Remember the Run ‘n Shoot Offense?

[st pete gogolak]

Thought it might be nice to have a quick break from draft talk.  The run ‘n shoot offense was groundbreaking in its late 80’s early 90’s heyday.  Four wides, no TE, QB under center with one RB. Houston Oilers were primary users. Went away when D’s decided best way to attack it was make sure QB was hit every time he attempted a pass. Of course, four wides are still in use as occasional formation.  
 

What’s interesting is that with one significant addition, Bills would be in a unique position to run a ton of run ‘n shoot. Would that happen? Of course not. I think McDermott and Brady would put four TE’s out there if they had the opportunity. But look at our personnel on offense and what makes a run ‘n shoot click. 
 

Great offensive line? Check. 
 

RB who can cause havoc running against 6 DB’s? Check.

 

Mobile QB with great arm who can also do major damage running the ball against 6 DB’s? Check and check.

 

Two dangerous slot receivers? Shakir yes but also Coleman. A lot of chatter last year about how Coleman could be a real weapon as a big slot.  Samuel #3.

 

Two outside wides?  Well, no.  But imagine if we had acquired DK Metcalf with Palmer on the other side.  
 

Of course, you don’t want Josh running as much as he did in the past so the time has already past when this would be a go to option. Neverless, I’d like to see a healthy dose of four wides this year, especially if we add Moore or someone similar. I’d like to see Coleman flourish as a big slot.

[The Jokeman]

Too bad Jack Pardee isn't around anymore maybe we can find out where June Jones is. 

[Gregg]

I remember it couldn't protect a 35-3 lead in the 2nd half.

[DrBob806]

The Bills ran a modified version of it, that's how they got to 4 SBs. 

 

It didn't work vs the NFC East teams😭

[shane nelson]

It failed because it was always full throttle and no running game to burn the clock.

 

I am not coach, but like the K-Gun the R&S is more of situational formation in today's game.    

[Mikie2times]

I think Colemans natural position is big slot. Makes sense if he needs a little help getting off the ball. Just a crowded area for our WR's. The first half of the comeback was an absolute clinic. One of the best I ever recall seeing. But classic case of systems failing when competition increased. It was hard for them to protect leads. 

[chongli]

Detroit with Barry Sanders used it too.

[SoonerBillsFan]

Need 4 WR to pull it off.  They didn't need a TE except short yardage.  Kelly ran it in the USFL.

[MJS]

Defenses are FAR more advanced and complex today, and they have way more speed to keep up with stuff like that.

 

That is why the league is trending back to bigger personnel and the run game, because they can take advantage of the smaller, faster defenses that have evolved over the last couple of decades.

[QCity]

As a package with very limited use? Sure. But you're correct, no organization wants their QB hit that much. Moon did put up some crazy numbers for that era though.

[Dunkirk Donski]

I believe the technical term was “chuck and duck”

[chris heff]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Too bad Jack Pardee isn't around anymore maybe we can find out where June Jones is. 

Start in Hawaii.

[Ray Finkel]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Need 4 WR to pull it off.  They didn't need a TE except short yardage.  Kelly ran it in the USFL.

Mouse Davis was the OC for the Gamblers

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Need 4 WR to pull it off.  They didn't need a TE except short yardage.  Kelly ran it in the USFL.

Mouse Davis was the OC for the Gamblers

[Redblood]

I remember those days. Teams won alot of games in the ol r & s

[Starr Almighty]

Heyward and Givins were fun to watch

[billsintaiwan]

10 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Too bad Jack Pardee isn't around anymore maybe we can find out where June Jones is. 

Fending off lawsuits from punahou high school girls. Ha

The Comeback happens against no other offense!

[bmur66]

You mean the Chuck and Duck offense?

[ProcessTruster]

17 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Thought it might be nice to have a quick break from draft talk.  The run ‘n shoot offense was groundbreaking in its late 80’s early 90’s heyday.  Four wides, no TE, QB under center with one RB. Houston Oilers were primary users. Went away when D’s decided best way to attack it was make sure QB was hit every time he attempted a pass. Of course, four wides are still in use as occasional formation.  
 

What’s interesting is that with one significant addition, Bills would be in a unique position to run a ton of run ‘n shoot. Would that happen? Of course not. I think McDermott and Brady would put four TE’s out there if they had the opportunity. But look at our personnel on offense and what makes a run ‘n shoot click. 
 

Great offensive line? Check. 
 

RB who can cause havoc running against 6 DB’s? Check.

 

Mobile QB with great arm who can also do major damage running the ball against 6 DB’s? Check and check.

 

Two dangerous slot receivers? Shakir yes but also Coleman. A lot of chatter last year about how Coleman could be a real weapon as a big slot.  Samuel #3.

 

Two outside wides?  Well, no.  But imagine if we had acquired DK Metcalf with Palmer on the other side.  
 

Of course, you don’t want Josh running as much as he did in the past so the time has already past when this would be a go to option. Neverless, I’d like to see a healthy dose of four wides this year, especially if we add Moore or someone similar. I’d like to see Coleman flourish as a big slot.

two high shell takes it away.   the Sanders/Beasley/Brown days are over people.  2020 was a long time ago. fun while it lasted when everyone thought Josh sucked.  That is no longer the case. 

 

and they still led the league is scoring.   

 

hope the bills win a SB so everyone will stop wishing on a 2020 repeat F-G-S.  its getting old

 

move on .  

[Yard Monkey]

Maybe if we had a GM that wasn’t scared to leave the station and get on the WR train we could run a revolutionary offense like that. Thanks Beane!

 

It would be really great to shift to a bold WR focused offense instead of the crap we have now that is only top 2 in the league

[Big Turk]

19 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Thought it might be nice to have a quick break from draft talk.  The run ‘n shoot offense was groundbreaking in its late 80’s early 90’s heyday.  Four wides, no TE, QB under center with one RB. Houston Oilers were primary users. Went away when D’s decided best way to attack it was make sure QB was hit every time he attempted a pass. Of course, four wides are still in use as occasional formation.  
 

What’s interesting is that with one significant addition, Bills would be in a unique position to run a ton of run ‘n shoot. Would that happen? Of course not. I think McDermott and Brady would put four TE’s out there if they had the opportunity. But look at our personnel on offense and what makes a run ‘n shoot click. 
 

Great offensive line? Check. 
 

RB who can cause havoc running against 6 DB’s? Check.

 

Mobile QB with great arm who can also do major damage running the ball against 6 DB’s? Check and check.

 

Two dangerous slot receivers? Shakir yes but also Coleman. A lot of chatter last year about how Coleman could be a real weapon as a big slot.  Samuel #3.

 

Two outside wides?  Well, no.  But imagine if we had acquired DK Metcalf with Palmer on the other side.  
 

Of course, you don’t want Josh running as much as he did in the past so the time has already past when this would be a go to option. Neverless, I’d like to see a healthy dose of four wides this year, especially if we add Moore or someone similar. I’d like to see Coleman flourish as a big slot.

 

Fun fact, Jim Kelly ran that offense in the USFL prior to coming to Buffalo under OC "Mouse" Davis and there were some concepts from that he brought to the K-Gun offense as well.

 

Defenses figured it out and there were too many protection issues and the QB's ended up taking an awful beating by the end of the year...but some concepts for sure have become mainstays in the "spread" offenses we see today, just added different personnel packages to run them out of.

 

Here are a lot of Run 'N Shoot playbooks from actual teams and OC's that ran them if anyone likes to geek out over that kind of stuff like I do...it includes the playbook Kelly would have run with the Gamblers in the USFL.

 

Looking at these sometimes makes my head spin with the amount of knowledge these players must both memorize and be able to recall instantly at any given time.  "Dumb" football players aren't really a thing.

 

https://runandshootoffense.com/playbooks/

Edited 6 hours ago by Big Turk