Bills cuts discussion

[billybob71]

How many more cuts needed to get to 53?

Edited Tuesday at 06:51 PM by billybob71

[Scott7975]

Im surprised Dane Jackson got cut. Not because of his play but more so because we are thin at CB. This makes me hopeful that either Tre, the rookie, or both are expected to be ready by week 1.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

Serious question did you watch the Bears game. He didn't stay in his lane twice and allowed the returner to get the corner. It was really bad. I knew then he was getting cut.

Shavers wasn't great at defensive ST at first and he improved.  I just think this team will miss the extra field position they could get from Shenault.  And you could develop him as a punt returner. Apparently the staff didn't want to deal with that. Cod isn't exactly great on defensive ST coverage either. Oh well, its done. Maybe they save a PS spot for him??

[Pete]

Just now, billybob71 said:

How many more cuts needed to get to 53?

7 I believe

 

[RoscoeParrish]

4 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Well, I disagree that he's "just not good", and many Bills media who analyze the film also disagree. Even PFF (who I don't love) rates him as... fine (above average against run, below against the pass).

 

And again, while I can't say 144 when targeted isn't terrible, he was so bad in 2022 that they had one of the best defenses in football. As another poster mentioned, when a player is surrounded by great players, they tend to get targeted. He had 103 last year, which is also pretty bad, but it wasn't even close to worst on the defense. And coverage isn't 100% of a safety's job.

 

I'm not arguing that Hamlin is an above average (or even good) starter, just that he's not a liability on the roster. To an extent, I agree, the less he plays, the better the defense will be... if that means Cole Bishop is playing well. I do agree we should have a better starter than Damar Hamlin. But we could also do worse if our starters go down. 

 

Many of us are just pushing back against the notion he wouldn't be on any other roster. 

Things we know for sure.

 

Nobody in the NFL wanted to pay Damar Hamlin more than the 63rd highest safety salary to add them to their roster.

 

You can do with that information what you will when it comes to his reputation around the league.

[Trust The Process]

Just now, TH3 said:

I can’t believe bb can’t hit on every draft pick either!!

The man sucks in rounds 1-3 but is great in 4-7 which makes him a decent GM. My biggest gripe with Beane is this team lacks blue chip talent and this is a biproduct of struggling to draft blue chip talent in premium rounds 1-3. Beane is struggling to build a great defensive line despite spending a lot of money and premium draft picks along the defensive line. Hopefully Beane hits on Jackson, Sanders, and Walker.

[MarlinTheMagician]

C'mon, boot Moore.  He is a zero, didn't want to sign him.  Let's roll with Shavers and we go from there.  Kendrick perhaps? 

[appoo]

6 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Well, I disagree that he's "just not good", and many Bills media who analyze the film also disagree. Even PFF (who I don't love) rates him as... fine (above average against run, below against the pass).

 

And again, while I can't say 144 when targeted isn't terrible, he was so bad in 2022 that they had one of the best defenses in football. As another poster mentioned, when a player is surrounded by great players, they tend to get targeted. He had 103 last year, which is also pretty bad, but it wasn't even close to worst on the defense. And coverage isn't 100% of a safety's job.

 

I'm not arguing that Hamlin is an above average (or even good) starter, just that he's not a liability on the roster. To an extent, I agree, the less he plays, the better the defense will be... if that means Cole Bishop is playing well. I do agree we should have a better starter than Damar Hamlin. But we could also do worse if our starters go down. 

 

Many of us are just pushing back against the notion he wouldn't be on any other roster. 

In fact, he should be a random, mostly anonymous player. Every team has that kind of player starting for them.  

 

Like our offense, it's Torrance. I couldn't tell if you how good or bad he is just because I lose him from all the other players around him

Edited Tuesday at 06:54 PM by appoo

[Dillenger4]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC started Bryan Cook at safety the past two years. He's no better than Hamlin. He has given up a 110.5 passer rating in coverage since becoming a starter. They've had a great defense in spite of that.

 

Safety is not going to be the problem with the defense this year. If there is one, it will be coaching/play calling like it was for much of last year. Or maybe CB2. A defense heavy coaching staff needs to be able to make up for replacement level safety play. If KC can do it, so can we. I don't want that to become the excuse if the defense disappoints yet again this season.

Once Max is back at CB we should be good. I hope Rapp and Cole play Safety with Hamlin as #3 backup/filler. We have Taron who can slide to max's side when required to help out. Once Max is back our D should be GOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD!

Bosa will surprise a lot of people this year.

[billybob71]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

7 I believe

 

Would love to be a fly on the wall, wondering if they already have it all worked out or if the coaches are in meetings debating the last few cuts, and also pouring over other teams cuts, gotta be somewhat intense right now 

Edited Tuesday at 06:56 PM by billybob71

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, RoscoeParrish said:

I don’t know Bryan Cook as well, but if someone wants to argue he’s also not a good player, i won’t disagree.

 

Bryan Cook abandoning his zone is the reason Kincaid was high school wide open on the infamous 4th down in the AFCCG. You know how their coaches made up for it? With an awesome play call. Replacement level safety is a flaw but not a fatal one. I expect a great defense this year even if Hamlin starts every game (and I don't think he will). That should be the expectation of the entire fanbase given the coaching staff and the investments made this offseason. No defense in the league is starting above average players at every position.

[MPL]

1 hour left. Bubble guys still on the roster:

- Carter
- Wilkerson
- Moore
- Shavers
- Gore Jr. 
- Lundt
- Logue

Bills trying to work a last-minute trade? 

[Captain Hindsight]

2 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

The man sucks in rounds 1-3 but is great in 4-7 which makes him a decent GM. My biggest gripe with Beane is this team lacks blue chip talent and this is a biproduct of struggling to draft blue chip talent in premium rounds 1-3. Beane is struggling to build a great defensive line despite spending a lot of money and premium draft picks along the defensive line. Hopefully Beane hits on Jackson, Sanders, and Walker.

It’s not he’s missed a bunch of top 5 picks. Constantly picking 30 means you are not getting blue chip talent typically 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

Would love to be a fly on the wall, wondering if they already have it all worked out or if the coaches are in meetings debating the last few cuts, and also pouring over other teams cuts, gotta be somewhat intense right now 

hearing Brady and Bobby arguing last spot to Offense or Defense

[appoo]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Bryan Cook abandoning his zone is the reason Kincaid was high school wide open on the infamous 4th down in the AFCCG. You know how their coaches made up for it? With an awesome play call. Replacement level safety is a flaw but not a fatal one. I expect a great defense this year even if Hamlin starts every game (and I don't think he will). That should be the expectation of the entire fanbase given the coaching staff and the investments made this offseason. No defense in the league is starting above average players at every position.

That playcal still cracks me up. Their DC intentionally gave up yards and maybe even points by consistently bringing pressure in a certain way, just so he could reverse it on a single, key, 4th down. 

 

If that brilliant or insane? Or is that purely a function of outcome? Because a way to read that is if the Bills had scored a bit more, then he wouldn't even have been in a position to bring out that particular punchline he'd been setting up

[Pete]

I believe its mostly worked out.  You are correct though, the intensity cranks up, sifting through other teams cuts

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, MPL said:

1 hour left. Bubble guys still on the roster:

- Carter
- Wilkerson
- Moore
- Shavers
- Gore Jr. 
- Lundt
- Logue

Bills trying to work a last-minute trade? 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if they trade Carter in a 7th for a 6th swap type trade.

[gonzo1105]

So guys who haven't been cut yet that everyone expects: 

 

RB: Frank Gore

WR: Deon Cain, Kristian Wilkerson

TE: Zach Davidson 

DE: Paris Shand

DT: Jordan Phillips(PS), Zion Logue

LB: Keonta Jenkins

 

 

[jwhit34]

40 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

 

You and I obviously disagree on the definition of what a ''good player and productive player'' is. In my opinion, a ''good player'' is a starter or deserves to start.

A ''productive player'' is a backup or role player.

 

Having said that, from 2018-2024, Brandon Beane drafted 15 players in rounds 2 and 3, and traded away an additional two 3rd round picks for Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper, which makes it a subtotal of 17 picks.

 

2018: Harrison Phillips

2019: Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox

2020: A.J. Epenesa, Zack Moss

2021: Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown

2022: James Cook, Terrel Bernard

2023: O’Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams

2024: Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter

 

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

 

As far as the 2024 draft goes, it's too early to determine whether or not Coleman, Bishop and Carter are worth 2nd and 3rd round picks, but as of today Bishop and much more so Carter, aren't looking good which could very well end up being a total of 7 bad premium draft picks we didn't get a good return on investment on.

 

I changed my mind and listed Rasul Douglas as worthy of giving up a 3rd round pick because he gave us 2 good years as CB2. 

We drafted Edefuan Ulofoshio with the 5th round pick we received from the Packers in the Rasul Douglas trade. Ulofoshio is a failure and just got released.

 

Amari Cooper on other hand is a wasted 3rd round pick because the return on investment was a pathetic 1 year rental who played a total of 8 games and only got 20 receptions for 297 yards and 2 TD's, and in addition was a ghost in the AFC Championship game when we needed him the most had only 4 catches for 33 yards.

 

By my count, Ford, Singletary, Epenesa, Moss, Basham, and giving up a 3rd round pick in a trade for Amari Cooper, makes it a minimum of 6 wasted draft picks out of 12 from 2018 to 2023.

 

There's a very good odds that it'll end up being 8 wasted draft picks IF Bishop and Carter continues to struggle and not live up to expectations. 

Cody Ford has played over 80 games in the league, most of them as a starter. He also was a key component in the trade up for the 2018 draft and that pick was then packaged in the trade up for #7 which resulted in Josh Allen. So that wasn't too bad.

 

Singletary was a mid round 3rd who has over 5,700 career yards from scrimmage.

 

Epenesa was #54 overall and will probably play 10 years in the NFL. Solid player, not a waste.

 

Basham is the worst pick. Moss was 86th overall. Not the best pick but still in the league. I'll give you that one. 

 

I still say that's an excellent track record. 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 minutes ago, MPL said:

1 hour left. Bubble guys still on the roster:

- Carter
- Wilkerson
- Moore
- Shavers
- Gore Jr. 
- Lundt
- Logue

Bills trying to work a last-minute trade? 

Definitely. I mean it would be criminal to not try