WotAGuy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 24 minutes ago, PBF81 said: I'm not deeply involved in this conversation, although I read up on it here, but from reading here and elsewhere like the BuffNews, Facebook, etc., it seems that the biggest issue among fans is that they want the pricing structure like a menu, to be able to see what they can afford and attempt to get the best seats for them that fit within that pricing structure, if at all. The "problem" appears to be that the team is only going to release a level or two at a time down the chart. The problem that this presents is that people seem to be afraid that they're going to get pressured into seats/STs that may not be what they'd have chosen had they known all the options. That's reasonable. It's one thing to only open up sales for certain sections. It's quite another to hide the pricing info from fans as they go through the process, and it's viewed as high-pressure sales, which of course it is. Who can or wants to pay for it has nothing to do with it, which will work itself out. It's going to be quite interesting to see how this all shakes out once the more reasonably priced tix & PSLs start going on sale. I could be entirely wrong, that's just my read for a large part of it. I’ve been reading the same media you have and I think a lot of the problem is people fearing they will lose their seats, due to huge price increases and losing their specific spot they have been in for decades, often with close friends nearby. The latter part really is too bad, but it is the nature of having to reseat everyone in a different stadium. I also think people are fearing the timeshare type pressure sales job they may get. These are all reasonable concerns in my opinion. But I can see why the Bills are doing it the way they are with respect to limiting the options people have to buy seats during their presentation. The current stadium has a lot, in fact is mostly, season ticket holders. The Bills can’t be offering a menu of different price levels while still maintaining an inventory for the rest of the season ticket holders. Many STHs have expressed concern they will lose their seats to people who turn down club seats for a lower-level option. The Bills are working it so that doesn’t happen. Like so many things, people fear the unknown. They also fear someone having control over them. Both of these fears are at work presently. People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process. So that is creating some anger and angst too. We all believe we are more important than we really are. That creates a lot of the anger and anxiety from what I’m reading on Facebook in particular. Patience and acceptance go a long way in these situations. Most people struggle with those qualities. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 7 hours ago, WotAGuy said: OK, I see what you are talking about and see what you mean. However, unless you have been through the process and bought a PSL from the Bills, aren’t you projecting a lot of negative assumptions on that process? There really is no basis for what you are supposing is going to happen, other than you know some people who didn’t do their due diligence when they bought PSLs from another team. If you’ve ever bought a house, did you read and understand the mountain of paperwork you signed your name to a dozen or more times? I just bought a car and the papers I needed to sign were going by like a printing press. It was ridiculous. However, that’s the way a lot of high-value transactions are done, and it’s up to the consumer to know what they are getting into. I don’t feel that these entities are trying to obfuscate the consumer; I think they are trying to protect themselves because they are selling thousands of their products, and of course they hold the advantage because they have something the consumers want. If I’m spending thousands on a PSL and don’t understand the contract, I’m gonna spend a few hundred to have a lawyer vet it for me. The terms of the PSL transaction would seem simple enough to clarify. I’ll wait and see how it all plays out. And tens of thousands of fans should not all need lawyers for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Just now, BarleyNY said: The terms of the PSL transaction would seem simple enough to clarify. I’ll wait and see how it all plays out. And tens of thousands of fans should not all need lawyers for that. I think I remember that @Mr Info mentioned a 20-some page agreement that he was having his lawyer review, but I may be mistaken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 6 hours ago, Punching Bag said: In college I was in literature class and research had indicated it was a composite of multiple people and he had frequent jabs at non-contributing wealthy. Can’t believe that I looked this up for this board. Many theories but no real evidence of a specific person or composite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, WotAGuy said: I think I remember that @Mr Info mentioned a 20-some page agreement that he was having his lawyer review, but I may be mistaken. You are correct. My rep sent me a copy of the 27 page PSL agreement to review before deciding whether to purchase. Included were payment terms, licensee benefits & obligations, non payment of season tickets, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 I don’t know why any Bills fans are surprised about PSL’s as it’s the norms for new stadiums. The Bucs did it way back in 1996 for Ray Jay when they demolished the old Sombrero. They weren’t alone. Bucs fans have to pay a lot of $ back then for psl’s. When the Pegulas, and State fork out $1.5 billion, is this really a surprise. If anyone doesn’t like it, watch the game from your couch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: I don’t know why any Bills fans are surprised about PSL’s as it’s the norms for new stadiums. The Bucs did it way back in 1996 for Ray Jay when they demolished the old Sombrero. They weren’t alone. Bucs fans have to pay a lot of $ back then for psl’s. When the Pegulas, and State fork out $1.5 billion, is this really a surprise. If anyone doesn’t like it, watch the game from your couch. Reminds me of this South Park classic Edited April 1 by WotAGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ?? Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats. As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026 https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html Edited April 1 by papazoid 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfBubbleGum Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 On 3/27/2024 at 7:37 PM, loyal2dagame said: I'm curious as to how many people talking about PSLs have or ever had season tickets compared to people that buy single game tickets again compared to those who don't ever attend and watch on TV. Just wondering.... And that's not meant to be a shot at anyone, just trying to see the perspectives from each group. I used to have 2 club seats in section 232. I don't think I would want to pay 40k to 50k to get them at the new stadium. Also our rec association at work has 4 club and 4 sideline seats that I usually attend a game a year with. The club seats are going away as we can't fund the PSL's and the sideline seats are in real jeopardy of being gone. I wish they'd keep the old stadium. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 19 minutes ago, papazoid said: Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ?? Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats. As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026 https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html Thank you. I was just about to post the link to this article as well. As usual, some b.s. gets out on social media and becomes labeled as "truth" when it isn't even close to being accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 10 hours ago, WotAGuy said: I’ve been reading the same media you have and I think a lot of the problem is people fearing they will lose their seats, due to huge price increases and losing their specific spot they have been in for decades, often with close friends nearby. The latter part really is too bad, but it is the nature of having to reseat everyone in a different stadium. I also think people are fearing the timeshare type pressure sales job they may get. These are all reasonable concerns in my opinion. But I can see why the Bills are doing it the way they are with respect to limiting the options people have to buy seats during their presentation. The current stadium has a lot, in fact is mostly, season ticket holders. The Bills can’t be offering a menu of different price levels while still maintaining an inventory for the rest of the season ticket holders. Many STHs have expressed concern they will lose their seats to people who turn down club seats for a lower-level option. The Bills are working it so that doesn’t happen. Like so many things, people fear the unknown. They also fear someone having control over them. Both of these fears are at work presently. People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process. So that is creating some anger and angst too. We all believe we are more important than we really are. That creates a lot of the anger and anxiety from what I’m reading on Facebook in particular. Patience and acceptance go a long way in these situations. Most people struggle with those qualities. Agree, it's complex. That overlaps with my comment. That fear of losing their seats, it's not reasonable that everyone thinks they're going to get pretty much exactly the same seats because the new stadium will be so much different. That's not even a possibility. It's obvious. As to why they're doing it this way, that's immaterial. It is what it is, but that doesn't make it "fair" or ethical. When I said "menu", by no means did I mean then opening it up to a free-for-all in sales, but simply post the varying PSL/ST process for all to see so that people can prepare. There has to be some process to keep it under control. Not saying that's entirely practical either. It seems that people want to know, when their "turn" comes up, we want to be in (this, this, or that) section, what do you have there? kinda thing, and based upon what they can afford without being pressured into spending more than they were prepared to spend. We'll see, I'm still expecting much more drama. Personally I don't care, I'm not paying for a PSL nor buying Seasons, so it doesn't really apply to me. I do know quite a few fans that have been STHs who've told me that they're out now, and there's no shortage of them here either saying the same. It should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob806 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 11 hours ago, WotAGuy said: People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process. This is my issue. Seniority should be the #1 criteria for seat selection. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) all the 2023 different levels of pricing by section/area https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/upload/v1676471808/bills/e7wdwwstbcqf3p4xru8v.jpg assuming they are taking each different class/price one by one. starting with the highest price. then going by seniority within that group. Edited April 1 by papazoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, DrBob806 said: This is my issue. Seniority should be the #1 criteria for seat selection. Wouldn’t work though. They’re offering comparable seating in the new building . If a large portion were to downgrade to a lower level of seating , they’d run out of customers for the premium seating and have to slash prices. Their approach is understandable Vs purely by seniority. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 5 hours ago, papazoid said: Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ?? Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats. As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026 https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html Tonight at 11: "Local sports reporter who will attend all games for free on behalf of the selling organization derides the cost concerns of paying customers." In all seriousness it's a bit of a small sample set and given that the Bills are fully in control of whom they bring and in what order it should be of little surprise to anyone that their initial hit rate is good. I'll reserve judgement until I see what I'm going to be asked to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob806 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 26 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Wouldn’t work though. They’re offering comparable seating in the new building . If a large portion were to downgrade to a lower level of seating , they’d run out of customers for the premium seating and have to slash prices. Their approach is understandable Vs purely by seniority. So over priced seats are ok? Rhetorical question obviously. Here's the thing. You've got a family who's been a loyal Bills customer since the 60s, and the Bills are telling that family they may potentially lose out on their seats, because they didn't splurge for the pricier seats over time? It's wrong. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Mantis_Toboggan Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 23 hours ago, Augie said: I couldn’t let the bold pass. Classifying and lumping people together like that is a bad idea. There are all kinds of people in the Billionaires Club. My wife is in Wealth Management and they do annual retreats with top clients, including several billionaires. Like non-billionaires, some are A-holes while others are absolutely delightful. Agree to disagree… I’m sure there are all kinds of people in the Billionares Club, a good one however, I’ll believe it when I meet one. The idea of an altruistic billionaire sounds great in theory, imagine what the world would actually look like if this were indeed the case. Glad you couldn’t let the “bold pass”, what the world definitely needs is the part of the 99% white knighting on behalf of the <1%… If they were good people, they wouldn’t be billionaires. They would’ve used the overwhelming majority of their liquidity/worth to do good, and make lasting change to leave this planet/society better than the one they were born into, and then still live a life of luxury that the overwhelming majority could never fathom on a pittance of a couple hundred million $. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said: Agree to disagree… I’m sure there are all kinds of people in the Billionares Club, a good one however, I’ll believe it when I meet one. The idea of an altruistic billionaire sounds great in theory, imagine what the world would actually look like if this were indeed the case. Glad you couldn’t let the “bold pass”, what the world definitely needs is the part of the 99% white knighting on behalf of the <1%… If they were good people, they wouldn’t be billionaires. They would’ve used the overwhelming majority of their liquidity/worth to do good, and make lasting change to leave this planet/society better than the one they were born into, and then still live a life of luxury that the overwhelming majority could never fathom on a pittance of a couple hundred million $. You may have heard of some of these people. https://givingpledge.org/about “In August 2010, 40 of America’s wealthiest people made a commitment to give the majority of their wealth to address some of society’s most pressing problems. Created by Warren Buffett, Melinda French Gates, and Bill Gates, the Giving Pledge came to life following a series of conversations with philanthropists about how they could set a new standard of generosity among the ultra-wealthy. While originally focused on the United States, the Giving Pledge quickly saw interest from philanthropists around the world.” But please feel free to continue to lump people together by a single trait and judge them (incorrectly, I might add). They have a word for that. . Edited April 1 by Augie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 55 minutes ago, DrBob806 said: So over priced seats are ok? Rhetorical question obviously. Here's the thing. You've got a family who's been a loyal Bills customer since the 60s, and the Bills are telling that family they may potentially lose out on their seats, because they didn't splurge for the pricier seats over time? It's wrong. Huh? This is exactly why they are doing it the way they’re doing it. They are going section by section. If that family had seats in the cheapest section of the stadium, they will get an opportunity to buy tickets in a similar section of the new stadium. you do know that the new stadium will have as many seats as there are season ticket holders in the current stadium now right? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Mantis_Toboggan Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, Augie said: You may have heard of some of these people. https://givingpledge.org/about “In August 2010, 40 of America’s wealthiest people made a commitment to give the majority of their wealth to address some of society’s most pressing problems. Created by Warren Buffett, Melinda French Gates, and Bill Gates, the Giving Pledge came to life following a series of conversations with philanthropists about how they could set a new standard of generosity among the ultra-wealthy. While originally focused on the United States, the Giving Pledge quickly saw interest from philanthropists around the world.” But please feel free to continue to lump people together by a single trait and judge them (incorrectly, I might add). They have a word for that. . Lol yes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are “good people” now, right… back to 🏈… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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