Harrison Butker…oy vey…what a commencement “speech”

[ExiledInIllinois]

39 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

To quote Chesterton, "We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green."

 

Developed countries are losing population rapidly and people respond to the idea of marriage and family like it's wrong.    

Immigrants in this country are having babies like rabbits.  Yet, they live in abject poverty. They are pro-family.

35 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I direct IVF labs for a living.  I’m as pro-family as you can get.  But the comments he made indicate women should be subjugated to their husbands.  I don’t want my two daughters to feel that way.  Nor do I want friends and colleagues that are members of the LGBTQ community to feel persecuted, as apparently Butker would.

Totally agree.

 

There is a certain branch of the Abrahamic religion that is very pro what you speak against. Wonder how people feel about that?

[muppy]

11 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

To quote Chesterton, "We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green."

 

Developed countries are losing population rapidly and people respond to the idea of marriage and family like it's wrong.    

good morning. I hadn't thought about the bolded as being true .  It makes sense due to how expensive it is to survive in the world today

 

I don't think traditional marriage or family values are wrong.  

 

this thread could be civil amongst the brethren here at TBD if we keep religion and politics out of it

 

lol

 

I'm half kidding. Or just not post in it and it goes away down the thread pike. I think these discussions could be fruitful though. In some way. jmo

 

 

Edited May 17 by muppy

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Reading comprehension not your thing?

 

Calling Butker rich is what I suggested. The other poster mistakenly called him a “millionaire” which is a more precise term.  It is better for vilifying someone if you use vague terms.  
 

The other poster implied a causal relationship between Butker’s wealth and his speech.  In fact he focused on the wealth and really didn’t dissect the content of the speech at all.  It’s as if a “poor” person couldn’t possibly have a similar opinion.  This is good because it furthers the cause of the proletariat revolution which clearly will solve all of the world’s problems. I was just pointing out that millionaire was a bad word to use because it limits the pool of villains.  You shouldn’t do that.  Villains are always needed.

My reading comprehension is strong which is why I was able to parse through your histrionics and respond with salient points.

 

Villains are indeed needed.  To play your game, replace rich or even millionaires with "Hollywood elites" and you will stand and applaud at the notion that the opinions of a group of wealthy people are totally irrelevant. It seems certain groups you will accept as categorically out of touch with the experience of the common man but other groups, which may be aspirational for you, should be protected.  God forbid, EII does the same for fear of "stifling" the speech of the marginalized "rich".

 

"Rich" may be a politically convenient term that is often used to lump any household that makes about $300k a year up to the generational wealthy and billionaires.  That's a point worth exploring that does not require invocation of Pol Pot or Marxist revolution.  However, in this case the subject is Butker who makes a little over $4 million a year.  He's not living the life of a Musk, or Bill Gates, or a Warren Buffet (well maybe he is because Buffet is notoriously boring and cheap) but that type of annual earnings with any financial discipline suits pretty much any definition of rich.  Well, except for the definitions of rich which involve a mothers love, or house full of kids, or getting right with Jesus.  Those are utter bull####.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

To quote Chesterton, "We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green."

 

Developed countries are losing population rapidly and people respond to the idea of marriage and family like it's wrong.    

Developed countries have declining birth rates because the cost of living, buying houses, and raising children has outpaced wages.  In many developed nations, there is also an expectation that children will take care of their elderly parents.  That math is a lot easier when families had 4 or more children as an insurance policy and for cheap agrarian labor.  Think one child policy in China. 

 

Simply having more children does nothing but exacerbate the underlying issues.

[eball]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Why do you even care how many agree with him? I certainly don't care. And why are you looking to start bitter arguments? Can't you do this on PPP?

 

Maybe you should go lose another arguement with @BADOLBILZ. You are about 0 for 100. If I could get odds on these matchups I would be a multi-millionaire.

 

Bill, why so bitter?  And I don't "argue" with Badol...he picks on me relentlessly and I ignore him.  I have no time for arrogant pricks like that.  I'm a football fan, and I call it like I see it.  I started the Butker thread because it's getting a lot of attention.  If you don't like it you don't have to participate.

 

You're an angry man.  It's a shame.

 

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

To quote Chesterton, "We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green."

 

Developed countries are losing population rapidly and people respond to the idea of marriage and family like it's wrong.    

I haven’t seen a single person taking issue with marriage or family.

 

Disagreeing that a woman’s only place is at home raising kids does not mean you think the idea of marriage and family is wrong.

 

In Butker’s views, it would be wrong for a woman to have a career. It would be wrong for a man to stay at home and raise the kids.

 

thats not “pro family”. That’s misogyny. 

[Bob Jones]

Somewhat pertinent to this matter. Edit to Add: Seems that in this case, as in many other similar cases over the past several years, the pitchfork carrying mob coming after Butker has taken his comments out of context and/or “read between the lines” to infer something he never said. That’s the gist of this tweet below. And I’d bet the farm that 90% of the people signing petitions, and who are “outraged” over this, have NOT even listened to his whole speech.

 

Edited May 16 by Bob Jones
Words

[Dr. K]

What a clown. An arrogant, privileged clown. 

 

I should add that he has every right to express whatever opinions he likes, and people can take them for whatever they are worth, even if I consider him an arrogant clown. 

Edited May 16 by Dr. K

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, RkFast said:

It was for a very Catholic, traditional school, dude.  The outrage you’re looking for on behalf of the students just isn’t there.  The people who went to this school are on board with his comments.
 

not all

 

https://v16m-default.tiktokcdn-us.com/7ba14f9f9e06d5796e4b9e86cd4d5365/66468d3e/video/tos/useast5/tos-useast5-pve-0068-tx/osSCSFDQREDHcI4umFEQCtBALgqghrfqRmfg6h/?a=1988&bti=NDU3ZjAwOg%3D%3D&ch=0&cr=3&dr=0&lr=tiktok_m&cd=0|0|1|&cv=1&br=4002&bt=2001&cs=0&ds=3&ft=4bBsyMzm8Zmo0jLWZ-4jV~2edpWrKsd.&mime_type=video_mp4&qs=0&rc=OmkzNzVpOTtmZzQ8N2Q1O0BpM3dvam85cnVsczMzZzczNEBiYS0xX2MtNi8xMjBgLjYvYSM1Xl5kMmRrai9gLS1kMS9zcw%3D%3D&vvpl=1&l=20240516164620476BBF3AE1079206E7B6&btag=e00090000

[Mister Defense]

20 hours ago, RkFast said:

A Catholic person at a gathering of Catholic individuals gave a speech where he/she/they promoted the values of living as a Catholic.

 

Now replace the word "Catholic" with the name of any other social/political identity or class and let me know if its still something to be "outraged and offended" about. 

 

Always amazes me how in the modern world where literally everything is looked at through the prism of extreme dogma, the group that basically invented the damned word is the only one thats denounced for practicing it. 

 

??

 

Well, maybe this is true of most Catholic people in the 40's or 50's, but Butker and your views are not relevant to most today.

 

Surprised to see that you state that is their value system, period, is such  a dogmatic way.

 

Shows the extremely narrow, ignorant, and illogical mindset of Butker--and those who think like him...

 

 

Edited May 16 by Mister Defense

[Irv]

Butker made total sense.  Need more people like that in the world of freaks.  

[Mister Defense]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Imagine crapping on someone's beliefs by saying your beliefs are better and his don't matter. That pretty much sums up our world today.

 

Wait, this can be read two ways..

 

You mean that is what Butker did in speech, right?  

26 minutes ago, Irv said:

Butker made total sense.  Need more people like that in the world of freaks.  

 

Fortunately, most adults in this country think the freaks are the narrow minded misogynists who want the world to return to a better time, when women (and many others) had fewer rights and options in life.

 

Actually. we are extremely fortunate this is the case, and I am an optimist maybe--but firmly believe the vast majority of our citizens believe that as well.

 

 

[teef]

15 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

As a Catholic who attended Catholic schools most of my school life, including college, his speech was offensive and misogynistic. I would have booed as should have any self-respecting Catholics. Catholic dogma doesn’t require women to be subservient to their husbands, that’s a gross misinterpretation. His speech was more political than religious, including attacks on Biden, who got us out of the pandemic not Trump, and his demeaning of gays. Even the pope says we should love and be respectful towards gays.

 

Elie Wiesel spoke of acceptance and the dangers of demeaning others because of their race or religion, the opposite of Butker. Your analogy is spurious.

i was going to make this point.  apparently a lot has to do with the catholic school specifically.  i went to 16 years of catholic school, 9 of which were with the jesuits.  i'm from an italian catholic family, and my uncle is a priest, (a retired mary knoll).  Never have i heard these laid out as catholic values.  if this is how he and his family want to live their lives i have no problem with it, but this doesn't strike me as representative of the catholic faith as a whole.  this speech would not have gone over well at all at my college, but it definitely it seem to fit within that school teachings.  i wasn't aware of the college, so i went to their site.  a point was made about having crucifixes in the dorm rooms.  my college you wouldn't even know it was catholic other than the church on campus.

[KDIGGZ]

6 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Wait, this can be read two ways..

 

You mean that is what Butker did in speech, right?  

 

Butker didn't call for women to not be allowed to work. He said it was his wife's experience that she found fulfillment as a mother.

 

The narrow minded ones are the ones calling for him to be cancelled and released from the team for having his own beliefs.

 

Let's imagine a world where he said women should be able to work and people signed petitions to have him kicked off the team. Would you want to live in that world? Or should neither side have that much power. Think about it.

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, he read the room perfectly. He wasn't talking to a pluralist or progressive room. He wasn't talking to this board. The reason students go to a college like that is because their beliefs and ethical sensibility are counter-cultural to the dominant ideology. The polemical edge in the speech was more in the nature of affirming the convictions of the students as they prepare to deal with a society largely indifferent or hostile to their beliefs. And the reaction here is proof of the correctness of that assessment.

 

That makes a lot of sense--all of the female students in the college who worked hard for 4 or more years to earn their degrees really just long to  be wives and mothers more than anything else--that is their actual goal, dream.

 

The degree they have earned, that they are celebrating on this day, based on all of their work, was just a sidebar, a backup. Something to do to while away the hours.

 

I cannot even imagine a sentient adult thinking this would be the case, or even a sentient child.

 

Pretty scary that there are people who think this way.

 

Based on this reasoning, I bet you really think that the only reason these 'chicks' are there is to meet their dream man so they can then get on with their real life,, and just throw that degree in the garbage,

 

 

[Mister Defense]

17 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Butker didn't call for women to not be allowed to work. He said it was his wife's experience that she found fulfillment as a mother.

 

The narrow minded ones are the ones calling for him to be cancelled and released from the team for having his own beliefs.

 

Let's imagine a world where he said women should be able to work and people signed petitions to have him kicked off the team. Would you want to live in that world? Or should neither side have that much power. Think about it.

 

Huh??

 

I know he did not say women "should not be allowed to work", of course--never indicated that he said that. (He would likely have kicked his last field goal in the NFL if he said that.)

 

He said that for most of the women graduating on this day their true goal is really to be mother and wife, more than anything else--including that degree, (and the career it may entail), that they are receiving on this day of their graduation.

 

Butker does not seem to be an actual Christian, but a phony.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

Somewhat pertinent to this matter.

 

It's a mental health crisis too when a young woman is pumping out the children as a stay at home mother while living in abject poverty.

 

Good thing Isabella Butker has her sugar daddy kicker...

[Sweats]

You guys will have to forgive me, but i don't know what in the hell were even talking about anymore.

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 minutes ago, Sweats said:

You guys will have to forgive me, but i don't know what in the hell were even talking about anymore.

Woman supposedly have an innate urge to stay at home and raise children and be homemakers, even if it means living in abject poverty. Which, it doesn't for Isabella Butker, she probably has a nanny and a kitchen bigger than 3 section 8 apartments, combined... Like the politician chick in Alabama. 😆🤣

 

So ladies... If you got that innate urge Mister Butker talks about... Marry your sugar daddy!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16 by ExiledInIllinois

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

My reading comprehension is strong which is why I was able to parse through your histrionics and respond with salient points.

 

Villains are indeed needed.  To play your game, replace rich or even millionaires with "Hollywood elites" and you will stand and applaud at the notion that the opinions of a group of wealthy people are totally irrelevant. It seems certain groups you will accept as categorically out of touch with the experience of the common man but other groups, which may be aspirational for you, should be protected.  God forbid, EII does the same for fear of "stifling" the speech of the marginalized "rich".

 

"Rich" may be a politically convenient term that is often used to lump any household that makes about $300k a year up to the generational wealthy and billionaires.  That's a point worth exploring that does not require invocation of Pol Pot or Marxist revolution.  However, in this case the subject is Butker who makes a little over $4 million a year.  He's not living the life of a Musk, or Bill Gates, or a Warren Buffet (well maybe he is because Buffet is notoriously boring and cheap) but that type of annual earnings with any financial discipline suits pretty much any definition of rich.  Well, except for the definitions of rich which involve a mothers love, or house full of kids, or getting right with Jesus.  Those are utter bull####.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are fixated primarily on his income, then his beliefs, then your own conclusions about his beliefs.  Then, after all of that, you’ve somehow made conclusions about what I think when I’ve offered no opinion about Butker’s speech whatsoever.  In fact, I haven’t even read it and likely wont.  I simply observed the venom spewed at him…..not his opinion…..based on his income.  
 

I’ll agree or disagree with the opinions of any person based on the opinion itself, not based on lumping that person into some category like you’ve repeatedly done as did the poster to whom I originally responded.  None of this has a damn thing to do with Butker’s income despite the apparent raging jealousy you harbor that induces you to twist around the real topic at hand.

 

Butker has the right to his own opinions whether they’re brilliant, moronic, or anywhere in between.  So too do the people you’d incorrectly assume I’d like to stop from speaking.  I might call someone a moron but I’m careful not to lump that moron into some group as if it has some causal effect.  
 

Your irrational post above continues your obsession with “the rich”.  Get over it dude.  You’ve also decided that people’s who have different definitions of rich than yours are full of “utter bs”.  Get over yourself.  

Edited May 16 by 4merper4mer