The Whatabout Lamar Jackson thread

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, boyst said:

Josh doesn't even get a fair shake. People actually argue they like Jalen Hurts because he has taken his team got the super bowl. People hold Mahomes as a better QB still despite Mahomes lapsing. Honest to goodness people argue these things. 

you know about fan bias ? lol

 They all deserve their fandom. All smart enough to make the games worth watching. And the skills to get the surrounding Cast (team) to the playoffs and SB even.

Yea , we do argue these things.

 Allen last 2 ? years has molted and grown/ evolved into a next level player, without losing anything that got him that far !

Bless us Bills Fans 😇

[julian]

When asked how he felt about the MVP results after Allen had won, Lamar said the voters have spoken.

 

 Lamar had an opportunity to tell everybody how amazing Josh’s season was and he was a very deserving winner, but instead he just pointed to the voters.

 

 This is the only thing he’s said/done that rubbed me the wrong way, I’m sure he was upset about not winning the award but not enough awareness to handle the questions with class.

[Sojourner]

39 minutes ago, julian said:

When asked how he felt about the MVP results after Allen had won, Lamar said the voters have spoken.

 

 Lamar had an opportunity to tell everybody how amazing Josh’s season was and he was a very deserving winner, but instead he just pointed to the voters.

 

 This is the only thing he’s said/done that rubbed me the wrong way, I’m sure he was upset about not winning the award but not enough awareness to handle the questions with class.

And meanwhile Josh congratulates all the other nominees and said they were all deserving. 
 

Tells you all you need to know about the inner perspective. 

[TheFunPolice]

Listening to a lot of national sports media the story seems to be Josh is superhuman on a nice team but Lamar has the loaded roster and should get to the Super Bowl this year.

 

A lot more pressure on Lamar than Josh nationally it feels like 

[balln]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/chris-jones-i-think-lamar-jackson-shouldve-won-mvp-last-year#

 

here we go

[RobbRiddick]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/chris-jones-i-think-lamar-jackson-shouldve-won-mvp-last-year#

 

here we go

Jones is just stirring the s*it and also trying in his own way to put more pressure on Lamar for this game.

 

jackson seems like a nice enough guy, but I do think he tries to stat pad every chance he gets. I definitely feel like the MVP awards mean more to him. 
 

 

[NewEra]

On 9/25/2025 at 11:37 AM, Big Turk said:

 

Justin Herbert isn't even in the same conversation. He should probably work on doing better than struggling to score 20 points every game before his name even gets mentioned.  

But that doesn’t mean he isn’t on the verge of entering the elite group.  He’s looked tremendous this season.  Other than running ability, the biggest difference between he and Josh atm is his ability to navigate the pocket.  Josh’s pocket presence is next level nowadays while Herbert still has moments of confusion when the heat is on.  He’s also not working with the Bills OL and has a poor RT

[Sojourner]

On 9/24/2025 at 9:20 PM, boyst said:

Josh doesn't even get a fair shake. People actually argue they like Jalen Hurts because he has taken his team got the super bowl. People hold Mahomes as a better QB still despite Mahomes lapsing. Honest to goodness people argue these things. 

Josh doesn’t get a fair shake? I think Josh is represented fairly. The shortcomings of making the superbowl have never been held against Josh but rather the team and coaching staff in general. Double that down with his MVP and I think he’s treated correctly. Never heard anyone say he’s anything less than one of the three best guys in the game. 
 

Who isn’t giving him fair evaluation?

[folz]

On 9/25/2025 at 1:10 PM, eball said:

I hate to say it because I actually like Lamar (and I’m ashamed of myself for referring to him as Lamont in prior years), but he may have the biggest monkey on his back in the league as a QB.  He has, for better or worse, established himself as a stats padding, electric QB during the regular season that doesn’t really seem to get it done consistently when it really matters.  That has now happened twice in three weeks this season, with what many call the best/deepest roster in the NFL (you know my feelings on that).

 

People rag on Allen for “not winning anything” but he has performed light years ahead of Lamar under the brightest lights (playoffs).  What’s more, you just expect Allen to get over the hump at some point and I don’t feel the same way about Lamar.

 

I won’t fear the Ravens if we face them again in the playoffs because I put my chips behind Allen over Lamar every day.

 

 

I was thinking about the bolded statements. I mean we all know about the playoff losses for Lamar and I wondered how has he done in prime time games (as Josh is well known for playing well in prime time---and prime time games being another type of pressure situation with the whole country watching, depending on who you are playing of course). Turns out, Lamar has the best percentage of any QB in prime time games (with Josh in second)---impressive.

 

Win percentage in Prime Time Games:

Lamar      76.9%

Josh         74.1%

Peyton     73.4%

Goff          71.0%

Mahomes 70.3%

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/josh-allens-primetime-dominance-takes-center-stage-against-dolphins/

 

I didn't expect that, but then...they are still regular season games. (Those stats are from before Josh's win against the Dolphins on Thursday night and Lamar losing on Monday night---though that probably wouldn't affect the stats too much---with the volume of PT games each has played).

 

As to playoffs:

               Record     total Yd/game     total TDs/game     TOs/game

Jackson   3-5              299.2                    1.63                      1.38

Allen         7-6              309.8                    2.46                     0.46

 

(TDs and turnovers seem to make the difference)

 

One other interesting career stat (not just playoffs):

 

               4th Quarter Comebacks         Game Winning Drives

Lamar                  10                                            12

Josh                    14                                            23

 

I like Lamar too (great player, nice guy, he's fun to watch)---wouldn't be unhappy if he were my team's QB (if we didn't have Josh, of course). And I definitely wouldn't call him a choker (sometimes it's his teammates, I'm looking at you Andrews and Henry), or a guy who can't win the big games. But I do think Josh definitely has an edge in that category (even if Josh too has yet to reach the promised land). Lamar and Josh are kind of head-to-head in so many stats/areas. But, I think two stats kind of show that Josh has just been consistently better in crunch time, when the game is on the line---4thQC/GWD (37 to 22 in favor of Josh), and then playoffs TD/TO ratio.

 

So, agreed, I'm putting my chips on Allen too when the game is on the line.

[boyst]

2 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Josh doesn’t get a fair shake? I think Josh is represented fairly. The shortcomings of making the superbowl have never been held against Josh but rather the team and coaching staff in general. Double that down with his MVP and I think he’s treated correctly. Never heard anyone say he’s anything less than one of the three best guys in the game. 
 

Who isn’t giving him fair evaluation?

He has a lot of the media guys who don't want to acknowledge him. Some are turning. Most aren't. Rodney Harrison, Baltimore media, certain folks I can't name them all don't give him the credit he deserves. It's similar to drew brees. 

[Sojourner]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

He has a lot of the media guys who don't want to acknowledge him. Some are turning. Most aren't. Rodney Harrison, Baltimore media, certain folks I can't name them all don't give him the credit he deserves. It's similar to drew brees. 

Thanks for sharing that. Can’t say I’ve heard that personally. Unfortunately in any sport there’s going to be detractors who look at certain things through tunnel vision, seems like it’s certainly “their guy versus ours” if it’s media from that city. Which makes sense. 
 

Rodney Harrison? Don’t remember him ever saying bad things. I vividly remember him crowning Josh as the MVP at once point unless I’m mistaken. 
 

EDIT:  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=470678802718762&vanity=SNFonNBC

Edited September 26 by Sojourner

[SoTier]

On 9/23/2025 at 6:35 PM, 3rdand12 said:

why did you not write White "subculture "

But to the rest of your list ??
 We are all immigrants here. Lets take a second for that and find humble. Each of us .

Now lets get back to football !

 go bills 

 

ps luv ya Do Not 🧡

even worse

 I have to listen to him during games.

Maybe it's the decades of AFC trauma

 But i really want to punch his face

 

Because "white European American" is the dominant culture in the US.   Most Americans of European ethnicity lose most of their ethnic subculture after about 3 generations, unless they happen to live in tight knit communities that keep the culture alive, frequently based on religion.   I think 2 examples are Hasidic Jews and the Amish.

 

 

On 9/25/2025 at 1:10 PM, eball said:

I hate to say it because I actually like Lamar (and I’m ashamed of myself for referring to him as Lamont in prior years), but he may have the biggest monkey on his back in the league as a QB.  He has, for better or worse, established himself as a stats padding, electric QB during the regular season that doesn’t really seem to get it done consistently when it really matters.  That has now happened twice in three weeks this season, with what many call the best/deepest roster in the NFL (you know my feelings on that).

 

People rag on Allen for “not winning anything” but he has performed light years ahead of Lamar under the brightest lights (playoffs).  What’s more, you just expect Allen to get over the hump at some point and I don’t feel the same way about Lamar.

 

I won’t fear the Ravens if we face them again in the playoffs because I put my chips behind Allen over Lamar every day.

 

 

I think that at least part of the Ravens' problems in really important games is their HC.   It seems to me that in playoff games/important games (like Week 1 and Week 3), the Ravens play "tight" like they're so worried about making a mistake that they actually make one or more.   Derrick Henry has fumbled, especially in critical situations, more in his 2 years as a Raven than he had in his entire career.  

[boyst]

34 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Thanks for sharing that. Can’t say I’ve heard that personally. Unfortunately in any sport there’s going to be detractors who look at certain things through tunnel vision, seems like it’s certainly “their guy versus ours” if it’s media from that city. Which makes sense. 
 

Rodney Harrison? Don’t remember him ever saying bad things. I vividly remember him crowning Josh as the MVP at once point unless I’m mistaken. 
 

EDIT:  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=470678802718762&vanity=SNFonNBC

I may have misspoke. It was a former patriot in the media. I'll think it over and remember. But even Chris jones came out today talking like Jackson is the MVP

[BigDingus]

For the first time in forever, I'm rooting for the Chiefs to win.

 

After all the bickering last season, after all the whining about "pity MVP," this off-season, and after saying "SEE! Even Chiefs players know Lamar's the rEaL MVP!" and  sharing Chris Jones saying "Lamar should've won MVP" all over social media the last couple days, I just want to see them hit 1-3.

 

Josh Allen wasn't the "pity MVP." Lamar was the "pity 1st Team All-Pro!"

 

Let Lamar have his 158.3 passer rating while the Ravens miss the playoffs entirely. 

[Buffalo Junction]

59 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Because "white European American" is the dominant culture in the US.   Most Americans of European ethnicity lose most of their ethnic subculture after about 3 generations, unless they happen to live in tight knit communities that keep the culture alive, frequently based on religion.   I think 2 examples are Hasidic Jews and the Amish.  

You can add Midwest and southern/Texan Germans to that equation. That post church Sunday meal is Weiner schnitzel, Kartoffelsalat, etc followed by brandy, schnapps, beer and football. 

[Starr Almighty]

2 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Thanks for sharing that. Can’t say I’ve heard that personally. Unfortunately in any sport there’s going to be detractors who look at certain things through tunnel vision, seems like it’s certainly “their guy versus ours” if it’s media from that city. Which makes sense. 
 

Rodney Harrison? Don’t remember him ever saying bad things. I vividly remember him crowning Josh as the MVP at once point unless I’m mistaken. 
 

EDIT:  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=470678802718762&vanity=SNFonNBC

Rodney hates the Bills not Josh

[BRH]

Other than Brady, who I disliked for the same reason, I’ve never seen another QB who pads stats in blowouts quite like Lamar.  When the Bills get up big, Trubisky comes in.  When the Ravens get up big, Lamar throws even more.

 

We can argue all day whose fault that is.  Maybe Harbaugh figures it’s safer to have Lamar pass with a big lead since the conventional wisdom is to run clock by keeping the ball on the ground.  But McDermott clearly doesn’t think it’s worth exposing Josh to a freak injury when the game is in hand, and Josh goes along with it.  The Harbaughs like to rub it in, and Lamar doesn’t protest too much.

 

But unlike Brady, it’s also pretty hard to think of a single Lamar postseason highlight, or even a game where he played out of his head but the team collapsed around him.  Last year in Buffalo, he threw a pick and fumbled in the first half, but nobody remembers it because of Mark Andrews; in the previous playoff game against us, of course, he threw a pick-six in the end zone while driving for the go-ahead score.

 

Lamar does pretty well in his wildcard games against inferior opponents.  But he has six TD passes, five interceptions, and no rushing TDs in his divisional or better playoff games.  Josh has ten TD passes, one (1) interception, and five rushing TDs in such games — stats that either mirror or exceed his wildcard performances.

 

It’s become fashionable and “correct” to talk about what a great guy Lamar is and how good of a quarterback he’s become.  I’m not going to argue with any of that.  But to say they’re interchangeable…. I don’t buy it.  Josh Allen is the better QB, he deserved last year’s MVP, and he deserved the one before that too.  Period.

 

 

[Governor]

It’s amazing how much the Ravens have catered to Lamar and built a team for him to be successful. Every year he was complaining about not having this or that and every year the Ravens met those demands. Then they go out and get Henry and it’s still the same result. What else can they do for the guy? 
 

This week their podcasters are saying “Lamar can’t do it on his own.”

 

What do you mean he can’t do it on his own? Isn’t he a 2-time (shoulda been 3) MVP? Isn’t that what an MVP is? They assembled a dream team for the guy. It’s pretty absurd if you go back and follow the timeline.

Edited September 27 by Governor

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, Governor said:

It’s amazing how much the Ravens have catered to Lamar and built a team for him to be successful. Every year he was complaining about not having this or that and every year the Ravens met those demands. Then they go out and get Henry and it’s still the same result. What else can they do for the guy? 
 

This week their podcasters are saying “Lamar can’t do it on his own.”

 

What do you mean he can’t do it on his own? Isn’t he a 2-time (shoulda been 3) MVP? Isn’t that what an MVP is? They assembled a dream team for the guy. It’s pretty absurd if you go back and follow the timeline.

 

I think you have put the proverbial horse before the proverbial cart in regards to the Ravens and Lamar.   The Ravens have pretty much been a team with a good/great defense and strong running game for most of their history.  They have never been a team with a great QB.  Flacco was an excellent starting QB but he was never considered an "elite" QB.  When the Ravens realized that Lamar was so good, they made moves to make him a dual threat, including bringing in Greg Roman who had had success with Kaepernick on the Giants.  Lamar has always stressed that he was a passer first, even as a rookie, but Roman's offense had him running the ball to the point that he was getting really beat up.  It's only been the last couple of seasons since the Ravens changed OCs in 2023 to Todd Monken that Lamar has really developed as a NFL passer.  It's only been recently that they also improved their WR group.  Essentially, for the first five years of Lamar's career, the Ravens FO and Harbaugh actually impeded Lamar's development rather than "catered" to him.  

Edited September 27 by SoTier

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think you have put the proverbial horse before the proverbial cart in regards to the Ravens and Lamar.   The Ravens have pretty much been a team with a good/great defense and strong running game for most of their history.  They have never been a team with a great QB.  Flacco was an excellent starting QB but he was never considered an "elite" QB.  When the Ravens realized that Lamar was so good, they made moves to make him a dual threat, including bringing in Greg Roman who had had success with Kaepernick on the Giants.  Lamar has always stressed that he was a passer first, even as a rookie, but Roman's offense had him running the ball to the point that he was getting really beat up.  It's only been the last couple of seasons since the Ravens changed OCs in 2023 to Todd Monken that Lamar has really developed as a NFL passer.  It's only been recently that they also improved their WR group.  Essentially, for the first five years of Lamar's career, the Ravens FO and Harbaugh actually impeded Lamar's development rather than "catered" to him.  

Meh, I don’t think Lamar in 2019 was capable of running the 2024 Monken offense.

 

I think he was best suited for Roman’s system when he came out of college, and eventually outgrew it.

 

Funnily enough, it’s what I suggested the Bears do to salvage Fields, who was a similarly elite athlete who needed to grow as a passer.