The timeouts

[Success]

Sorry if there is something out there already on this - I didn't see it discussed.

 

Timeouts in a close game are so important. It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

I was watching where I couldn't hear the audio - were there any explanations for why the TO's were taken?

 

[Breakout Squad]

They were indeed discussed. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

Sorry if there is something out there already on this - I didn't see it discussed.

 

Timeouts in a close game are so important. It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

I was watching where I couldn't hear the audio - were there any explanations for why the TO's were taken?

 

 

The second one was easy to explain, the Bills only had 10 men on the field on NO 2 point conversion attempt.  

 

The first one, seemed McD was arguing that NO made substitutions and the refs didn't give the Bills time to make subs after that so they couldn't get the player off the field in time.  How legit Mcd's point was, hard to tell?

 

I will say it seems opponents must be seeing something on film that shows the Bills are slow to line up as this is the 2nd week now the other team ran plays fast before the defense was set.

[Simon]

33 minutes ago, Success said:

It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

Agreed that he panicked on the first one, although I doubt he was legitimately worried he was going to need a full set of TO's trailing late.

 

The second one changed the scoreboard and was a good call, imo.

The Saints showed them something they hadn't seen and weren't ready for AND they only had 10 guys on the field.

That was about to be a successful 2 pt conversion if he doesn't call it and htey ended up getting the stop afterwards.

I'll trade a TO for points any time in the game, particularly in the 2nd half.

[gonzo1105]

We looked like a team that had too much of a good time with 10 days off. Its funny we have never lost with McDermott coming off of a bye but I have never thought we were particularly impressive in those games when coming off of the bye. I always feel like we're sloppy but always find a way to win in the end off of a bye and essentially thats what we were coming off of here. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Sorry if there is something out there already on this - I didn't see it discussed.

 

Timeouts in a close game are so important. It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

I was watching where I couldn't hear the audio - were there any explanations for why the TO's were taken?

 

 

McDermott said he expected them to be able to be given time to substitute like normal but it didn't happen for whatever reason on the first one.

 

On the 2 point conversion, it absolutely did matter because they only had 10 defenders on the field 

Edited Monday at 02:18 AM by Big Turk

[Dr.Sack]

Great use of TOs. Better to help them influence a game then let bad stuff happen when a TO could prevent it. Nothing worse than having 3 TOs late down 2 scores. 

[GolfandBills]

Today’s game management was unacceptable 

[Olliemets]

1 hour ago, GolfandBills said:

Today’s game management was unacceptable 

I went today...then drove 6 hours post game back to Westchester. Wasn't on the boards as I was there. So haven't drilled in to the chatter here yet

 

I am still mystified about the clock management and play calls near end of game. Yes Bills were up by 2 scores but ...  Had a chance to run a running play, get it down to 2 minute warning, then kick the FG after the 2 minute warning.  Why ??  Bothered me the entire way down.

 

This game had "Any Given Sunday" written all over it. Would have sucked to make that drive after a loss.

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, Success said:

Sorry if there is something out there already on this - I didn't see it discussed.

 

Timeouts in a close game are so important. It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

I was watching where I couldn't hear the audio - were there any explanations for why the TO's were taken?

 

 

if you only have 10 guys on the field or you have 12 guys teams need to call time out to prevent being disadvantaged or have a penalty called.

 

undervthevrules, if the offense makes a player change, the defense is supposed to be allowed to respond.  Thsts why you see a zebra standing over the ball and not allowing a snap to occur because the defense needs to be allowed to substitute.  A time out was called because the official blew this when buffalo wasn’t allowed to properly sub personnel if they changed personnel.

[ticketssince61]

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

if you only have 10 guys on the field or you have 12 guys teams need to call time out to prevent being disadvantaged or have a penalty called.

 

 

 

Sometimes a timeout is worth more than 5 yards - this is one aspect that analytics or coaches do NOT consider

 

When there is a potential delay of game, QB's frequently call time out. 

 

Is that there much of a difference between e.g. a 2nd and 3 and a 2nd and 8 to waste a timeout that can be game altering at the end

 

[Livinginthepast]

The penalty given when the offense snaps the ball and a defensive player who is exiting the field on defense has one foot in the field of play seems a little ridiculous to me. I mean how many times must the players etc on the sidelines accidentally step their toes on the field during a live play technically doing the same thing. Should the NFL refs / replay assist flag those too? 

Edited Monday at 01:15 PM by Livinginthepast

[Wraith]

6 hours ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

Sometimes a timeout is worth more than 5 yards - this is one aspect that analytics or coaches do NOT consider

 

Oh please. Analytics absolutely know how to quantify the value of a time out and coaches are well aware of that value. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

12 hours ago, Success said:

Sorry if there is something out there already on this - I didn't see it discussed.

 

Timeouts in a close game are so important. It seemed like the one we called w/ a player running off the field was just panic, and the 2-point conversion one was unnecessary.

 

I was watching where I couldn't hear the audio - were there any explanations for why the TO's were taken?

 

Agree. It was bad. But it seems like an outlier. Bills are usually pretty good at saving their TOs.

[GunnerBill]

I think he had to take both of them. The first one was on the refs. The second one was on the coaches. Babich and whichever position coach hadn't got his right group out were the blame but ultimately that is a Head Coach accountability point. McDermott needs to leave his guys in no doubt that is not tolerated. In another situation burning that timeout hurts. 

 

I actually didn't like the timeouts at the end of the half this week. Josh had already used one, so we were down to two. He took the first on a 3rd and 2 with 1:36 left. Didn't like that. I was fine with how they used them last week on 2nd and 5 and then 3rd and 7. But to use one on 3rd and 2 when even if the Saints milk the clock there they have to run a play leaving about 50 seconds on the clock. If you stop them and it's 4th down THEN call a timeout, sure. Otherwise I'd let them play out 3rd and 2 and if they convert, and you can stop them on 1st down and get 2nd and long THEN call timeout. Calling timeout on 3rd and 2 there was not smart clock / situation management. 

Edited Monday at 01:18 PM by GunnerBill

[djp14150]

6 hours ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

Sometimes a timeout is worth more than 5 yards - this is one aspect that analytics or coaches do NOT consider

 

When there is a potential delay of game, QB's frequently call time out. 

 

Is that there much of a difference between e.g. a 2nd and 3 and a 2nd and 8 to waste a timeout that can be game altering at the end

 

 

I did not dig into the nuances of do you use a TO or not and strategy around it.  Usually it’s not a big deal innthe 1st half.

 

for some teams a 3rd and 3 at the opponent 30 vs a 3rd and 8 at opponent 35 coukd mean a FG or not.  Some teams offense aren’t good in 3 rd and more than 5.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The second one was easy to explain, the Bills only had 10 men on the field on NO 2 point conversion attempt.  

 

The first one, seemed McD was arguing that NO made substitutions and the refs didn't give the Bills time to make subs after that so they couldn't get the player off the field in time.  How legit Mcd's point was, hard to tell?

 

I will say it seems opponents must be seeing something on film that shows the Bills are slow to line up as this is the 2nd week now the other team ran plays fast before the defense was set.

 

The refs were not doing well with substitutions, or the play clock, or getting penalties called in a timely fashion.  Didn't feel like it was a well called game by the officials either.  From the stands there were definitely some missed calls on the saints defense.  

[Captain Hindsight]

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but I’m so glad the Bills are good enough to play really poorly for much of the game, be sloppy, bad penalties and still will by 2 scores. The saints had a great game plan and played really well and still lost

 

Nice to be other end of that after 17 years of knowing we lose that game 

[dorquemada]

Watching the Alabama/Georgia game on Saturday was a little like this too - Alabama had to burn timeouts bc they couldnt get the play in properly.  I'll give them a little more slack because it was absolutely deafening there.  DeBoer is similar to McD though, often struggling with seemingly basic concepts like clock management and getting plays in.

[Big Turk]

This is not a normal thing, they usually are exceptional with saving timeouts...McDermott says they are like "gold" in terms of value at the end of games and we typically have all of them.

 

Let's just call it what it is and say it wasn't an exceptionally sharp game in many aspects and that's not the norm.

Edited Monday at 02:09 PM by Big Turk