Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

The giants threw the ball 51 times and the bills only got close a few times.

 

You're over selling this narrative. A lot of those snaps were when players like Casey Rogers and Zion Logue were on the field. The top 4 DTs and top 4 EDGEs are what actually matter. I would bet by the time the season starts that will be Oliver/Jones/Sanders/Walker and Rousseau/Bosa/Epenesa/Hoecht (probably Solomon until Hoecht comes back which will be a notable weak link). Those players as a whole performed very well yesterday.

 

I do remain concerned that the coverage will not be good enough for the pass rush to matter, and that includes the coverage scheme and play calling as much as it does coverage talent, but that's a different conversation. On the whole I feel really good about the talent Beane added to the DL this season. A lot of it will depend on Bosa staying healthy.

[PrimeTime101]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It's pre-season football which means by no popular acclaim whatsoever it's time for the annual tradition like no other..... it's Gunner's Good Night / Bad Night as the New York Football Giants left Orchard Park victorious. By the way... did you know a new stadium is being built? Yea, right across the street apparently. Oh and there was some football happening too. Here is how it went down!

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - This time last year Buffalo Joe just felt like a nice story. Even coming into the spring I thought there was a chance it was a one year deal and he would be off the roster in 2025. But far from that he got the start here alongside Matt Milano in the absence of Terrel Bernard who has been nursing a hamstring injury through camp. Andreessen was typically active including a nice tackle for loss in the second quarter and was calling the defense. He looks pretty settled in as the backup MLB at this stage and the fairy tale looks like continuing into a second year. 

 

Mitch Trubisky - Their stat lines ended up being similar as Mike White rebounded to lead touchdown drives the last two times he took to the field. However, the eye test told you pretty clearly who looked more comfortable running the offense and who threw the more accurate balls. Add to that Trubsiky's mobility allows you to create more ways of generating offense in the worst case scenario where your backup has to play meaningful football. His grip on the backup job just tightened. 

 

Deone Walker - The 4th round rookie was not my favourite pick of the past draft and this was not a perfect debut. My concerns over his pad level and ability to bend remain and I think he gave up leverage a couple of times trying to play the run. But flashed in pass defense, getting a hand on one ball and being a constant disruptive force in the middle of the defensive line. I am not sure he is going to be a high snap count guy as a rookie but I can absolutely see him being used as an impactful situational player because he flashes those traits that are hard to buy at that size.  

 

Tyrell Shavers - Ultimately I still think Shavers' route to a spot on the 53 is narrow. But he has separated throughout camp into a category almost of his own where he is behind the top five guys but clearly ahead of the other receivers. His chances might depend on who wins the returner job, because if Laviska Shenault wins it then there is no chance they keep Shavers as a WR7. But if Shenault does not then them keeping a 6th receiver would appear to tilt towards Shavers making it after two years on the practice squad. I still suspect he is cut (and they try to sneak him onto the PS again) but this might be the toughest cut to make. 

 

Te'Cory Couch - Couch was a player that flashed last pre-season too but this was a really impressive display with two pass breakups, a big tackle in the run game when the Giants were backed up and another excellent coverage rep. I don't see a route to the 53 here for him but if he keeps making plays when he gets his opportunity then the chances of him earning a spot on an active roster elsewhere increases significantly. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

3rd down defense - The Giants were 9 for 19 on third down for 43% - which is exactly where the Bills were in 2024 percentage wise and that was good for 29th in the NFL. At times in the first half it felt even worse than that number suggests. This is a sustained issue now under Bobby Babich's coordinating and he better be feeling the heat to get it fixed. The Bills do not seem able to dictate in any way to the offense on 3rd down. Even when it is 3rd and long. 

 

Zach Davidson - Okay Jackson Hawes, Davidson's competition for TE3, had a bad drop as well but he has ways to make this team without being a big time receiving threat. Davidson doesn't and he had two brutal drops today. You could see his frustration on the field. That felt like a man who knew he was letting his chance pass him by. 

 

Landon Jackson - Let me start with this - Landon Jackson is never going to be a big time quick twitch, bendy edge rusher. That is not how he is going to win. But he looked very stiff and upright today and really struggled when his blockers got the first punch in within a rep. You'd want to see a little more fluidity through the hips and a little better use of the hands. The story at Arkansas was his inconsistency... the Bills have time to bring him along slowly... but it was an inauspicious beginning. 

 

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough. Hoecht will miss the first six weeks of the regular season through a doping ban so you would have wanted to see him go full gas in pre-season. And to an extent he did, but in a really reckless way. He ran himself out of multiple plays, struggled to generate pressure on the Quarterback and left wide open escape lanes for dump offs, screens and QB run plays. The Bills are committed for three years so as soon as he is healthy he will be back in the fold, but he has some work to do. Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books. 

 

Dane Jackson - I think he probably faced an uphill battle to make the roster in any event but Jackson was outplayed by the likes of Dorian Strong and the aforementioned Te'Cory Couch let alone the starter. Wasn't just that he was beat for the long touchdown but he didn't quite seem the same fundamentally sound guy we remember from his first spell in Buffalo. I doubt this is the final good bye as I imagine sneaking him to one of the six practice squad spots saved for vets will be relatively achievable but he did not help his cause today.

 

.

Flame away folks, there will be another of these next week!

Interesting you don't add Mike White to the conversation for good day. Played around half the time with just about the same stats... 1 more TD with a few less yards.

I would like to see White with #1's next preseason game for first half to see what he brings to the table.

 

I disagree with Dane Jackson.. He had some darn near perfect balls thrown his way... not much you can do about that. He tacked well and kept players in front of him other than 1 long play where the SS was in no mans land doing god only know what....

 

I do like Strong.

 

Great write up

 

cheers!

 

 

 

 

[Allen2Moulds]

I think we all have to remember that preseason football is a glorified practice. Besides not scheming for the opponent, guys could be working on specific things/techniques. We really don't know.

I don't need the preseason to evaluate guys we've already seen at the NFL level. 

Mainly just want to see how the rookies look, given the size and speed of the NFL.

That being said, Walker looked the part. He looked like the dancing bear, that big Ed describes. Sanders looked solid. Landon looked like he doesn't belong. He looked every bit as stiff in College. I also never understood the love that this guy got.

[Captain_Quint]

A side note, take a look back at Abdul Carter's game. Only played like 5 snaps, and he beat Dawkins twice and Torrence BAD another time. He is gonna be a force. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNJ7KbHA9na/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Allen2Moulds]

2 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

A side note, take a look back at Abdul Carter's game. Only played like 5 snaps, and he beat Dawkins twice and Torrence BAD another time. He is gonna be a force. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNJ7KbHA9na/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

I believe that within the next 2-3 years, Carter will be the best pass rusher in the NFL.

Cleveland had a great opportunity to put together an alltime dline, and passed on the chance. The Browns being the Browns.

Edited Sunday at 04:32 PM by Allen2Moulds

[MasterStrategist]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair, but also fair that it is my single biggest concern going into 2025 about the entire team. It was woeful last year. I would imagine it has been a point of emphasis the entire off season. And yet they were really disappointing yesterday. It isn't just scheme either. It is basics. Tackling, spacing, synchronisation of rush and coverage. Those things don't need creative scheming and when you get more creative scheme wise you better have those fundamentals down pat.

Biggest issue with 3rd down defense- was 1st down defense.

 

We got behind the sticks and alot were 3rd and short conversions.

 

No scheming, we basically gave 4-5 underneath routes in early downs that play into the Russ Wilson and rookie Dart very easy reads.  

 

Im not concerned yet, would like to see us play more man.  But was encouraged to see our man defense at times.  Also RB screen game is almost automatic to be successful against zone in preseason, against 3s and 4s. 

 

I expect to see us be more man next week in Chicago- we are truly testing/evaluation right now.

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Interesting you don't add Mike White to the conversation for good day. Played around half the time with just about the same stats... 1 more TD with a few less yards.

I would like to see White with #1's next preseason game for first half to see what he brings to the table.

 

I disagree with Dane Jackson.. He had some darn near perfect balls thrown his way... not much you can do about that. He tacked well and kept players in front of him other than 1 long play where the SS was in no mans land doing god only know what....

 

I do like Strong.

 

Great write up

 

cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

White threw 3 or 4 god awful passes. That's why. He rebounded well on his last two drives but he looked considerably less in control than Trubisky to me.

[Ya Digg?]

Bad night: LITERALLY ANYONE WHO IS OVERREACTING TO A PRESEASON GAME!

[Low Positive]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I do good night / bad night after every pre season game win or lose and have done for multiple years. These games are about what you learn and I try and hone in on what the Bills will have learned and how much it all matters. 

I have no problem with anything you posted. It's your analysis and more than fair. What I have a problem with is people drawing conclusions from a game where the Bills were evaluating players and working on things more than even trying to stop the Giants. And people declaring rookies busts after a single preseason game are indeed overreacting. For example, it's better that Landon Jackson struggled a bit in his first PS game than in his third. They also still have about 4 weeks of practice.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

For example, it's better that Landon Jackson struggled a bit in his first PS game than in his third. They also still have about 4 weeks of practice.

 

I'm not going to declare him a bust this early but that was as bad a debut as I've ever seen from a top 100 Bills pick. A player that Beane openly admitted he would have picked at #62 if we had kept that pick. He barely looked like a functional football player and he had a dumb mental mistake that cost his fellow rookie an interception.

 

Admittedly I was never as high on him in the draft as a lot of other fans. I am big on movement skills when evaluating prospects. Stiff straight line athletes are not usually successful in the NFL. Size and strength can go a long way but he needs to develop some kind of pass rush repertoire or he will be out of the league in 2 years. Awful start but plenty of time to improve. I expect him to be a healthy scratch once Hoecht returns from suspension.

[aristocrat]

Before the game I was iffy about a Super Bowl run. After the game Super Bowl is back on. Very very good team

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they are synonyms. In every defensive call you want the rush and the coverage to compliment each other. Its as much getting timing down as anything.

 

Well they have several shared words as their definition.  They're certainly not opposite terms as you suggested.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Well they have several shared words as their definition.  They're certainly not opposite terms as you suggested.

 

No I don't suggest they are opposites. There is an extent to which synchronisation is dependent on the call. But my point was more in a vanilla cover 2 call that has to be right. And there were times last night it was off.

[DrPJax]

12 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

The thing is both of the other two guys on that show with Joe today, Jeremy and Jerry both thought Hoecht looked really great today as well. So that’s 3 of them.

 

I won’t comment on it since I saw some of the game but not all of it and didn’t catch a lot of what he did. 
 

Seems to be a big difference of opinion though. 

     I like Jerry o quite a bit  and think his experience as a lineman is very valuable as a role as an analyst.  I’m indifferent on the other two as they just seem to meld into the plethora of podcasters available online today. Every team has loyal fans who now think their love of football and their teams qualifies them as experts who need to share their “ expertise “ on podcasts or radio now. .  Add in the AI casts, all the want to be sportscasters who want to be the next Bermans, and it’s an insane amount of content on even the smallest minutiae every day. 
 

      I Would add that as these Podcasts proliferate they have to try to separate themselves from all the noise out there. They have to remain in good standing with the players and the team if they want to have any form of access. When your “paycheck” depends on access and staying in good standing with the main or only organization you are covering , it is obvious that relationship will bias the coverage , and most things have a positive slant while negatives are de-emphasized or ignored.  
 

     Ostroski and another former Bills lineman, John FINA ( bills LT for 10 years whose rookie year was the year of SB27) have slowly been drifting to being less  critical , and are very guarded about saying any negative things in their analysis. They are critical but it’s very edited now compared to when they started podcasts and they have now been more “ around” the team and organization (fina stayed away from Buffalo until recently and just recently went back for tailgating events etc, and his relationship w the front office has been repaired) They are still enjoyable listening. It doesn’t surprise me the three you mentioned above had more positive outlooks in opinions, yet just because the 3 of them agreed , I’m not sure that means they are more correct than the poster who expressed his concerns.  All three guys have financial gains related to their reporting about the Bills. 
 

      All im saying is it’s fair to look at any monetary relationships podcasters snd reporters have to the subjects they are covering. Most won’t jeopardize that possible income and in this case bias is a real possibility.  It just goes to show these are all subjective opinion pieces and not hard facts so it’s possible to have very different views that have some partial truths.   Plus, it’s preseason and interpretations are meaningless without the proper context of knowing what players were told to do. ✌️
 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I haven’t watched the game yet, but something is amiss. Gunner says “ugh, that was rough” for Hoecht’s play but now multiple reputable podcasts (Marino, Cover1) are calling his night outstanding. 
 

???

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 8/9/2025 at 7:30 PM, GunnerBill said:

It's pre-season football which means by no popular acclaim whatsoever it's time for the annual tradition like no other..... it's Gunner's Good Night / Bad Night as the New York Football Giants left Orchard Park victorious. By the way... did you know a new stadium is being built? Yea, right across the street apparently. Oh and there was some football happening too. Here is how it went down!

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - This time last year Buffalo Joe just felt like a nice story. Even coming into the spring I thought there was a chance it was a one year deal and he would be off the roster in 2025. But far from that he got the start here alongside Matt Milano in the absence of Terrel Bernard who has been nursing a hamstring injury through camp. Andreessen was typically active including a nice tackle for loss in the second quarter and was calling the defense. He looks pretty settled in as the backup MLB at this stage and the fairy tale looks like continuing into a second year. 

 

Mitch Trubisky - Their stat lines ended up being similar as Mike White rebounded to lead touchdown drives the last two times he took to the field. However, the eye test told you pretty clearly who looked more comfortable running the offense and who threw the more accurate balls. Add to that Trubsiky's mobility allows you to create more ways of generating offense in the worst case scenario where your backup has to play meaningful football. His grip on the backup job just tightened. 

 

Deone Walker - The 4th round rookie was not my favourite pick of the past draft and this was not a perfect debut. My concerns over his pad level and ability to bend remain and I think he gave up leverage a couple of times trying to play the run. But flashed in pass defense, getting a hand on one ball and being a constant disruptive force in the middle of the defensive line. I am not sure he is going to be a high snap count guy as a rookie but I can absolutely see him being used as an impactful situational player because he flashes those traits that are hard to buy at that size.  

 

Tyrell Shavers - Ultimately I still think Shavers' route to a spot on the 53 is narrow. But he has separated throughout camp into a category almost of his own where he is behind the top five guys but clearly ahead of the other receivers. His chances might depend on who wins the returner job, because if Laviska Shenault wins it then there is no chance they keep Shavers as a WR7. But if Shenault does not then them keeping a 6th receiver would appear to tilt towards Shavers making it after two years on the practice squad. I still suspect he is cut (and they try to sneak him onto the PS again) but this might be the toughest cut to make. 

 

Te'Cory Couch - Couch was a player that flashed last pre-season too but this was a really impressive display with two pass breakups, a big tackle in the run game when the Giants were backed up and another excellent coverage rep. I don't see a route to the 53 here for him but if he keeps making plays when he gets his opportunity then the chances of him earning a spot on an active roster elsewhere increases significantly. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

3rd down defense - The Giants were 9 for 19 on third down for 43% - which is exactly where the Bills were in 2024 percentage wise and that was good for 29th in the NFL. At times in the first half it felt even worse than that number suggests. This is a sustained issue now under Bobby Babich's coordinating and he better be feeling the heat to get it fixed. The Bills do not seem able to dictate in any way to the offense on 3rd down. Even when it is 3rd and long. 

 

Zach Davidson - Okay Jackson Hawes, Davidson's competition for TE3, had a bad drop as well but he has ways to make this team without being a big time receiving threat. Davidson doesn't and he had two brutal drops today. You could see his frustration on the field. That felt like a man who knew he was letting his chance pass him by. 

 

Landon Jackson - Let me start with this - Landon Jackson is never going to be a big time quick twitch, bendy edge rusher. That is not how he is going to win. But he looked very stiff and upright today and really struggled when his blockers got the first punch in within a rep. You'd want to see a little more fluidity through the hips and a little better use of the hands. The story at Arkansas was his inconsistency... the Bills have time to bring him along slowly... but it was an inauspicious beginning. 

 

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough. Hoecht will miss the first six weeks of the regular season through a doping ban so you would have wanted to see him go full gas in pre-season. And to an extent he did, but in a really reckless way. He ran himself out of multiple plays, struggled to generate pressure on the Quarterback and left wide open escape lanes for dump offs, screens and QB run plays. The Bills are committed for three years so as soon as he is healthy he will be back in the fold, but he has some work to do. Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books. 

 

Dane Jackson - I think he probably faced an uphill battle to make the roster in any event but Jackson was outplayed by the likes of Dorian Strong and the aforementioned Te'Cory Couch let alone the starter. Wasn't just that he was beat for the long touchdown but he didn't quite seem the same fundamentally sound guy we remember from his first spell in Buffalo. I doubt this is the final good bye as I imagine sneaking him to one of the six practice squad spots saved for vets will be relatively achievable but he did not help his cause today.

 

 

Flame away folks, there will be another of these next week!

Thank you ! I didn’t see it and have been looking for a review of the game. I will enjoy with my morning coffee ☕️ 

Edited Monday at 11:00 AM by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Matt_In_NH]

Is this the same as arrow up arrow down?

[PrimeTime101]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

White threw 3 or 4 god awful passes. That's why. He rebounded well on his last two drives but he looked considerably less in control than Trubisky to me.

3rd and 3.. Trubisky could of run it up the middle.. instead he stops in the middle of the line, throws a lateral into double covered half back...   

 

they have about the same stats but one is a quarters worth of work and another is a half.  Both had a couple silly throws.. i want to see him play with our #1's next week.

 

 

Edited Monday at 12:03 PM by PrimeTime101

[eball]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Trubisky could of run it up the middle

 

Any veteran QB taking a chance and "running up the middle" in a preseason game is an idiot.