Simon Posted January 2 Posted January 2 On 1/2/2025 at 10:03 PM, UKBillFan said: I guess it's stats against the eye test. Stats say they're doing well. The eye test suggests something different......It feels like, particularly since the Rams onwards, teams have drove at will on the Bills, particularly in the first half. Expand Every single defense in the NFL gives up a couple drives a a game. All this overwrought handwringing that the Bills do the same as every other team and are doomed because of it is not reflective of reality, imo. 1 Quote
Stretch Posted January 2 Posted January 2 On 1/2/2025 at 10:12 PM, Kelly to Allen said: What is the criteria? Why did the criteria change year to year? Why was precedent broken? Why was real precedent broken back to back years? Why wasn't the exact precedent not broken for previous QBs? Including QBs who already won a championship? If any of the answers are contradictory, ( which they will be), the media member should lose their voting privileges Expand I am not as concerned about 3 MVPs before a SB, that is taking into account playoff performance which the MVP is not based on. But if they vote for a QB whose team was not a top 2 seed, that is quite a change from previous votes. Quote
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 2 Posted January 2 (edited) On 1/2/2025 at 10:12 PM, UKBillFan said: Is it the same voters every year? My big question would be why do stats matter this year when they weren't a priority last year. Expand I think team success also matters and I feel like the Bills struggled most of the year last year. Then they stole the division from Miami late. Plus there was some negative energy swirling around Allen last year with the turnover talk and Diggs. Edited January 2 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote
UKBillFan Posted January 2 Posted January 2 On 1/2/2025 at 11:08 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think team success also matters and I feel like the Bills struggled most of the year last year. Then they stole the division from Miami late. Plus there was some negative energy swirling around Allen last year with the turnover talk and Diggs. Expand That explains why Burrow is probably out of the running. I say probably but there seems to be a push for him of sorts. The other thing which perhaps held Josh back was Dorsey's sacking. I'm not sure if any QB has won the MVP after an OC change due to poor performance. Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 2 Posted January 2 On 1/2/2025 at 11:06 PM, Stretch said: I am not as concerned about 3 MVPs before a SB, that is taking into account playoff performance which the MVP is not based on. But if they vote for a QB whose team was not a top 2 seed, that is quite a change from previous votes. Expand Historical precedent including playoff performances and super bowl victories has always played into the award as an unwritten rule. Historical equity of a player has always played into the award in all sports. Quote
MDH Posted January 2 Posted January 2 (edited) On 1/2/2025 at 11:06 PM, Stretch said: I am not as concerned about 3 MVPs before a SB Expand I think it should come into the equation. If this year is virtually a dead heat why would they give Lamar his 3rd MVP before the Allen gets one, when Allen has - easily - been the better QB during his career? These are legacy awards and the legacy they’re leaving doesn’t tell the actual story of their careers. Edited January 2 by MDH 1 1 1 Quote
zow2 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/2/2025 at 10:11 PM, Kelly to Allen said: The MVP race is over obviously and again congrats to Allen, the first of many more. But with the few voters who do vote for Lamar They need to explain why precedent should be broken. No QB has ever Expand It’s going to be fairly overwhelming in favor of Allen, just like it was for Lamar last season. Reason being is that people aren’t going to place their 1st place vote for who they know is the losing candidate. I’d make a healthy wager that Lamar won’t win a 3rd MVP until he reaches a Super Bowl at minimum,, probably would have to win it. 1 Quote
RiotAct Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 1:32 AM, zow2 said: It’s going to be fairly overwhelming in favor of Allen, just like it was for Lamar last season. Reason being is that people aren’t going to place their 1st place vote for who they know is the losing candidate. I’d make a healthy wager that Lamar won’t win a 3rd MVP until he reaches a Super Bowl at minimum,, probably would have to win it. Expand isn’t the MVP voting only for the regular season? Quote
Doc Brown Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 3:42 AM, RiotAct said: isn’t the MVP voting only for the regular season? Expand It is but part of voting fatigue in this case might come to past poor play in the playoffs by Lamar. 1 1 Quote
Scott7975 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) On 1/2/2025 at 10:16 PM, Simon said: Every single defense in the NFL gives up a couple drives a a game. All this overwrought handwringing that the Bills do the same as every other team and are doomed because of it is not reflective of reality, imo. Expand What people remember is not getting off the field on third down. Especially third and long. They havent been very good. Its turnovers saving them and thats not something you can really rely on. The pass rush has also been up and down. They have given up the 4th most 1st downs and 4th worst 1st down % They are bottom 7 in sacks 7th worst in completion % 12th worst in yards allowed passing 7th most passing TDs Those stats dont even touch rushing stats yet. Those are just passing against stats. The defense outside of turnovers has not been good. I give them a little bit of a pass because injuries and reload year but they still haven't been good and they always seem to have injury problems every year. Edited January 3 by Scott7975 1 1 Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) On 1/3/2025 at 3:42 AM, RiotAct said: isn’t the MVP voting only for the regular season? Expand No. It's filled with all kinds of precedent, otherwise anyone could technically win it, with any stats , with any narrative. Hypothetically a te could win it because he's a great blocker. It's mostly a QB award Has specific precedent in numbers and seeding And has other historical precedent Historical equity of the player is also a part The award is usually spread out amongst the 4-6 greats of an era. This is why for example Michael Jordan/ Shaq didn't get it every year even though you could technically. There is also a precedent where you don't get ( multiple MVPs) until you start winning championships. Maybe you get 1 or 2, but eventually it has to be validated with rings So for example, if Allen wins the Superbowl, and next year it's close again, the precedent would be to favor Allen as he has won a championship. If Allen doesn't win the super bowl, it in theory should be harder for him to win MVP again, because with multiple MVPs brings more responsibility to validate your status and the prestige of the award. The award becomes cheapened when the recipient is continually getting outplayed in the biggest moments and biggest of moments like championships The MVP is the second greatest accomplishment or accolade a QB can have. Obviously a super bowl championship is the top accomplishment. It's a very serious award and because Allen already has 3 top 5 finishes in MVP voting, plus a MVP, if he wins the Superbowl it will likely cement his status as a top ten all time great QB at age 28. Edited January 3 by Kelly to Allen Quote
Doc Brown Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 6:15 AM, Scott7975 said: Expand Hey, Bills media. I know you're probably run by some brilliant liberal arts major. However, maybe when the outside skeptics believe that this is more of a lifetime achievement award than how Allen actually performed this year..............you might not want to plaster the graphic with unbelievable stats that date back to his rookie season. 1 Quote
HOUSE Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) The voting is flawed, one mediocre late season game and the talking heads pounce and SOME PEOPLE LISTEN. If it was up to me, no MVP, it's become to political Edited January 3 by HOUSE 1 Quote
CincyBillsFan Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 3:42 AM, RiotAct said: isn’t the MVP voting only for the regular season? Expand Yes it is. But if I'm a voter and twice I've awarded Jackson the MVP for his regular season play only to see him flame out in the playoffs that same season I'm going to think long and hard before giving him a 3rd MVP until he shows that it translates to his post season success. 2 1 Quote
Delete this Account 1 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 2:43 PM, Warriorspikes51 said: Allen is a 98 overall on Madden now Expand Good thing we have him locked up. The Jets would be all over him if they could. 1 Quote
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 2:35 PM, HOUSE said: The voting is flawed, one mediocre late season game and the talking heads pounce and SOME PEOPLE LISTEN. If it was up to me, no MVP, it's become to political Expand It really is flawed. IMO it should be a vote from every NFL coaching staff member Instead it's what 50 AP writers? Many of whom have agendas based on whatever 1 Quote
The Wiz Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 2:47 PM, Warriorspikes51 said: It really is flawed. IMO it should be a vote from every NFL coaching staff member Instead it's what 50 AP writers? Many of whom have agendas based on whatever Expand On 1/3/2025 at 2:35 PM, HOUSE said: The voting is flawed, one mediocre late season game and the talking heads pounce and SOME PEOPLE LISTEN. If it was up to me, no MVP, it's become to political Expand This is the part that worries me the most because of this weekend. Mike Giardi was on Buffalo Plus this week and flat out said that he knows that there are some voters that don't watch the games and just look at the stats online. Giving someone a vote that doesn't even watch the games is laughable to me. 1 Quote
dave mcbride Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/3/2025 at 2:47 PM, Warriorspikes51 said: It really is flawed. IMO it should be a vote from every NFL coaching staff member Instead it's what 50 AP writers? Many of whom have agendas based on whatever Expand No, not AP writers. Many talking heads and ex players too. Here are the voters from last year: https://apnews.com/article/ap-nfl-awards-panel-e71a6a4641246b75abcca6a553bc0dab 2 Quote
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