Herc11 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, The Wiz said: It will be the same as it is now but needs to be declared that they are trying an onside kick prior to lining up. That kind of sucks cause that eliminates surprise on-side kicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just now, Herc11 said: That kind of sucks cause that eliminates surprise on-side kicks There have only been two "surprise" onside kicks that I saw work in my lifetime...New Orleans in the Super Bowl and the Bills in the comeback game (although Houston should have been expecting it). It's just not a big part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc11 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, eball said: There have only been two "surprise" onside kicks that I saw work in my lifetime...New Orleans in the Super Bowl and the Bills in the comeback game (although Houston should have been expecting it). It's just not a big part of the game. A quick Google search came up with this: "In the NFL, about 10 times per year, a head coach pulls a “surprise” onside kick - which I define as one that occurs in the first, second, or third quarter of the game. This century there have been 192 surprise onside kicks. Those have been successful 87 times (45.3 percent).Mar 14, 2020" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Another step towards the inevitability of NFL flag football. While this may change may ultimately not be a bad thing, combined with all the changes it's clear what direction the NFL is headed. I still can't wrap my head around the hip drop tackle thing, but again it's clear they'll be taking contact out of the game before much longer. I don't know the status of any of these CTE cases against the NFL, but as soon as they get held liable, it'll be over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I’ve watched the XFL and I loved it. Finally we get some excitement on kickoffs again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Brand J said: I thought putting it at the 35 was great, but owners amended the rule to put it at the 30, only five more yards given. Oh, I didn't know that. 35 would have been better, but I think the 30 still makes it so kickers don't want to kick it out of the end zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 18 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Bills have plenty of late round picks, I could easily see them drafting a RB with good return ability in round 6 where they have 3 selections. It would be a place where they could roster a player (they usually carry 3 RB's but only have 2 on the roster in Cook and Ty Johnson) and a spot in the draft where you could find a back with a bit of upside and return ability. As far as the new kickoff rule I am OK with it. The kickoff in the traditional form was a very dangerous play and the last few seasons it mostly ended in touchbacks making it kind of a boring play. My only issue is that you have to declare an onsides kick which removes the element of surprise kicks and some strategy. I wish they would go with a rule where in the 4th quarter you can elect to one time instead of a kickoff go with a 4th and 20 to try to keep the ball. Seems like that would be more exciting than a declared onsides kick and make comebacks more possible. I get your point on the onside kick rule and don't necessarily disagree. However, an extremely high percentage of the time everyone knows when the onside kick is coming anyway. Save for the maybe once a year someone tries a surprise onside on a kickoff not near the end of the game. My issue with the 4th and 20 becomes when the team is going for it and fails...but is able to convert due to a DPI, defensive holding the new "hip drop rule" or some other flag influenced by the officials with a judgement call. Would lead to wayyyyyyyyyy more scrutiny than it's worth IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) I like it, because right now the ball just sails through the end zone for a touchback anyways, and the only kickoff returns for TD happen against us it seems like Is there a whistle or something so the 20 players who can't move know when it's time? Edited March 26 by TheFunPolice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just kick it through the end zone to get it at the 30. Either way scoring will go up which is what the NFL wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I get your point on the onside kick rule and don't necessarily disagree. However, an extremely high percentage of the time everyone knows when the onside kick is coming anyway. Save for the maybe once a year someone tries a surprise onside on a kickoff not near the end of the game. My issue with the 4th and 20 becomes when the team is going for it and fails...but is able to convert due to a DPI, defensive holding the new "hip drop rule" or some other flag influenced by the officials with a judgement call. Would lead to wayyyyyyyyyy more scrutiny than it's worth IMO. The 4th and 20 rule has its flaws that's why I think only allowing a team to elect to go for it once in the 4th quarter is a decent measure as yeah a cheap "ticky tack" penalty gives the team going for it a first down without converting the yards. However, I would like to see the penalty rate on 4th and 20 or more conversions. I would imagine defenses knowing that they have a 19 yard cushion would likely play in a penalty averse manner. If the defensive penalty rate is low on those types of plays I would strongly consider implementing that rule if I were the NFL. I don't think you should be able to go for it back to back as a tired defense may lapse but then if you are down three scores you can go for an onside kick if needed. In the end I like to see comebacks from 2 score deficits be more possible late in games, I think it adds a lot more excitement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Why make everything needlessly complicated and chaotic. It was fine the way it was. Could have just moved the kickoff spot back farther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 No more surprise inside kicks is the only downside to this I see. Safety is important on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, Herc11 said: A quick Google search came up with this: "In the NFL, about 10 times per year, a head coach pulls a “surprise” onside kick - which I define as one that occurs in the first, second, or third quarter of the game. This century there have been 192 surprise onside kicks. Those have been successful 87 times (45.3 percent).Mar 14, 2020" This century = 23 seasons of between 256 and 272 games per season, or around 5900 games (not including playoffs), so a surprise onside kick is attempted in roughly 3% of games. I’d say it’s not a big part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourbonboy Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Bills have plenty of late round picks, I could easily see them drafting a RB with good return ability in round 6 where they have 3 selections. It would be a place where they could roster a player (they usually carry 3 RB's but only have 2 on the roster in Cook and Ty Johnson) and a spot in the draft where you could find a back with a bit of upside and return ability. As far as the new kickoff rule I am OK with it. The kickoff in the traditional form was a very dangerous play and the last few seasons it mostly ended in touchbacks making it kind of a boring play. My only issue is that you have to declare an onsides kick which removes the element of surprise kicks and some strategy. I wish they would go with a rule where in the 4th quarter you can elect to one time instead of a kickoff go with a 4th and 20 to try to keep the ball. Seems like that would be more exciting than a declared onsides kick and make comebacks more possible. They do have Darrynton Evans, but I am not here to quibble - I agree I can see picking up a return specialist late in the draft or a cheap free agent. This is a big change, and yards are yards....we should be looking to be proactive and take advantage of this however we can. I want to give Josh the best starting position we can. P.S. Pretty sure the Steelers were thinking the same when they just happened to sign Cordarelle Patterson just hours after the kickoff change was approved. Kickoff return value was minimized before the change..... Edited March 26 by bourbonboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 5 minutes ago, bourbonboy said: They do have Darrynton Evans, but I am not here to quibble - I agree I can see picking up a return specialist late in the draft or a cheap free agent. This is a big change, and yards are yards....we should be looking to be proactive and take advantage of this however we can. I want to give Josh the best starting position we can. Given that you can have two returners and the rest have to be 10 yards apart from the 11 defenders I think teams are gonna need two players that can return kicks and block. So picking up a RB that can do both and provide some depth is a good use of a 5th or 6th round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I know some will hate it because "change bad" but I'm interested to see how this plays out. I like the idea of keeping returns relevant. Of course this would hit at a time where Buffalo doesn't have a clear "return specialist" rostered ..but let's see what the draft brings. I also wonder how it will affect McDermott’s penchant to keep 3-4 guys solely for special teams tackling. iirc Matakavitch and Neal were released. Maybe he had word this was gonna happen since he’s now on the competition committee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Well thank goodness! If they had t changed this I was swearing off the NFL forever. Forever….I tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc11 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 45 minutes ago, eball said: This century = 23 seasons of between 256 and 272 games per season, or around 5900 games (not including playoffs), so a surprise onside kick is attempted in roughly 3% of games. I’d say it’s not a big part of the game. Regardless how much it's attempted. It's a cool element to the game for coaches to have in their tool box. A 45% success rate is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 8 hours ago, The Wiz said: It will be the same as it is now but needs to be declared that they are trying an onside kick prior to lining up. and it must be in the 4th quarter and tried by the trailing team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 29 minutes ago, UConn James said: I also wonder how it will affect McDermott’s penchant to keep 3-4 guys solely for special teams tackling. iirc Matakavitch and Neal were released. Maybe he had word this was gonna happen since he’s now on the competition committee? It will definitely play into the roster construction. I also think the Bills are counting on some younger/cheaper options on ST as well. Hamlin played a ton of ST last year and got some experience. Shorter is supposed to be a heck of a gunner. Changing the kickoff rules is a small part of the ST though. You still have punt coverage, kick and punting teams in addition to the EP/FG unit. Can't drain the well entirely of those style of guys. Minimize, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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