Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, BillMafia716ix said:

I’ll admit I am a little skeptical of why we never hear about Josh and the WR’s getting together and working together in the offseason. Maybe that’s why there was such a disconnect between Diggs/Allen and caused friction. Maybe he felt Josh didn’t take things as serious as him. 

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

No , please read my original message where I said it's not all stats. But stats do have to be involved to a certain degree

 

But 50 plus TdS to 27 last year and you say he's improved?

 

Thats almost a 50 percent drop off. Not too mention less yards and more turnovers.

 

I think you have to bring something more to the table opposed to just "he plays better in the system" which is a pretty subjective argument

 

 

 

 

The evidence is on the field. 
 

I have no way of demonstrating that besides telling you to watch Mahomes close his eyes and chuck it to Tyreek 10 yards behind the defenders 5 years ago vs watch Mahomes run the offense today. 

 

Stats have to be invoked to a certain degree? How much is the degree? If Josh’s production drops 25%, is that enough to say he’s a worse QB? 
 

Here’s some stats for you, if you’re so inclined.

 

Mahomes bad throw % in 2023 was the best of his career. His on target throw % was the highest of his career. He had the highest rate of drops by his receiving group of his career.

 

Josh’s on target throw % in 2023 was worse than 2020. His bad throw % was the best of his career.

 

Mahomes bad throw % and on target % were both better than Josh’s in 2023 and 2020.

[BillsFan130]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The evidence is on the field. 
 

I have no way of demonstrating that besides telling you to watch Mahomes close his eyes and chuck it to Tyreek 10 yards behind the defenders 5 years ago vs watch Mahomes run the offense today. 

 

Stats have to be invoked to a certain degree? How much is the degree? If Josh’s production drops 25%, is that enough to say he’s a worse QB? 
 

Here’s some stats for you, if you’re so inclined.

 

Mahomes bad throw % in 2023 was the best of his career. His on target throw % was the highest of his career. He had the highest rate of drops by his receiving group of his career.

 

Josh’s on target throw % in 2023 was worse than 2020. His bad throw % was the best of his career.

 

Mahomes bad throw % and on target % were both better than Josh’s in 2023 and 2020.

If that's PFF I'm sorry I can't put much stock into those. If you're a PFF guy, they have Josh as the number 1 QB. (if those stats are PfF)

Here are actual stats that aren't over analyzed by nerds 👇

 

Mahomes 2018

 

52 TDS, 12 picks, 5300 total yards, 114 rating 

 

2023- 4572, 27 TDS, 14 picks, 92 rating 

 

Josh 2020- 5000 yards, 45 TDs, 10 INTs, 107 rating

 

2023- 44 TDS, 4900 yards, 44 TDS, 18 INTs, 92 rating 

 

again I get it, it's not all stats. But it's like come on man... 

 

Mahomes stats are wayyy worse where Josh's took a slight dip.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story, but they need to be factored in. Especially when there are massive dips in each category.

 

PFF also had a higher overall grade on Mahomes in 2018 compared to 2023, so if you want to go the "advanced stats " route, your argument wouldn't hold up there

Edited April 7 by BillsFan130

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

I definitely agree with most of that, but I'm not sure how you can say he's improved overall.

 

I am not saying he got worse as he set the bar ridiculously high.

 

But improved from His MVP seasons? No way IMO.

 

He had 27 TDs last season. Teams play Josh the same they play Mahomes for the most part and Josh had 44 

Mahomes is much better at taking what defenses give him. Recognizing how defenses are playing him and getting the ball to the right receiver against those defenses. He’s also much better at knowing game situations and what it takes to win as opposed to stats accumulation. That’s a large reason why KC is winning SB’s. It’s a team game but the QB holds the biggest key. Your team is not winning multiple SB’s if your QB is not operating at this mental level of the game. 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Mahomes is much better at taking what defenses give him. Recognizing how defenses are playing him and getting the ball to the right receiver against those defenses. He’s also much better at knowing game situations and what it takes to win as opposed to stats accumulation. That’s a large reason why KC is winning SB’s. It’s a team game but the QB holds the biggest key. Your team is not winning multiple SB’s if your QB is not operating at this mental level of the game. 

I'm not denying Mahomes isn't great, that's not what I'm saying.

 

But I am saying Mahomes isn't "better" now than a few years ago when he was winning MVPs and even SBs

[90sBills]

5 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

You're just assuming, as is everyone in the thread, that Josh can do better. That he isn't at his peak. If he is, he's still more than good enough to win the Super Bowl. The question is are the players and coaching around him.

Physically he’s as talented as anyone. Where he’s behind is the mental part of being a qb. Processing speed. Getting the ball to the right place depending on game situations.

 

You don’t think he can improve in this area of his game? Right now him and the team have hit a ceiling. The roster has been turned over to get younger and hopefully break that ceiling. Whether they can do that will depend in large part by Allen. Hopefully he’s up to the challenge. 

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

I'm not denying Mahomes isn't great, that's not what I'm saying.

 

But I am saying Mahomes isn't "better" now than a few years ago when he was winning MVPs and even SBs

That’s what I meant with my post. Mahomes’ improvements has been in those mental areas of being a qb. Like that boneheaded play he made in the ‘21 AFCCG before the half. That was him not recognizing game situations. He learned from that.

 

His stats that first year was unbelievable. But defenses have adjusted to his game and took those away. Not to mention he lost a lot of the receivers on the end of those plays. He struggled briefly against the adjustments and now have figured how to beat those defenses.

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

That’s what I meant with my post. Mahomes’ improvements has been in those mental areas of being a qb. Like that boneheaded play he made in the ‘21 AFCCG before the half. That was him not recognizing game situations. He learned from that.

 

His stats that first year was unbelievable. But defenses have adjusted to his game and took those away. Not to mention he lost a lot of the receivers on the end of those plays. He struggled briefly against the adjustments and now have figured how to beat those defenses.

He had more turnovers last year compared to the previous great ones.

So I am not sure that would fit the "he's taking what the defence is giving him" narrative.

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

If that's PFF I'm sorry I can't put much stock into those. If you're a PFF guy, they have Josh as the number 1 QB. (if those stats are PfF)

Here are actual stats that aren't over analyzed by nerds 👇

 

Mahomes 2018

 

52 TDS, 12 picks, 5300 total yards, 114 rating 

 

2023- 4572, 27 TDS, 14 picks, 92 rating 

 

Josh 2020- 5000 yards, 45 TDs, 10 INTs, 107 rating

 

2023- 44 TDS, 4900 yards, 44 TDS, 18 INTs, 92 rating 

 

again I get it, it's not all stats. But it's like come on man... 

 

Mahomes stats are wayyy worse where Josh's took a slight dip.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story, but they need to be factored in. Especially when there are massive dips in each category.

 

PFF also had a higher overall grade on Mahomes in 2018 compared to 2023, so if you want to go the "advanced stats " route, your argument wouldn't hold up there

It's not PFF. It's PFR.

 

Like I said, if you are going to say Mahomes is worse because his numbers are worse, was Tom Brady regressing in 2019 and then suddenly got way better in 2020?

 

It's just not a valid argument to me.

 

If Josh's numbers take a sizable hit this season because he's throwing to plumbers and mailmen, I will not necessarily say he's regressing. It sounds like you will though.

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

He had more turnovers last year compared to the previous great ones.

So I am not sure that would fit the "he's taking what the defence is giving him" narrative.

If you watch their games you’d see that Kadarius Toney alone was responsible for a few of those. Just strictly looking at stats to determine if a qb has improved is foolhardy. Especially a qb that has taken his team to back-to-back Superbowls. 

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It's not PFF. It's PFR.

 

Like I said, if you are going to say Mahomes is worse because his numbers are worse, was Tom Brady regressing in 2019 and then suddenly got way better in 2020?

 

It's just not a valid argument to me.

 

If Josh's numbers take a sizable hit this season because he's throwing to plumbers and mailmen, I will not necessarily say he's regressing. It sounds like you will though.

But there's just nothing to support your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

Actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing.

 

 

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

If you watch their games you’d see that Kadarius Toney alone was responsible for a few of those. Just strictly looking at stats to determine if a qb has improved is foolhardy. Especially a qb that has taken his team to back-to-back Superbowls. 

All great QBs have great stats buddy lol. It would be foolish not to factor in stats.

 

Mahomes actual stats are way worse. And his advanced stats are worse since 2018.

 

So I really don't know what you wanna argue- If you want straw at things like "Toney caused an INT or two " compared to all data im saying here, that's a poor hill to die on and you have your mind made up so not much saying more

Edited April 7 by BillsFan130

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

 

He would give his life but he wouldn't attend OTAs? Trust me, the public image of Diggs as a football obsessed workout warrior is a mirage. He is the type that loves holding others to impossibly high standards but makes excuses for himself.

[90sBills]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

But there's just nothing to support your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

Actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing.

 

 

All great QBs have great stats buddy lol. It would be foolish not to factor in stats.

 

Mahomes actual stats are way worse. And his advanced stats are worse since 2018.

 

So I really don't know what you wanna argue- If you want straw at things like "Toney caused an INT or two " compared to all data im saying here, that's a poor hill to die on and you have your mind made up so not much saying more

Wait. You’re saying his stats are bad now? You’re saying the best qb in the league has regressed since his debut when during that time has led his team to 4 Superbowls and winning 3 of them? Oh man I wish Allen could regress in such a fashion for the Bills. Let’s agree to disagree and move on because it’s getting to absurd territory. 

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

Wait. You’re saying his stats are bad now? You’re saying the best qb in the league has regressed since his debut when during that time has led his team to 4 Superbowls and winning 3 of them? Oh man I wish Allen could regress in such a fashion for the Bills. Let’s agree to disagree and move on because it’s getting to absurd territory. 

Ahh using the "Mahomes is getting better cause his team is winning SBs argument".

 

It was only a matter of time before someone used that lazy argument.

 

I didn't know Mahomes and Josh played individual sports. I thought football was a 53 man team game, but what do I know.

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

But there's just nothing to support your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

Actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing.

I just posted advanced stats that showed he was the most accurate of his career in 2023. You just don’t like them lol

[90sBills]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Ahh using the "Mahomes is getting better cause his team is winning SBs argument".

 

It was only a matter of time before someone used that lazy argument.

 

I didn't know Mahomes and Josh played individual sports. I thought football was a 53 man team game, but what do I know.

They don’t play individual sports but they are responsible for a large portion of their teams’ success. Just as all elite QBs. That’s why they’re paid as such. I brought this up in an earlier post but in your haste to rebut you missed it.

 

Everyone has an opinion so you’re entitled to yours.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I didn't know Mahomes and Josh played individual sports. I thought football was a 53 man team game, but what do I know.

 

You'll find in this discussion that certain people have to pretend elite players and elite coaches don't matter. To me it's simple - If Allen and Mahomes play equally in a matchup, the Bills will lose every single time. Because in that scenario the people around Mahomes are far and away better than the people around Allen and that will be the difference. For us to get past Mahomes we either need to get a couple of elite players or we need a new coaching staff, or we have to just hope Mahomes happens to play below his standard. Under our current circumstances there's no realistic scenario where Mahomes plays well and we beat the Chiefs, and nothing Allen can do to force that to happen. He played the best game of his career against them in 2021 and it still wasn't enough. If people can't see that, it's on them.

 

Edited April 8 by HappyDays

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

If Diggs wanted it so bad, he wouldn’t have dropped that dime or disappeared the back half of the season !  Maybe a few more workout videos would have helped.  

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I just posted advanced stats that showed he was the most accurate of his career in 2023. You just don’t like them lol

You're cherry picking a stat or two instead of factoring in the whole picture . I posted a stat that he was graded higher in 2018 compared to 2023. 

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

You'll find in this discussion that certain people have to pretend elite players and elite coaches don't matter. To me it's simple - If Allen and Mahomes play equally in a matchup, the Bills will lose every single time. Because in that scenario the people around Mahomes are far and away better than the people around Allen and that will be the difference. For us to get past Mahomes we either need to get a couple of elite players or we need a new coaching staff, or we have to just hope Mahomes happens to play below his standard. Under our current circumstances there's no realistic scenario where Mahomes plays well and we beat the Chiefs.

100 percent. I can't stand the "Mahomes is the best cause he wins SB argument". It's so lazy

 

If people say Mahomes is better than Josh, that's fair of course. But to use the SB argument is extremely lazy 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

You're cherry picking a stat or two instead of factoring in the whole picture . I posted a stat that he was graded higher in 2018 compared to 2023. 

Your whole picture is counting stats. I don’t think those tell the whole story.

 

I will say it for a third time. If you believe that Tom Brady got almost twice as good at age 43 because his counting numbers were almost twice as good as the season prior, that’s your prerogative. I just think you’re completely wrong.  

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

100 percent. I can't stand the "Mahomes is the best cause he wins SB argument". It's so lazy

 

If people say Mahomes is better than Josh, that's fair of course. But to use the SB argument is extremely lazy 

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Your whole picture is counting stats. I don’t think those tell the whole story.

 

I will say it for a third time. If you believe that Tom Brady got almost twice as good at age 43 because his counting numbers were almost twice as good as the season prior, that’s your prerogative. I just think you’re completely wrong.  

I gave you actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing you are saying supports your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

You are obviously in the camp that Mahomes can't do any wrong no matter what the numbers say because right now your argument is "trust me bro" with nothing to back up what you're claiming.
 

So there's really no point arguing anymore .

 

 

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

I wish we can pin this post lol. Very well said

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

We have seen lesser QB’s beat greater QB’s with more talent around them. 
 

Nick Foles beat Brady in the SB. He doesn’t beat Brady, imo, without a nasty Eagles team around him (even the defense made a game ending play after getting dog walked for most of the game).

 

Two things can be true. 
 

You can beat a dynasty every once in a while. They aren’t invincible, they are just the closest thing to it in football.

 

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem, which is why folks say “we just keep losing to the best of the best,” because that’s mostly true.

 

Brady stood in the way of a ton of very good QB’s having more success. Ben, Rivers, Brees, Ryan. It doesn’t mean they have no chance. It didn’t mean Brady never loses. Mahomes is the same way. 
 

Right now, the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Texans and maybe the Jags are the only other teams with a chance vs the Chiefs. But I guarantee 15 years from now, Mahomes will have a winning playoff record vs all of them combined. Just like Brady does with all of his contemporaries.

 

This is obvious, I think.

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I gave you actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing you are saying supports your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

You are obviously in the camp that Mahomes can't do any wrong no matter what the numbers say because right now your argument is "trust me bro" with nothing to back up what you're claiming.

This is very sad lol. 
 

Are you going to keep running from the Brady comment, or just wave the white flag because you know it kills your “argument” in its crib?

 

Oh wait, no you’ll come back with “that’s irrelevant, we are not talking about Brady, you’re changing the subject.”

 

Some folks are just too easy lol

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We have seen lesser QB’s beat greater QB’s with more talent around them. 
 

Nick Foles beat Brady in the SB. He doesn’t beat Brady, imo, without a nasty Eagles team around him (even the defense made a game ending play after getting dog walked for most of the game).

 

Two things can be true. 
 

You can beat a dynasty every once in a while. They aren’t invincible, they are just the closest thing to it in football.

 

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem, which is why folks say “we just keep losing to the best of the best,” because that’s mostly true.

 

Brady stood in the way of a ton of very good QB’s having more success. Ben, Rivers, Brees, Ryan. It doesn’t mean they have no chance. It didn’t mean Brady never loses. Mahomes is the same way. 
 

Right now, the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Texans and maybe the Jags are the only other teams with a chance vs the Chiefs. But I guarantee 15 years from now, Mahomes will have a winning playoff record vs all of them combined. Just like Brady does with all of his contemporaries.

 

This is obvious, I think.

This is very sad lol. 
 

Are you going to keep running from the Brady comment, or just wave the white flag because you know it kills your “argument” in its crib?

 

Oh wait, no you’ll come back with “that’s irrelevant, we are not talking about Brady, you’re changing the subject.”

 

Some folks are just too easy lol

What is your Brady argument?

 

And what does that have anything to do with Mahomes in the point we are discussing? 
 

We are talking about Mahomes. Not Brady.. 

 

Your argument is Mahomes is getting better. Yet nothing backs up what you're saying.

 

So how does Tom Brady factor into any of that?^

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

What is your Brady argument?

 

And what does that have anything to do with Mahomes in the point we are discussing? 
 

We are talking about Mahomes. Not Brady.. 

 

Your argument is Mahomes is getting better. Yet nothing backs up what you're saying.

 

So how does Tom Brady factor into any of that?^

Ding ding ding.

 

tell him what he’s won, Johnny! 
 

You just got Papa Doc’d. Puppeteered. 
 

 

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Ding ding ding.

 

tell him what he’s won, Johnny! 
 

You just got Papa Doc’d. Puppeteered. 
 

 

What in gods name are you talking about? 😂

 

You are arguing that Brady had a bad year in 2019 and got way better in 2020?

 

1. He went to a COMPLETELY different passing system with completely different players and a different TEAM. The variability is of course going to be massive as it's comparing apples to oranges. Perkins offence to Air raid. 

 

2. Great QBs can have down years. Great players in any sports can have down years. Not "every year in linear".

 

Are you that naive that you're saying it's impossible for Mahomes to have a slightly down year compared to his usual MVP self? Even though stats and advanced stats show that it was the case?

Horrible comparison with the Tom Brady situation by the way. But nice try

 

Edited April 8 by BillsFan130

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

What in gods name are you talking about? 😂

 

You are arguing that Brady had a bad year in 2019 and got way better in 2020?

 

1. He went to a COMPLETELY different passing system with completely different players and a different TEAM. The variability is of course going to be massive as it's comparing apples to oranges. Perkins offence to Air raid. 

 

2. Great QBs can have down years. Great players in any sports can have down years. Not "every year in linear".

 

Are you that naive that you're saying it's impossible for Mahomes to have a slightly down year compared to his usual MVP self? Even though stats and advanced stats show that it was the case?

Horrible comparison with the Tom Brady situation by the way. But nice try

 

There we go, at least you finally addressed it. Only took me dunking on you to get you back in the game. 

 

QB’s can absolutely fluctuate up and down over their career. Totally agree.

 

I also agree that it would probably be fair to say Mahomes had a slightly worse year in 2023 compared to the rest of his career. 
 

I would argue a QB could have a down year for many reasons. Coaching change. Loss of talent. Just not up to their usual standards for a million reasons. I don’t think any of that means they are a worse QB. There are a lot of mental elements to the game that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. 
 

I think there’s a good chance Josh is a better QB next year in regards to his mastery of the game despite slumping in production compared to his career. 
 

That’s it.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

There we go, at least you finally addressed it. Only took me dunking on you to get you back in the game. 

 

QB’s can absolutely fluctuate up and down over their career. Totally agree.

 

I also agree that it would probably be fair to say Mahomes had a slightly worse year in 2023 compared to the rest of his career. 
 

I would argue a QB could have a down year for many reasons. Coaching change. Loss of talent. Just not up to their usual standards for a million reasons. I don’t think any of that means they are a worse QB. There are a lot of mental elements to the game that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. 
 

I think there’s a good chance Josh is a better QB next year in regards to his mastery of the game despite slumping in production compared to his career. 
 

That’s it.

Ok - It sounds like your argument is, Mahomes wasn't as good statically, but it wasn't his fault.

 

I am not even denying that a lot of that isn't true as he clearly didn't have the talent now compared to his mvp seasons

 

But it's also a hard argument to say "he's better" when nothing shows that.

Anyways we will agree to disagree. Have a good night man 

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

I gave you a red x but to clarify, the part about Purdy is completely accurate.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

And you know this how?

 

And for someone who would "give his life to win a Super Bowl" Diggs sure did disappear in the 2021, 2022, & 2023 playoffs.

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Mahomes is much better at taking what defenses give him. Recognizing how defenses are playing him and getting the ball to the right receiver against those defenses. He’s also much better at knowing game situations and what it takes to win as opposed to stats accumulation. That’s a large reason why KC is winning SB’s. It’s a team game but the QB holds the biggest key. Your team is not winning multiple SB’s if your QB is not operating at this mental level of the game. 

Josh’s biggest problem is not recognizing what’s given to him and taking it instead of forcing it further up the field. If he could figure this out we would be almost unstoppable.

[wppete]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Patrick Mahomes currently doing the same with his receivers 

https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/chiefs-patrick-mahomes-texas-throwing-session-nikko-remigio-justyn-ross-irv-smith-brock-bowers/

 

Meanwhile Josh is on a golf course somewhere...

Russel Wilson doing the same. 
 

https://www.nfl.com/news/steelers-te-pat-freiermuth-qb-russell-wilson-starting-to-build-that-connection-with-receivers

 

Josh is working on the Hadicap on the Greens ⛳️ 🏌🏿‍♂️ 

[90sBills]

17 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Josh’s biggest problem is not recognizing what’s given to him and taking it instead of forcing it further up the field. If he could figure this out we would be almost unstoppable.

Absolutely! Teams are playing to his tendencies for the deep shots. Hopefully he can improve on that (taking what’s there) next season. 

[Warriorspikes51]

11 hours ago, wppete said:

Russel Wilson doing the same. 
 

https://www.nfl.com/news/steelers-te-pat-freiermuth-qb-russell-wilson-starting-to-build-that-connection-with-receivers

 

Josh is working on the Hadicap on the Greens ⛳️ 🏌🏿‍♂️ 

I'm hoping we pull 2 WR's pretty high in the draft and we see Josh working with them in the near future

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

The combination of Josh(by himself) winning against Andy, Patrick, Travis and Chris is both impossibly daunting and unrealistic. Josh needs a dynamic offensive HC. A WR1 who doesn't disrupt and a game wrecking defensive star. He has none of that.

[FireChans]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

I hear you. 
 

2 years ago I probably agreed with you. Now, I’m not so sure.
 

I wasn’t quick to crown Patty and Andy as the inheritors of the Pats Dynasty up until this last year. Now, I think they are.

 

They are like a Hydra at this point. They trade away the greatest WR weapon in recent memory and win two SB’s with an offense held together with duct tape. 
 

Kelce looks like he’s slowing down and heading to retirement, then rips off a massive playoff run. 
 

They tear down and rebuild the OL, the defense in a blink of an eye. 
 

And they aren’t even perfect. Toney is a zero now. Skyy Moore a bust. They lose Mecole Hardman to FA, get him back when he predictably flames out, and he catches the game winning pass in the SB.

 

I have no explanation and it sounds really crazy. But I do now think they are just head and shoulders above everyone, not in gamechanging talent alone. 
 

I could be wrong. Maybe they go 10 years without winning a ring again. I just don’t think so. And that’s not all Mahomes, it’s everything.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:19 AM, 90sBills said:

You really think if something like that would happened without the Bills social media team being on top of it in this day and age?

 

Mahomes holds annual offseason camps to work with his receivers…current and newly added. He even works with draft prospects that would want to participate. Like I said not everyone is driven like this and it’s ok. But it’s clear he is driven to be the best and it shows on the field. 

Mahomes and his wrs were out of sync pretty much all season weren’t they lol I think this chiefs wrs season is pretty strong evidence that maybe offseason camps is too much football 

 

to use the bills as an example, someone like Gabe Davis played on the team for years and was still consistently on the wrong page.  Idk how much an unofficial throw the ball around type get together could’ve possibly helped 😂

then you’ve got your Stefon Diggs types that are closer to hitting a mental wall if they’re overworked and it can be a negative thing. 
 

I do think josh did extra work with Kincaid last offseason 

Edited April 8 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Warriorspikes51]

22 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

Based on what?  Tell us....WHO showed up in the playoffs, with the only exception being Cincinnati.  

Allen has played at an MVP level in the post-season  and is the ONLY QB besides Burrow who has shown he can go toe to toe with Mahomes. 

 

He had the game 2 years ago won  and was darn close this year if not for Dion bumping him / Diggs drop / Sherfield drops 

 

3 catchable passes....2 of them were dimes way downfield.  Both dropped.  

 

WHERE WAS DIGGS?   He has been COMPLETELY ERASED in all 3 games against KC and was not an impact player in most of our other playoff games

FIRST PLAY OF THE GAME AGAINST KC.....DIGGS PUTS THE BALL ON THE GROUND.  FUMBLE!!!  Imagine if KC had recovered that?   We might have lost the game in the 1st half 

Edited April 8 by Warriorspikes51

[90sBills]

27 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Mahomes and his wrs were out of sync pretty much all season weren’t they lol I think this chiefs wrs season is pretty strong evidence that maybe offseason camps is too much football 

 

to use the bills as an example, someone like Gabe Davis played on the team for years and was still consistently on the wrong page.  Idk how much an unofficial throw the ball around type get together could’ve possibly helped 😂

then you’ve got your Stefon Diggs types that are closer to hitting a mental wall if they’re overworked and it can be a negative thing. 
 

I do think josh did extra work with Kincaid last offseason 

Oh completely agree that this extra work may or may not help certain guys. While KC receivers were struggling last season I now see why Mahomes wouldn’t criticize them. They’re showing up for extra work to support him in the offseason so if anything it strengthens the bond of loyalty they have for each other. They ended winning the Superbowl so who’s to say their method didn’t work. 
 

What’s also interesting is Mahomes working out with potential draft prospects during these sessions. It’s like test driving a car for a few weeks. That’s how they ended up with Rashee Rice last year. 
 

Andy Reid has also said that their offseason Phase 1 plan gets implemented by Mahomes during this time. So when they officially meet for OTAs they’re ahead of the curve. I can see more and more QBs and teams will start doing this exercise more formally like Mahomes has. It’s a copy cat league and you can’t argue their success.