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Do think Beane will make any trades before week 1?


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53 minutes ago, Conlan58 said:

Calling it now - Will Clapp gets traded to the Chargers for a late round pick. 

He played 100% of the Chargers' offensive snaps from game four to his injury in game 14, last season. It was reported that his injury wasn't a long-term concern, but they IRed him, and let him walk at the end of the season. Their O-line far underperformed to expectations last season. It'd surprise me if they were willing to give anything up to bring back a player they dropped.

 

 

Edited by Rocky Landing
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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

In years past, with a deep and talented roster Beane has found some value for a guy who either finished further down the depth chart at a crowded position or was someone that they were going to cut.  But this year is a little bit different with a bigger mix of vets and youth than we have seen in the past, so it's a bit harder to project right now.  We also have three 4th round picks next year, which might open up the possibility for Beane to pull the trigger to bolster somewhere if another team makes an interesting player available as we also have a little cap flexibility too.    

 

So, is there anyone or even a positional group on the roster where you think Beane may try and trade someone out and get a little value for?  And do you think Beane may make a trade to bolster a positional group, and if so, which one?

 

 

Yeah, I think he's likely to try. OL would be my guess. I'd say La'el but I don't think we'd get anything for him at this point. Whether he can manage it is questionable and will be so till we see how things look at training camp. If it happens, I'd guess OL.

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Yes.  I do not expect it to be a substantial move though.I think they flip a lineman or defensive back for a day 3 pick.   Buffalo is a little deeper than people think.  A few guys that dont make it will be picked up by other teams. 

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Yes-  I think he’ll get a 6th or a 7th for a guy he was going to cut

Calling Shakir and Samuel jags IS throwing shade. Are they great players?  Haven’t shown to be yet, but that doesn’t make them jags.  

No, realistically they are the definition of Just A Guy at this point in their careers.  Nothing special at all.    I like them both, but they haven’t proven to be anything more than JAGs at this point and they really haven’t even done as much as Gabe Davis did to make people believe he was special.

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I foresee some bottom-of-the roster tweaks such as trading a veteran OL for a late-round pick (Clapp to SD was mentioned by another poster above and I see that as a good example of what might occur).  I could also see a Ryan Bates-type acquisition - acquiring a developmental guy from another team who is at a crowded position and unlikely to make their roster for a similarly situated player with the Bills.  Maybe a guy they targeted in the 7th round or UDFA but who signed elsewhere.  Bates turned out to be a pretty valuable player for a few years - backed up the entire OL (all 5 positions), started at guard for a bit, and was ultimately flipped for a draft pick.

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I could see potentially trading some linemen away on either side for late round picks.  Also wouldn’t shock me to see them go after a corner or WR if one became available.

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I concur with the widespread sentiment that we will more than likely only make moves to dump guys who were unlikely to make our 53 and acquire late rounds picks in 2025 or 2026. 

 

I also will remind people that Beane sometimes does bottom roster player for bottom roster player.  That's how we got Ryan Bates... In 2019 we traded Eli Harold to Philly for Bates in a bottom roster player swap.  We had tons of DEs, and they had tons of IOL so it made sense.  Don't be shocked if something like this is done as well if the Bills aren't happy with depth at a certain spot, but have boat loads at another. 

 

The likelihood of an "Impact Trade" that really moves the needle is almost zero IMO, we're not in a cap space to add guys who are overpaid and have worn out their welcome. If a team has a starter on a reasonable deal, that means we're going to need to mortgage the farm... Again not going to happen.  We're in a re-tooling mode where we're cycling out old dudes on huge deals for youth. We simply can't afford to give up a bunch of premium assets for 1 guy.  We need more than that long term, so it's a bad business decision to give up those picks we added unless it's a home run, which is highly unlikely.

 

Beane is smart, he plays it close to the vest and wheels and deals every year to add some depth picks etc... I expect him to be his usual prudent self and not panic or overreach at this point, but he'll definitely play some bottom roster shuffle games if we have a dance partner.

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No.  We need to go to camp with what we have and let the new and young guys develop.  We don't need to keep trading for players, we need to draft the right ones and develop them.

 

We need to sit on every dollar we can the rest of this year and hopefully have some roll over to next year.

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2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

No, realistically they are the definition of Just A Guy at this point in their careers.  Nothing special at all.    I like them both, but they haven’t proven to be anything more than JAGs at this point and they really haven’t even done as much as Gabe Davis did to make people believe he was special.

Shakir’s play last season was NOT just a guy.  His stats- whatever-  watch his play.  He’s not a jag. He was a very good WR last season.  

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i can’t comment so much on Samuel last season as I only watched him vs the Bills.  My knowledge of his abilities and his former QBs suggest that he’ll be more than a jag with 17.

 

to me, just a guy can be replaced by another just a guy. I consider Hollins and MVS jags.  I don’t think they can step in for shakir and Samuel and produce similarly.

 

Seems to me that we have different opinions of the term.  All good

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

No, realistically they are the definition of Just A Guy at this point in their careers.  Nothing special at all.    I like them both, but they haven’t proven to be anything more than JAGs at this point and they really haven’t even done as much as Gabe Davis did to make people believe he was special.

 

Leading all NFL WR's in catch % and yards per target by a large margin is not something JAGS typically do.  Labeling a young ascending player who excelled as soon as he got the reps half way through his 2nd season a JAG makes no sense what so ever.  And Samuel has on multiple occasions put up more receptions than Gabes best season while playing with JAG QB's while Davis had Allen in a pass heavy offense his whole career.

 

If you want to say Shakir is still unproven in an expanded role, sure that is fair.  To say he is a JAG because we had an idiot OC in Dorsey who didn't use him much the first season and a half of his career isn't really a fair labeling or analysis of him.

 

 

Edited by Alphadawg7
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1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

There was this caller named Dennis on WGR.  He stated something along the lines that Beane selected Coleman knowing he will never be that elite, top end WR.  Give Allen good to solid weapons and good protection.  I looked at the top WR contracts.  Of the top 20, only 3 have Super Bowl rings and one of those Tyreek Hill, didn't win his with the Dolphins.   Allen spreads the ball out well...maybe he doesn't need that $30 million guy eating all that cap.

 

So I can agree with him putting that money towards the DL.

But then where do you want to put the money?  The Bills will have a dirt cheap RB room, moderate to low priced OL, high priced QB, and dirt cheap WRs too?  Just look around our division, that's not what the Jets are doing (Aaron/Keenan/G Wilson even Lazard).  Dolphins will soon have Tua/Tyreek/Waddle.

 

I would like one more good WR to move the Hollins/MVS/Claypool group further down the bench never to see a significant role during game time.  Maybe not a $30M guy but an outside WR with reliable hands, good separation, and a track record.  

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3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

But then where do you want to put the money?  The Bills will have a dirt cheap RB room, moderate to low priced OL, high priced QB, and dirt cheap WRs too?  Just look around our division, that's not what the Jets are doing (Aaron/Keenan/G Wilson even Lazard).  Dolphins will soon have Tua/Tyreek/Waddle.

 

I would like one more good WR to move the Hollins/MVS/Claypool group further down the bench never to see a significant role during game time.  Maybe not a $30M guy but an outside WR with reliable hands, good separation, and a track record.  

 

I think Beane wants to keep the trenches strong.  I see him putting large contract money into CB and DL/OL.

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56 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Shakir’s play last season was NOT just a guy.  His stats- whatever-  watch his play.  He’s not a jag. He was a very good WR last season.  

.

i can’t comment so much on Samuel last season as I only watched him vs the Bills.  My knowledge of his abilities and his former QBs suggest that he’ll be more than a jag with 17.

 

to me, just a guy can be replaced by another just a guy. I consider Hollins and MVS jags.  I don’t think they can step in for shakir and Samuel and produce similarly.

 

Seems to me that we have different opinions of the term.  All good


Agree to disagree on this one.  I like Shakir and have great hopes for him, but he didn’t win playing time in his first 1.5 seasons.  You can blame whoever you want, but the fact is, he couldn’t get on the field and didn’t make a huge difference when he did.   Did he show some promise at the end of last year?  Yes.  Have a million guys done the same thing, even for Buffalo and never became more than a splash in the pan?  Yep.   So AT THIS JUNCTURE, he’s a JAG until he proves otherwise.  People were convinced Davis was going to be a #1 after the back half of 2022, we saw that play out.  There were delusions around here that Robert Foster could be traded for a 1st round pick after his ~4 game eruption, etc.  I get it, we are all fans, we all like our guys, but let’s not put the cart before the horse.   
 

There is an argument for Samuel being a high end JAG, he’s had some success, but if he were special, you wouldn’t have gotten him here for way less than Gabe Davis money.  Just be real with yourself on that.  His contract tells you what the league thinks, regardless of our feelings.

 

ALL that said, JA has elevated everyone around him, I expect him to do the same for both these guys and the volume they get SHOULD make their numbers good this year.

 

49 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Leading all NFL WR's in catch % and yards per target by a large margin is not something JAGS typically do.  Labeling a young ascending player who excelled as soon as he got the reps half way through his 2nd season a JAG makes no sense what so ever.  And Samuel has on multiple occasions put up more receptions than Gabes best season while playing with JAG QB's while Davis had Allen in a pass heavy offense his whole career.

 

If you want to say Shakir is still unproven in an expanded role, sure that is fair.  To say he is a JAG because we had an idiot OC in Dorsey who didn't use him much the first season and a half of his career isn't really a fair labeling or analysis of him.

 

 

You are cherry picking one extremely trivial stat, based on about 6 games of real action.  It’s a WRs job to catch a ball.  What did his catches actually do for the team is another question.   He looked pretty good in a 4th/5th option tile last year, but ya know what that makes you? A JAG, because a big time player isn’t a 4th or 5th option and you can’t argue the fact that Diggs, Kincaid and Cook were options ahead of him and Davis really was more of a target than him until he found himself in the dog house late in the year (rightfully so).    I think Shakir has a lot of potential, but it looks like he will be asked to be the #2 WR this year unless the rookie can jump in and start and I just don’t see that happening.   I hope I’m wrong on all accounts, Coleman is an instant star, Shakir goes off for 80 catches and Samuel becomes Debo.  That would be amazing.  I just think we are more likely to see a similar situation to what KC dealt with early in the year last season with TEs leading the way, relying on the run game and hoping for WRs to make some timely catches vs the greatest show on turf.

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Only incoming trade I could see is for a kicker if Bass struggles in camp and pre-season. 

 

I imagine he will find someone near the bottom of the roster to flip for a day 3 pick going out though. Imagine a lineman or a linebacker. 

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3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Can the Bills trade MVS, and avoid the dead cap hit?

 

 

 

What is it with the undervaluing MVS on here?  Did everyone not watch KC's last 2 playoff runs?   

 

He was a very important player for them in the post-season.  

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3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

What is it with the undervaluing MVS on here?  Did everyone not watch KC's last 2 playoff runs?   

 

He was a very important player for them in the post-season.  

He has the lowest completion percentage, and the worst drop rate of any receiver on the team who has taken a regular season snap, RBs, and TEs included. And that was with the second best QB in the league. 

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47 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You are cherry picking one extremely trivial stat, based on about 6 games of real action.  It’s a WRs job to catch a ball.  

 

Im not picking one trivial stat, I gave you two very impressive stats that JAGS around the league don't come anywhere near accomplishing.

 

47 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

What did his catches actually do for the team is another question.  

 

A lot...he was our best WR in the Brady era and led the team in receiving while Brady was the OC.  Shakir also had 2 TD's in the postseason and the one aginst the Steelers was not only incredible and one of the best plays of the year, but it sealed the win for us.  

 

Check his reel out from last year, these are big impactful plays including the Steelers TD.  He has a nickname of Deebo Lite because he was such a beast after the catch.  He made a bunch of big plays for us last year, not just some random easy catches anyone makes.  

 

SHAKIR 2023 HIGHLIGHTS

 

47 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

He looked pretty good in a 4th/5th option tile last year, but ya know what that makes you? A JAG, because a big time player isn’t a 4th or 5th option and you can’t argue the fact that Diggs, Kincaid and Cook were options ahead of him and Davis really was more of a target than him until he found himself in the dog house late in the year (rightfully so).    

  • Who led the team in receiving after Brady took over?  Shakir.  
    • Shakir - 438 yards, 2 TD
    Diggs - 388 yards, 1 TD
  • With the game on the line against KC on the final drive, who did Bills and Allen look too...Diggs or Shakir?  Shakir
47 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I think Shakir has a lot of potential, but it looks like he will be asked to be the #2 WR this year unless the rookie can jump in and start and I just don’t see that happening.   I hope I’m wrong on all accounts, Coleman is an instant star, Shakir goes off for 80 catches and Samuel becomes Debo.  That would be amazing.  I just think we are more likely to see a similar situation to what KC dealt with early in the year last season with TEs leading the way, relying on the run game and hoping for WRs to make some timely catches vs the greatest show on turf.

 

Im just confused how you can simultaneously say he has a lot of potential and also call him a JAG.  That doesn't make any sense, I mean by your take you might as well call Marvin Harrison Jr. a JAG too since he hasn't proven he isn't one to your standards.  

 

Obviously, we need to see what he does this year in a more expanded role, so I am not crowning him yet even though I fully believe he will take another step this year.  But to call him a JAG right now is crazy to me.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

But then where do you want to put the money?  The Bills will have a dirt cheap RB room, moderate to low priced OL, high priced QB, and dirt cheap WRs too?  Just look around our division, that's not what the Jets are doing (Aaron/Keenan/G Wilson even Lazard).  Dolphins will soon have Tua/Tyreek/Waddle.

 

How many playoff games have either of those teams won?  

 

Miami really?  That is the model you want to follow?  In 2 years with the fastest roster in NFL history and one of the best groups of weapons in all of the NFL they have managed to only beat 2 teams in 2 seasons with a .500 or better record.  They have not won their division, and blew a 4 game lead with 5 games to go this year with 2 guys who at one point were in the MVP convo in Tua and Hill this year.  They have not even won a playoff game.  They are the blue print for what not to do and I actually doubt if they can even make the playoffs this year.  

 

Last year, with Tua and 6 games to go, they lost 5 in a row.  Tua missed the final game of the season where a 3rd string QB came in and snapped the 5 game skid to sneak into the playoffs otherwise they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.  They then again barely made the playoffs this past season again and now this year, they have a worse roster than last year.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

I would like one more good WR to move the Hollins/MVS/Claypool group further down the bench never to see a significant role during game time.  Maybe not a $30M guy but an outside WR with reliable hands, good separation, and a track record.  

 

There are plenty of places to where we can and will need to put the money.  There are people on the team who will have contract decisions looming over next 2 seasons like Groot, Shakir, Kincaid, Cook, Brown, etc within 1 to 2 years.  What are we going to do a Cornerback if we don't extend Rasul?  What about an elite pass rusher?  Or a big time DT to replace DaQuan at some point here shortly?  We still aren't set at Safety.  

 

Now, if our WR room proves to be lacking this season, absolutely I can see Beane being aggressive next season at WR.  But if our offense is humming with this group, you don't just go sink a ton of cap space into it for the sake of doing it when there are other areas we can also upgrade and young players who if they keep ascending this year we are going to need to start thinking about locking them up too.  

 

 

Edited by Alphadawg7
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