Training Camp 2025

[rusty shackleford]

2 hours ago, BillsFooteball said:

Couple former Bills tidbits:

Caleb’s first pass today was picked off by Edmunds 

 

Although so early, Elam has been getting a ton of praise in Dallas . Picked off Dak today and reports he’s putting himself in position to start 

Elam seems very much the same type as Diggs’ brother in Dallas. Will get a good amount of penalties, give up some big plays, but then will get the highlight reel pick six.

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The only thing incorrect is you accusing me of claiming when the clips happened.  I literally never said they were from anytime in my OP.  You went on some mission about “when” they were, all I said was for those concerned about today there are some a couple nice catches in the trailer.  
 

You then you went on and asked about when the clips are from in the Hard Knocks trailer and I just said probably OTA’s or from Bills Embedded footage.  Also, I literally told you “when” was even irrelevant, point was there were a couple nice grabs on the trailer for encouragement amongst all the negativity a few of you were focused on about today.  
This whole tangent is a bit ridiculous lmao 

 

Now you’re straight up lying.   ✌️

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Hard Knocks trailer dropped - got a couple nice Keon highlights from this offseason in it for those overly concerned about anything from day 1 today lol 

 

Trailer got me amped for not just camp and the show - but the season!  LFG

 

 

🤔

Edited July 24 by Not at the table Karlos

[vincec]

12 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

😂😂😂

 

Blown away by the power of the new helmet.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hairston literally played in a combination zone scheme at Kentucky 

 

They do what Sean McDermott does alot

 

Yea he comes from a much more scheme adjacent place to the Bills than Elam did from that Florida defense. 

5 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Let's see how he does when refs start throwing flags. He CANNOT defend without holding.

 

Most of his holds come in transition and in and out of breaks. The Bills D requires much more of that than the Dallas D. Don't get me wrong, I think Elam might be beyond rescuing at this stage - but it was my position on the day we drafted him that the Bills defense would expose his worst weaknesses and mitigate his biggest strengths. I never thought it was ever a fit. The Dallas scheme is much closer to the type of D I think Elam can succeed in. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

It's who Keon is. He is a non-separator and he isn't a good enough contested catch guy to get away with it. 

[Dan Darragh]

20 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

I love when training camp starts. It means discussions go beyond conjecture and speculation. But what really gets me excited that football is right around the corner is the Hall of Fame game. It's a preseason game that's barely even a preseason game, and I usually only watch part of it, but seeing teams on the field starts the clock for me. 

 

July 31st.....the clock starts ticking.

 

 

Dunno, July football doesn't get me up.  It's worse than XFL or UFL or whatever there is these days.

[fergie's ire]

11 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Sure. Hairston has to learn McDermotts complex zone defense first.

 

This takes time and Elam never really learned it and could never use his natural athletism to fit in. That's why he's gone.

 

Hopefully Hairston is a cerebral enough player to pick it up and fit in and doesn't fall into that same Elam trap.

 

Until that happens White will be the starter. 

 

Same reason Hamlin is the starting safety. He's a "cerebral" player but certainly not athleticlly gifted

The most promising description I heard about yesterday's practice was on Cover 1.  They described a play where a receiver went in motion and as he did, Bernard yelled to Hairston who then relayed the message to someone else and repositioned himself and at the snap of the ball everyone was in position and picked up the play perfectly.  Their focus was on Bernard, but, to me, it's amazing that Hairston is doing this first practice.  I remember seeing Elam on the field and though I think it was still his rookie year, it was late in his rookie year.  Poyer was yelling at him to get in the right spot pre-snap, and he seemed annoyed that Elam didn't know where he should be.  If Hairston is picking this stuff up already and he has the mental ability to match his physical ability, he and Benford could make an amazing duo for the next several years.

[Thunderstruck]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I get it- You spend 9 months trying to get out, and the rest of your life trying to get back in

[Alphadawg7]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Hard Knocks trailer dropped - got a couple nice Keon highlights from this offseason in it for those overly concerned about anything from day 1 today lol 

 

15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My assumption is OTA's and other offseason programs they draw from - My friend is one of the producers on Hard Knocks, so I know they have in the past come in earlier points in the offseason for the purpose of shooting stuff they can use in promotional content prior to their full time shoot schedule.  But, Bills also shoot Embedded, so could also be footage Bills already had and shared for their trailer.  

 

4 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Now you’re straight up lying.   ✌️

🤔

I mean LITERALLY told you my it was an assumption after your first question about it.  At no point have I claimed they were from any specific time, and my OP gave a generalized range of when I assumed they are from.  
 

This has been maybe the dumbest and biggest waste of time convo I’ve been in this offseason as it has no relevancy of any kind to the point of my OP.  Its at least a reminder of why I spend so much less time here these days.  

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's who Keon is. He is a non-separator and he isn't a good enough contested catch guy to get away with it. 

Considering Keon could easily be 5th on the depth chart, I think there's a good chance he doesn't make the team. Probably goes for a 5th or 6th by late August, early September.  All it will take is a rookie or new WR who can return kicks showing more than him in preseason.  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I want to remind people that for a while it was conventional wisdom in the league to give WRs three years to determine whether they would work out, but after you got a rash of rookie wonders patience has begun to run out.

 

Of course, this trend has already happened with QBs. Luck, RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick all seemed to explode onto the league at the same time and that became the expectation.

 

Fast forward and you are seeing a multiple high round QB "busts" taking starting roles for other teams. Ask the Browns if they would take a straight up QB trade with the Bucs right now.

 

I'm not promising Coleman success but sweet mercy I think we are rushing to conclusions 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's who Keon is. He is a non-separator and he isn't a good enough contested catch guy to get away with it. 

"On his first day back at camp, Coleman was in a prominent role again, working with Allen and the first-team offense heavily, though he failed to deliver on several opportunities. During team drills, Coleman had four targets result in no receptions. The first was against second-team cornerback Dane Jackson, with Jackson sticking on Coleman the whole way and not allowing a catch opportunity. Coleman later had two reps against top cornerback Benford, with Benford breaking up both passes in contested opportunities. Then, near the end, Coleman had a chance to catch a pass along the sideline against Tre’Davious White, only for White to break up the pass.

 

The common reason these reps went in the defense’s favor had to do with Coleman’s lack of separation from the cornerback. The lack of separation has been a central theme since the Bills drafted him. While he does have quick feet at the breakdown point to flash as available to the quarterback, he has the tendency to allow the defender to get back in on the route, even with the initial win. Most of this has to do with foot speed and maybe not being as fluid a mover as other receivers. Coleman winning in contested situations must become his calling card unless he can begin to separate more, and none of those opportunities during Day 1 went his way during team drills."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6511535/2025/07/23/buffalo-bills-training-camp-observations-james-cook/

[RoscoeParrish]

10 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Your fears are unfounded.

 

Keon Coleman was an excellent punt returner in college.

 

He had 25 returns for 300 yards... 12.0 yards per return which is elite.

 

Punt returners don't actually have to be fast because most of the time, they're running against the flow of the coverage team.

 

Yeah, a lot of good or great punt returners weren’t necessarily burners.

[Goin Breakdown]

10 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Your fears are unfounded.

 

Keon Coleman was an excellent punt returner in college.

 

He had 25 returns for 300 yards... 12.0 yards per return which is elite.

 

Punt returners don't actually have to be fast because most of the time, they're running against the flow of the coverage team.

 

Awesome thanks. Didn't know that about his college career. Good to know. 

[RoscoeParrish]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's who Keon is. He is a non-separator and he isn't a good enough contested catch guy to get away with it. 

Contested catch ability at the NFL is a bonus ability.

 

Who was the last GREAT contested catch guy who made a living off that?

 

I can’t think of one.

 

I still have high hopes for Keon, but I never thought that was his pathway to NFL success. Your bread and butter can’t be a 50-50 ball so to speak.

[Don Otreply]

16 hours ago, Pete said:

It was reported White played about 55% of snaps, and Max played 45%.  They aren’t going to gift the job to Max.  He has to earn playing time 

Of course, my answer was in context of Ethan’s statement, 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Contested catch ability at the NFL is a bonus ability.

 

Who was the last GREAT contested catch guy who made a living off that?

 

I can’t think of one.

 

I still have high hopes for Keon, but I never thought that was his pathway to NFL success. Your bread and butter can’t be a 50-50 ball so to speak.

 

I think George Pickens is more a contested catch guy than he is a separator but he sort of separates at the catch point with tremendous agility rather than just relying on 50/50 balls. Mike Williams (just retired) had a pretty good run with the Chargers as a #2 who was mainly a contested catch guy, couple of thousand yard seasons in there.... and he had less YAC ability than Keon. 

 

But I agree separation is the thing that generally sustains in the NFL and there are not too many guys who make a living as mainly a contested catch monster and the ones that do are better at it than Keon is right now. Keon's pathway to success is as I said pre-draft, big slot or flanker running short in-breaking routes where you get the ball in his hands quickly and let him make things happen. 

[pennstate10]

13 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Elam never had the consistency on display in college and that is a much lower bar in the NCAA than NFL.  It wasn’t about confidence it was about ability.  It was a bad pick and as a Gator fan I said before the draft he was way overrated and was the one player I’d avoid - he was a highly questionable tackler, bit far too often on moves he should know better on, got lost in schemes and lost his man, and relied on his athleticism to get out of bad situations.  Penalties weren’t even an issue I would’ve put on the list but he added that to his repertoire as a pro. I said the same thing about Anthony Richardson. Neither played consistently against far inferior competition but had a lot of athleticism and promise.
 

The Bills have made average players look good at CB with good coaching and development so I think it’s fair to say Elam had every shot to take the starting role but never earned the trust of the staff because he couldn’t be effective doing what they needed him to.  But Benford and White started as rookies.  So I don’t buy narratives that young guys can’t get a shot.  They can but they have to earn it and I think Hairston will.  He’s a good corner from what I’ve seen.  I think the verdict is still out on Bishop and I wouldn’t count on him getting the starting role or ever being a starter.  I hope so, but too many think that it will just fall into place. I don’t see it, and I think the staff is hoping for that but I think they were hoping that last year too. They saw what we saw with the safeties last year. They know more talent there shores up a problem area on D, but Bishop may not be the answer. 

In retrospect, Elam was overdrafted. 
 

Reminds me of Aaron Maybin. He was an outstanding pass rusher for PSU against MAC teams. Great first step. 
 

But no other pass rush ability. He was easily steered outside by quality tackles. I thought he was a 3-4 round pick at best. In fact, I lost a bet when he was drafted in round 1. I was still right. 

[WeckMonster]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I want to remind people that for a while it was conventional wisdom in the league to give WRs three years to determine whether they would work out, but after you got a rash of rookie wonders patience has begun to run out.

 

Of course, this trend has already happened with QBs. Luck, RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick all seemed to explode onto the league at the same time and that became the expectation.

 

Fast forward and you are seeing a multiple high round QB "busts" taking starting roles for other teams. Ask the Browns if they would take a straight up QB trade with the Bucs right now.

 

I'm not promising Coleman success but sweet mercy I think we are rushing to conclusions 

That basically doesn’t work anymore if you want to win a Super Bowl.

 

Super bowls require a portion of your roster delivering more value than their contract.

 

That portion is usually going to come from 1st/2nd rounders on their first contract.

 

if Keon plays great in year 4, he’ll be renegotiating, getting paid and will be a net neutral value.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I want to remind people that for a while it was conventional wisdom in the league to give WRs three years to determine whether they would work out, but after you got a rash of rookie wonders patience has begun to run out.

 

Of course, this trend has already happened with QBs. Luck, RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick all seemed to explode onto the league at the same time and that became the expectation.

 

Fast forward and you are seeing a multiple high round QB "busts" taking starting roles for other teams. Ask the Browns if they would take a straight up QB trade with the Bucs right now.

 

I'm not promising Coleman success but sweet mercy I think we are rushing to conclusions 

The fact that Beane signed 3 veteran WRs in the offseason may be indicative that he's seen enough of Coleman that he's not sold on the guy.  There's rushing to conclusions and there's also observing the actions of a team's management-two totally different things where it may look like the same conclusion.  

The Bills are going to keep the top 5 or 6 WRs, and unfortunately for Coleman, he may not be one of them.