Did Harbaugh Call Timeout Too Quickly?

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Heard an interesting point from a Dolphins fan (I was watching a reaction video and enjoying their crushing disbelief). At the end of the game, when the Bills were just downing it, forcing the Ravens to use up their timeouts so the Bills could kick with no time left, Harbaugh could have forced them into more of a scramble drill. After the 2nd Down knee, Harbaugh uses his last timeout right away at 32 seconds. The Bills can now down it one more time and than have a relatively leisurely half minute to get the kicking team out there, which is what happened. Instead, Harbaugh could have let the clock run down a bit to maybe 15 seconds or so. Then the Bills have much less time after the knee to get the field goal team in place. They could still do it, but it would be rushed.

 

In fact, he could have caused quite a panic even before that - the Bills are expecting the timeout there, but was the FG team ready to run on if Harbaugh didn't call time out at all? If he just let the clock run. Even if they do react well and run out there in good order while the clock is ticking, Harbaugh can still call his time out with enough on the clock that they don't want to kick on third down, so they have to go through the condensed knee/switch units deal. Maybe they decide to just kick on third down with 15 seconds left, rather than risk it, but then the Ravens at least get a kickoff and Hail Mary.

 

Anyway, thought that was interesting, from a very depressed Dolphins fan. Sorry if this was already discussed. I tried to read everything, but may have missed it.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

5 minutes ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

Heard an interesting point from a Dolphins fan (I was watching a reaction video and enjoying their crushing disbelief). At the end of the game, when the Bills were just downing it, forcing the Ravens to use up their timeouts so the Bills could kick with no time left, Harbaugh could have forced them into more of a scramble drill. After the 2nd Down knee, Harbaugh uses his last timeout right away at 32 seconds. The Bills can now down it one more time and than have a relatively leisurely half minute to get the kicking team out there, which is what happened. Instead, Harbaugh could have let the clock run down a bit to maybe 15 seconds or so. Then the Bills have much less time after the knee to get the field goal team in place. They could still do it, but it would be rushed.

 

In fact, he could have caused quite a panic even before that - the Bills are expecting the timeout there, but was the FG team ready to run on if Harbaugh didn't call time out at all? If he just let the clock run. Even if they do react well and run out there in good order while the clock is ticking, Harbaugh can still call his time out with enough on the clock that they don't want to kick on third down, so they have to go through the condensed knee/switch units deal. Maybe they decide to just kick on third down with 15 seconds left, rather than risk it, but then the Ravens at least get a kickoff and Hail Mary.

 

Anyway, thought that was interesting, from a very depressed Dolphins fan. Sorry if this was already discussed. I tried to read everything, but may have missed it.

 

They would have just kicked it if it was 3rd down and 15 seconds when he called the timeout. I do wonder though if we would've caught on fast enough if he just didn't call timeout at all or if it would've been really rushed.

 

But that is true...they would've either possibly had us rush it or would've had a few seconds to possibly get into position for a Hail Mary if they had called it later. 

Edited 3 hours ago by HomeskillitMoorman

[Buffalo716]

I don't really think harbaugh had any choice and I'm sure McDermott was ready for every situation 

 

As soon as Coleman fell down.. I knew we had the game iced

 

The kicking team was probably ready if he didn't call a timeout to run out there but harbaugh has too Call them 

 

If harbaugh holds on to them Allen can stop the clock with a spike at any time

Edited 3 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

How many times do you see a game winning FG attempt with a running clock and time expires as the kick is made.  Most of the time teams either end up kicking with maybe 15 seconds left with running clock or  the clock is stopped.

 

My point being this was somewhat of a very uncommon situation so easy to say afterwards what they should have done instead. 

 

 I'm actually surprised the Ravens didn't fake an injury as you do get one extra a 4th TO for injury if a team  is out outs.  After the one the rules change as to how handled.

[TheFunPolice]

In that scenario, the clock runs down enough that it doesn't leave BAL enough clock anyway, plus it gives the Bills a nice calm, clock stopped chance at the kick.

 

Honestly, Harbaugh's strategy of making the Bills run out the FG team and possibly make a mistake almost worked. We left a guy unblocked who almost got the ball. 

Edited 3 hours ago by TheFunPolice

[HomeskillitMoorman]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't really think harbaugh had any choice and I'm sure McDermott was ready for every situation 

 

As soon as Coleman fell down.. I knew we had the game iced

 

The kicking team was probably ready if he didn't call a timeout to run out there but harbaugh has too Call them 

 

If harbaugh holds on to them Allen can stop the clock with a spike at any time

 

Yeah ultimately if he caused confusion by not calling timeout, I do think Josh would've taken the reigns and got them up there to spike it. 

 

If I were Harbaugh I probably wouldn't have called timeout and if the Bills figured out what they were going to do, I would've called it around 15 seconds, you know at that point they're going to kick it and you'd get the ball back with maybe 10 seconds for a chance at a miracle play. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

In that scenario, the clock runs down enough that it doesn't leave BAL enough clock anyway, plus it gives the Bills a nice calm, clock stopped chance at the kick.

 

Also, the Bills could thrown a deliberate incomplete end zone fase pass on third down and gotten the clock down to 10 or so seconds. The fg takes around 5 seconds, and then you kick it out of the end zone (no chance for a td return). They have 5-6 seconds and no timeouts and therefore have to complete a 65 yard hail mary.

 

 

[Last Guy on the Bench]

I don't know. If the Bills decide to kick at 15 seconds, sure, Baltimore doesn't have much of a chance, but they have at least a glimmer (as we know to well from Illegal Forward Pass Homerun Throwback Shoot Me Now). Or the Bills take the knee and kick with the clock running, but with a lot less time to switch units. Now that I think about it, why don't you just have your field goal unit take a knee? Too much room for error, since they are not used to it?

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Also, the Bills could thrown a deliberate incomplete end zone fase pass on third down and gotten the clock down to 10 or so seconds. The fg takes around 5 seconds, and then you kick it out of the end zone (no chance for a td return). They have 5-6 seconds and no timeouts and therefore have to complete a 65 yard hail mary.

 

 

That's true. The Bills can snap it if they time it right and ground it. Again, though, there is at least the Hail Mary chance. Why not? Baltimore loses nothing by it, unless you think that with 30 seconds to take the knee and bring on the FG unit, there is a better chance of something going wrong for the Bills than there would be for a Hail Mary. That might be true.

Edited 3 hours ago by Last Guy on the Bench

[The Cincinnati Kid]

The Ravens should have gone for the 4th and 3. 

They had 3 timeouts, so even if they don’t get the 1st down, and Buffalo takes over, the Bills mindset is run clock and kick the FG. So, after the Bills force the Ravens to use all 3 timeouts, there is still about the same amount of time that Josh had and zero timeouts to get into FG range. 
 

In that scenario, you absolutely trust your Hall of Fame backfield and if they get stuffed you still get another swing at it.

[Success]

24 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

In that scenario, the clock runs down enough that it doesn't leave BAL enough clock anyway, plus it gives the Bills a nice calm, clock stopped chance at the kick.

 

Honestly, Harbaugh's strategy of making the Bills run out the FG team and possibly make a mistake almost worked. We left a guy unblocked who almost got the ball. 

 

I'm so weird. I still get nervous watching replays of that kick because of how close Hamilton got to blocking it.

 

 

[gonzo1105]

I mean I suppose the point is valid but then the Bills are just going to do one of two things. They are either going to tell Josh Allen to run back and run 4 verts and chuck the ball out of the back of the endzone knocking off another 4 to 5 seconds of that 15 seconds or they are just going to kick the Field goal with 15 seconds left. Either way the Bills were still in a big advantageous spot. 

[BillnutinHouston]

30 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

In that scenario, the clock runs down enough that it doesn't leave BAL enough clock anyway, plus it gives the Bills a nice calm, clock stopped chance at the kick.

 

Honestly, Harbaugh's strategy of making the Bills run out the FG team and possibly make a mistake almost worked. We left a guy unblocked who almost got the ball. 

On the kick, Deone Walker blocked an outside rusher and left Hamilton (inside) with a free shot to the kicker.  They'll need to clean that up in a hurry.

[Jalan81]

37 minutes ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

Heard an interesting point from a Dolphins fan (I was watching a reaction video and enjoying their crushing disbelief). At the end of the game, when the Bills were just downing it, forcing the Ravens to use up their timeouts so the Bills could kick with no time left, Harbaugh could have forced them into more of a scramble drill. After the 2nd Down knee, Harbaugh uses his last timeout right away at 32 seconds. The Bills can now down it one more time and than have a relatively leisurely half minute to get the kicking team out there, which is what happened. Instead, Harbaugh could have let the clock run down a bit to maybe 15 seconds or so. Then the Bills have much less time after the knee to get the field goal team in place. They could still do it, but it would be rushed.

 

In fact, he could have caused quite a panic even before that - the Bills are expecting the timeout there, but was the FG team ready to run on if Harbaugh didn't call time out at all? If he just let the clock run. Even if they do react well and run out there in good order while the clock is ticking, Harbaugh can still call his time out with enough on the clock that they don't want to kick on third down, so they have to go through the condensed knee/switch units deal. Maybe they decide to just kick on third down with 15 seconds left, rather than risk it, but then the Ravens at least get a kickoff and Hail Mary.

 

Anyway, thought that was interesting, from a very depressed Dolphins fan. Sorry if this was already discussed. I tried to read everything, but may have missed it.

You were thinking the bills would have kneeled, but they wouldn’t. They would’ve just clocked the ball and had the same amount of time that’s strategy would not have worked.

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I'm so weird. I still get nervous watching replays of that kick because of how close Hamilton got to blocking it.

 

 

Haha, it’s the opposite of rewatching Norwood’s kick and hoping he somehow makes it this time.

[Billzgobowlin]

So Ravens run down the time and the Bills clock the ball and kick the FG on fourth down.

[GASabresIUFan]

Just now, Billzgobowlin said:

So Ravens run down the time and the Bills clock the ball and kick the FG on fourth down.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

Personally I think Harbaugh’s mistake was not using his time outs just after the two minute warning. Instead he waited until the clock was down to 45 seconds or so after the Bills had already moved into FG range.  
 

Ultimately, once the Bills got the ball back with 2 minutes plus left the birds were cooked given the momentum the Bills offense had.

[Doc Brown]

Good post as I never even thought of that.  I would've stopped it at 13 Seconds just to give Bills fans PTSD.

[JoshAllin]

Someone broke this down in /nfl subs, would have been an interesting test for the coaches 

 

A. Kneel on 3rd down, run the FG team out with a running clock (but now with 15 seconds more urgency)

B. Deliberately throw the ball out of bounds then kick the FG on 4th down with ~16 seconds left. Runs the risk of a penalty if the Bills try to do anything too fancy.

C. Bills play it safe and kick thr FG on 3rd down with 19 seconds left

 

Also I wonder before that, does keon have the smarts to just fall down there if he doesn't get get tripped up he looked like he wanted to walk in badly

Edited 3 hours ago by JoshAllin

[mathja]

Not quite on topic, but I’ve watched the replay of the field goal a bunch of times and I think it was Kyle Hamilton that almost got through and blocked it. He was visibly upset because he literally just missed it. I can’t believe how unblocked he was.

[dave mcbride]

48 minutes ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

I don't know. If the Bills decide to kick at 15 seconds, sure, Baltimore doesn't have much of a chance, but they have at least a glimmer (as we know to well from Illegal Forward Pass Homerun Throwback Shoot Me Now). Or the Bills take the knee and kick with the clock running, but with a lot less time to switch units. Now that I think about it, why don't you just have your field goal unit take a knee? Too much room for error, since they are not used to it?

That's true. The Bills can snap it if they time it right and ground it. Again, though, there is at least the Hail Mary chance. Why not? Baltimore loses nothing by it, unless you think that with 30 seconds to take the knee and bring on the FG unit, there is a better chance of something going wrong for the Bills than there would be for a Hail Mary. That might be true.

I think harbaugh played it right because by letting the clock run, the bills had to be as simple as possible on the kick snap count and the linemen could not move at all - a false start would have ended the game (10 second runoff). That allowed kyle hamilton to slice through with ease and he missed the block by about an inch. It was so close to being blocked.

 

Harbaugh is an old special teams coach and gets this.

31 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

The Ravens should have gone for the 4th and 3. 

They had 3 timeouts, so even if they don’t get the 1st down, and Buffalo takes over, the Bills mindset is run clock and kick the FG. So, after the Bills force the Ravens to use all 3 timeouts, there is still about the same amount of time that Josh had and zero timeouts to get into FG range. 
 

In that scenario, you absolutely trust your Hall of Fame backfield and if they get stuffed you still get another swing at it.

It is an open question if Jackson could have played on the 4th down play because of the oliver hit, and I seriously doubt they would have run him. The Bills would have realized this. He was limping after that hit and in pain.

Edited 3 hours ago by dave mcbride