players who can fill that role and for a lot cheaper.  

 

I don't "want" to move on from Knox, but salary for a TE in his existing type of role is a fraction of what he makes now.  Would he be willing to be paid like a TE3 to stay? I mean Hawes is already starting to out snap him because Hawes is an even better blocker than Knox is right now, and honestly might already be one of the best blocking TE's in the game right now, and only going to get better.  

 

Ultimately, Knox's future here will be up to him and what he can stomach to get paid on a significantly reduced contract.  End of the day though, a formation with Kincaid and Knox isn't much different than a formation with Kincaid and Hawes in it right now.   As much as I, and many people, would like to keep Knox - the "need" for him is not what it was prior to drafting Hawes and his future here is going to be a numbers game on what the FO is willing to pay for him to remain in a role that now has further diminished after already getting diminished since drafting Kincaid.