Jeremiah has us taking a DT at 28 in his latest mock

[Coach Tuesday]

36 minutes ago, Kaenon said:

2006 John McCargo - round 1

Alex Carrington, but maybe he was DE?

2018 Ed Oliver - round 1

 

All that comes to mind.

 

Forgot Torrell Troup I think round 2!

Maybe 2009?

 

Oh yeah and Marcel Dareus - round 1 2011...duh!

Harrison Phillips, Boogie Basham

[Kaenon]

50 minutes ago, Pete said:

which one?  If we go DT- who are we selecting?

Oliver is the only non bust.  Dareus selected 4th overall- look at who the Bills passed up to draft this useless tub of goo

He was #3.

We wanted Von Miller but he went #2, but we have him now, lol.

Cam was #1.

 

We should've gone for Von if available, and then the rest of the top 15 was loaded.

AJ Green @ 4

Patrick Peterson @ 5

Julio Jones @ 6

Aldon Smith @ 7

Tyron Smith @ 9

JJ Watt @ 11

[Warriorspikes51]

I don't see the position as being premium enough to warrant a 1st round selection....unless you are getting what you believe is Chris Jones II 

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Harrison Phillips, Boogie Basham

 

Boogie was drafted as a defensive end. They did talk about using him inside in some packages but I'm not sure he ever did it for us in a game. 

[ALF]

With a run on QB , WR, OL ,CB in 1st rd , a good player could fall to 28.

[Sgt. Ski]

AS long as it is Sweat from Texas I'm all in. I live in Austin, and this guy is good. quick for a guy with that belly, but quick none the less.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Ehh The OL played well except for Jones pushing Dion.   Milano or Bernard on the field could have changed the game IMO 

 

Their run game was absolutely gashing us.  Part of why i thought the TD to shakir would have been the difference.  I didn't see them having as much offensive success without being able to keep us honest there.  

[nosejob]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Their run game was absolutely gashing us.  Part of why i thought the TD to shakir would have been the difference.  I didn't see them having as much offensive success without being able to keep us honest there.  

The difference was the dropped passes. We should have won by 2 scores.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 3/19/2024 at 4:59 PM, GoBills808 said:

Probably because we've invested so much into it only to watch them get steamrolled when it counts

Here’s hoping a change in positional coaching/doctrine is helpful for that!!

[Alphadawg7]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Metcalf was a pretty popular pick on this board for most of the 2019 offseason and there were plenty of people who wanted the Bills to select him even in round 1 and definitely in round 2.   There were some very vocal anti-DK types who shouted a lot of them down.

 

But Cody Ford was a good example of the "reach" player I am taking about.........he was a guy who wouldn't even be a consideration as a first or second rounder in a decent OL draft.........but in THAT weak OT draft he was viewed much more favorably than he deserved.    If you thought taking him was OK with the ceilings of those receivers I guess you were on board with the then-green Beane about that..........but it never made any sense to me.   RT is non-primo and Ford's ceiling with his limited athleticism(4 RAS) and lack of versatility was fringe starter.

 

There are a lot of DL in this draft who some people are squinting at to look past their limitations and instead dreaming on being steals who are going to be on "free agent visits" still two weeks into free agency in 2028.   We don't need another situation where a Ty Nsekhe type journeymen is beating out a trade-up-for second rounder like what happened with Cody Ford in that camp. 

 

No, that is not accurate as DK was not somewhat popular until he gained some interest after his combine 40 time.  I was probably banging the DK drum the loudest and started during the college football season and throughout the offseason as thought he was the best WR1 prospect, even though he was hurt, and a lot of this board was pushing back.  It was not until DK blew minds in his 40 did some people get on him, but a lot of people kept saying he had no agility and couldnt run routes and all kinds of stuff.  Including a lot of prominent posters.  

 

And I didn't say Ford was a good pick, I said I can understand why they wanted to address the OL and obviously it didnt work out.  But Ford leading up to the draft was projected to go as high as the teens of the first round.  I did a mock draft that year with the Bills selecting him in the 2nd round (I wasn’t as high on him and wanted DK in the first) and a lot of people on this board piled on me saying there was no way Ford was reaching the 2nd round.  I discussed Ford in the 2nd round in other peoples threads, again, people saying no way he got to the 2nd round.  

 

But make no mistake about it, my number 1 target was DK Metcalf and I wanted him with our first round pick because I never imagined he would make it to our 2nd after his 40 in the combine.  I was in the shout box begging to pick DK in the 2nd, not Ford.  

 

So don't try and twist this into something else.  Hindsight is easy...Ford was widely expected to go in the first, so given we had a need to protect Allen, I understood them going OL even though I wanted DK 10 times more.  Ford in the 2nd was good value on him at that moment in the draft and he was BPA for a lot of people at that point even though I much preferred DK.  Even after taking Ford I kept screaming to trade back up for DK into the 2nd all shout box as he kept falling one spot at a time after our pick.  Not getting DK after seeing him slip that far was disappoin

 

Don't get it mixed up because I said I can understand a team addressing OL with our young QB.  Doesn't mean he was my pick, because my main guy that whole season and offseason was DK Metcalf before the majority of the board had any idea about him.  I even won money off someone who told me he would be a bust and we bet on his rookie stats of 700+ yards and 5+ TD's.  I won.  

Edited March 21 by Alphadawg7

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No, that is not accurate as DK was not somewhat popular until he gained some interest after his combine 40 time.  I was probably banging the DK drum the loudest and started during the college football season and throughout the offseason as thought he was the best WR1 prospect, even though he was hurt, and a lot of this board was pushing back.  It was not until DK blew minds in his 40 did some people get on him, but a lot of people kept saying he had no agility and couldnt run routes and all kinds of stuff.  Including a lot of prominent posters.  

 

And I didn't say Ford was a good pick, I said I can understand why they wanted to address the OL and obviously it didnt work out.  But Ford leading up to the draft was projected to go as high as the teens of the first round.  I did a mock draft that year with the Bills selecting him in the 2nd round (I wasn’t as high on him and wanted DK in the first) and a lot of people on this board piled on me saying there was no way Ford was reaching the 2nd round.  I discussed Ford in the 2nd round in other peoples threads, again, people saying no way he got to the 2nd round.  

 

But make no mistake about it, my number 1 target was DK Metcalf and I wanted him with our first round pick because I never imagined he would make it to our 2nd after his 40 in the combine.  I was in the shout box begging to pick DK in the 2nd, not Ford.  

 

So don't try and twist this into something else.  Hindsight is easy...Ford was widely expected to go in the first, so given we had a need to protect Allen, I understood them going OL even though I wanted DK 10 times more.  Ford in the 2nd was good value on him at that moment in the draft and he was BPA for a lot of people at that point even though I much preferred DK.  Even after taking Ford I kept screaming to trade back up for DK into the 2nd all shout box as he kept falling one spot at a time after our pick.  Not getting DK after seeing him slip that far was disappoin

 

Don't get it mixed up because I said I can understand a team addressing OL with our young QB.  Doesn't mean he was my pick, because my main guy that whole season and offseason was DK Metcalf before the majority of the board had any idea about him.  I even won money off someone who told me he would be a bust and we bet on his rookie stats of 700+ yards and 5+ TD's.  I won.  

 

 

Yeah I think sometimes fans think they are the only one who supported the selection of a player who was passed on..............but are largely wrong.

 

Metcalf had plenty of supporters on TSW.  And the point of time we are talking about is the draft itself.........not pre-combine or in-season wherever you are trying to move the goal post.    On draft day, a lot of TSW folks were on the DK bandwagon.    

 

Including me, who wanted him in round 1 and then have probably mentioned at least many hundreds of times on TSW since immediately thereafter how stupid that the Ford trade-up and selection was instead of selecting Metcalf.     It was boneheaded and showed a lack of foresight from a young GM.   As a regime that didn't start out in 2017 with a young foundation of talent(they let them all walk or traded them) and who had made a lot of bad free agent decisions in 2018.........they really needed to hit that pick or risk being in chase mode.    Which is what happened and that forced them to further undermine their salary cap situation by having to trade their first in 2020 to get a $15M WR in Diggs.

 

But I digress.......

 

Your insistence, on one hand, that Ford was a first round talent because someone else thought so while claiming to have your own take on Metcalf is perhaps an illustration of your lack of a plan/process wrt drafting.   You either trust your eyes OR you trust Todd McShay or whatever draft rag that told you that Cody Ford was a first round talent instead of just a body pushed WAY up the board by a lack of actual GOOD options at the position.   

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I think sometimes fans think they are the only one who supported the selection of a player who was passed on..............but are largely wrong.

 

LOL...did you just tell me essentially fans misremember and then proceed to tell me you as a fan remember better?  lol.  

 

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Metcalf had plenty of supporters on TSW.  And the point of time we are talking about is the draft itself.........not pre-combine or in-season wherever you are trying to move the goal post.    On draft day, a lot of TSW folks were on the DK bandwagon.    

 

The 2 players this board was all over the most at 9 was Ed Oliver and Hockenson.  Once DK ran the 40 time, he did garner more support, but his slow shuttle and agility times kept plenty of detractors and kept him from over taking either Oliver or Hockenson for us at 9. So lets not at all make up some narrative that DK was the top choice around here, because he wasn't.  So stop trying to pretend DK suddenly became the TSW darling just because you wanted to draft him too, its just not accurate.

 

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Including me, who wanted him in round 1 and then have probably mentioned at least many hundreds of times on TSW since immediately thereafter how stupid that the Ford trade-up and selection was instead of selecting Metcalf.     It was boneheaded and showed a lack of foresight from a young GM.   As a regime that didn't start out in 2017 with a young foundation of talent(they let them all walk or traded them) and who had made a lot of bad free agent decisions in 2018.........they really needed to hit that pick or risk being in chase mode.    Which is what happened and that forced them to further undermine their salary cap situation by having to trade their first in 2020 to get a $15M WR in Diggs.

 

But I digress.......

 

Your insistence, on one hand, that Ford was a first round talent because someone else thought so while claiming to have your own take on Metcalf is perhaps an illustration of your lack of a plan/process wrt drafting.   You either trust your eyes OR you trust Todd McShay or whatever draft rag that told you that Cody Ford was a first round talent instead of just a body pushed WAY up the board by a lack of actual GOOD options at the position.   

 

What part about me saying that I had Ford as a 2nd rounder is confusing for you because you keep claiming I said he was a first rounder?  I said everyone else had him mostly as a first rounder, I did NOT.  Not only did I have him as a 2nd rounder, I had Dalton Risner as the better player and my preferred choice but thought he would go before Ford...both proved right.  Here is my exact quote:  (NOTE:  In this draft, I had DK going 8th to Detroit and us trading down from 9 and taking another WR still and then using our 2nd on Ford later who wasn't even my preferred choice, Risner was).  

 

SECOND ROUND:

Pick via Redskins trade:

BILLS DRAFT:  Cody Ford - OT/G, Oklahoma 

NOTE:  I previously had Dalton Risner here, however he seems to be rising into potentially the first round.  I want to mock Risner, but I think he goes early and that causes Ford to slide a further down to us.  

 

So what is it you want to argue?  I wanted WR then, I want WR now.  I did NOT have Ford as a first rounder, and he wasn't even my preferred OL choice in the 2nd.  

 

I honestly can not figure out what it is you want to argue here.  We apparently both wanted DK.  We apparently both want WR this year.  We apparently both didn't think Ford was a first rounder.  We both didn't want us to take Ford over DK and both thought it was a mistake then and still do now.  

 

So honestly, I have no idea what it is you are trying so hard to make me wrong about when we seem to agree on everything being discussed.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LOL...did you just tell me essentially fans misremember and then proceed to tell me you as a fan remember better?  lol.  

 

 

The 2 players this board was all over the most at 9 was Ed Oliver and Hockenson.  Once DK ran the 40 time, he did garner more support, but his slow shuttle and agility times kept plenty of detractors and kept him from over taking either Oliver or Hockenson for us at 9. So lets not at all make up some narrative that DK was the top choice around here, because he wasn't.  So stop trying to pretend DK suddenly became the TSW darling just because you wanted to draft him too, its just not accurate.

 

 

What part about me saying that I had Ford as a 2nd rounder is confusing for you because you keep claiming I said he was a first rounder?  I said everyone else had him mostly as a first rounder, I did NOT.  Not only did I have him as a 2nd rounder, I had Dalton Risner as the better player and my preferred choice but thought he would go before Ford...both proved right.  Here is my exact quote:  (NOTE:  In this draft, I had DK going 8th to Detroit and us trading down from 9 and taking another WR still and then using our 2nd on Ford later who wasn't even my preferred choice, Risner was).  

 

SECOND ROUND:

Pick via Redskins trade:

BILLS DRAFT:  Cody Ford - OT/G, Oklahoma 

NOTE:  I previously had Dalton Risner here, however he seems to be rising into potentially the first round.  I want to mock Risner, but I think he goes early and that causes Ford to slide a further down to us.  

 

So what is it you want to argue?  I wanted WR then, I want WR now.  I did NOT have Ford as a first rounder, and he wasn't even my preferred OL choice in the 2nd.  

 

I honestly can not figure out what it is you want to argue here.  We apparently both wanted DK.  We apparently both want WR this year.  We apparently both didn't think Ford was a first rounder.  We both didn't want us to take Ford over DK and both thought it was a mistake then and still do now.  

 

So honestly, I have no idea what it is you are trying so hard to make me wrong about when we seem to agree on everything being discussed.  

 

 

Yeah, having followed the draft closely for almost 40 years and on here since the 1990's and following college recruiting on a too-often(daily) basis......I'm not trying to accumulate every draft opinion I have in the last 6 months prior to a draft.   Let alone from the combine onward, like most here.  

 

So I've made note to observe certain things about TSW.   Like things that trigger TSW fans to jump on players during the draft.    I'll even make note of some strange people who are oddly insistent ON a certain player.    Like the former Joe Sixpack,  who was all about Metcalf and has been cussing the Bills out about it ever since that draft.  

 

You.......I made no note of at the time because you seemed like a random throw-dart-at-board-loudly draft newb who I thought would likely flame out on TSW anyway.

 

Your takes have improved since then but your leaps of logic are still an issue.

 

I had no interest in Ford or Risner, for what it's worth.   Not because I thought they had zero future in the NFL.   But the draft isn't about patching needs by reaching up into early rounds for guys who would be much later picks in a more average year for the position.   And at a non-premium position like G or RT to boot.

 

The early rounds are about laying the foundation for your team by getting value at premium positions that are hard to fill in free agency.   You have to treat those picks like they have that value.   You want a guy with a potential mid $30M's aav ceiling in round 1.   Round 2 we are talking about mid-$20M's potential now.    These are, statistically, your best chances to get those guys. 

 

The Cody Ford move was a total, drought era "we gotta' look competent THIS season or we might get fired" move at the expense of the greater good of the franchise.  Made no sense to me given their job security.   Guys like Cody Ford are available in free agency every year.   Guys like DK Metcalf are not.   So we are in agreement on that.   I'm just saying you were carried away thinking there weren't a lot of DK Metcalf fans on TSW on draft day.    

[MJS]

Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah, having followed the draft closely for almost 40 years and on here since the 1990's and following college recruiting on a too-often(daily) basis......I'm not trying to accumulate every draft opinion I have in the last 6 months prior to a draft.   Let alone from the combine onward, like most here.  

 

So I've made note to observe certain things about TSW.   Like things that trigger TSW fans to jump on players during the draft.    I'll even make note of some strange people who are oddly insistent ON a certain player.    Like the former Joe Sixpack,  who was all about Metcalf and has been cussing the Bills out about it ever since that draft.  

 

You.......I made no note of at the time because you seemed like a random throw-dart-at-board-loudly draft newb who I thought would likely flame out on TSW anyway.

 

Newb?  Ha, well I was an 11 year vet on this board in 2019 and had probably about 15K posts back then.  Newb I was not.  

 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Your takes have improved since then but your leaps of logic are still an issue.

 

I had no interest in Ford or Risner, for what it's worth.   Not because I thought they had zero future in the NFL.   But the draft isn't about patching needs by reaching up into early rounds for guys who would be much later picks in a more average year for the position.   And at a non-premium position like G or RT to boot.

 

Remember a mock draft is what you think they will do, not what you want them to do, otherwise thats a wish list, not a mock draft.  I knew they were going to address the OL in the draft, heck everyone knew that because we had to and they were showing a lot of interest in OL prospects ahead of the draft.  It wasn't a great draft overall...and definitely was not a great draft to be looking for a WR or OL help, but those were two areas many expected the Bills to address at some point in the draft.  

 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The early rounds are about laying the foundation for your team by getting value at premium positions that are hard to fill in free agency.   You have to treat those picks like they have that value.   You want a guy with a potential mid $30M's aav ceiling in round 1.   Round 2 we are talking about mid-$20M's potential now.    These are, statistically, your best chances to get those guys. 

 

Don't disagree with that, but reaching isn't the solution to your equation.  My only stance is I don't want to reach for a 2nd round player in the first, I would rather trade back and pick up value then get said player.  But, if Beane and the scouts have someone they covet there at 28 and don't want to risk trading back, then I am all for them pulling the trigger.  

 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Cody Ford move was a total, drought era "we gotta' look competent THIS season or we might get fired" move at the expense of the greater good of the franchise.  Made no sense to me given their job security.   Guys like Cody Ford are available in free agency every year.   Guys like DK Metcalf are not.   So we are in agreement on that.   I'm just saying you were carried away thinking there weren't a lot of DK Metcalf fans on TSW on draft day.    

 

Im just saying the anti DK crowd for sure outnumbered the pro DK crowd on draft night.  And prior to the combine, there was almost no DK crowd here outside a handful of us.  Leading up to the draft there were a lot of people begging for Ed Oliver and many others Hockenson.  I would say DK was at best 3rd around here, and even that was not a lock as there were others that preferred other WR's over DK like Harry and Brown.  

 

Lol...never worked so hard to make someone realize that we aren't actually disagreeing on anything 😂

[gonzo1105]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Newb?  Ha, well I was an 11 year vet on this board in 2019 and had probably about 15K posts back then.  Newb I was not.  

 

 

Remember a mock draft is what you think they will do, not what you want them to do, otherwise thats a wish list, not a mock draft.  I knew they were going to address the OL in the draft, heck everyone knew that because we had to and they were showing a lot of interest in OL prospects ahead of the draft.  It wasn't a great draft overall...and definitely was not a great draft to be looking for a WR or OL help, but those were two areas many expected the Bills to address at some point in the draft.  

 

 

Don't disagree with that, but reaching isn't the solution to your equation.  My only stance is I don't want to reach for a 2nd round player in the first, I would rather trade back and pick up value then get said player.  But, if Beane and the scouts have someone they covet there at 28 and don't want to risk trading back, then I am all for them pulling the trigger.  

 

 

Im just saying the anti DK crowd for sure outnumbered the pro DK crowd on draft night.  And prior to the combine, there was almost no DK crowd here outside a handful of us.  Leading up to the draft there were a lot of people begging for Ed Oliver and many others Hockenson.  I would say DK was at best 3rd around here, and even that was not a lock as there were others that preferred other WR's over DK like Harry and Brown.  

 

Lol...never worked so hard to make someone realize that we aren't actually disagreeing on anything 😂

It was def trade up for Quinnen Williams, Ed Oliver or draft Hockenson as a fall back. People were pushing against Hockenson because he was a TE. 
 

Metcalf had a few supporters for 9 but it was def more prevalent when the Bills 2nd rounder came up. Most were fine with Ford cause he was seen as a 1st round value but you are right after the combine was when Metcalf became a consideration for 9 even to the point the talking heads said it was a possibility. 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

It was def trade up for Quinnen Williams, Ed Oliver or draft Hockenson as a fall back. People were pushing against Hockenson because he was a TE. 
 

Metcalf had a few supporters for 9 but it was def more prevalent when the Bills 2nd rounder came up. Most were fine with Ford cause he was seen as a 1st round value but you are right after the combine was when Metcalf became a consideration for 9 even to the point the talking heads said it was a possibility. 

 

Yeah, this is pretty much how it was and my experience of that draft 

[Punching Bag]

Who is this Jeremiah Bullfrog and why does he deserve his own thread for his mock draft which will likely change until draft and likely after draft be denied?

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

15 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I don't see the position as being premium enough to warrant a 1st round selection....unless you are getting what you believe is Chris Jones II 

 

Chris Jones wasn't even Chris Jones in his draft year (2016). He was the 6th pick in the 2nd round. He was a total 5-tech, 3-4 DE prototype at the time. A long, strong, physically gifted DL prospect who hadn't tapped into his true potential yet. But there were signs. And I guess that's a guy who's at least "in range" at the bottom of the 1st round. 

 

Love the idea of letting a big, strong, long DL prospect GROW into his frame over the years (opposite of Epenesa's journey). Darius Robinson is a guy who, despite being 25 lbs smaller than Jones was, has that similar combination of length, strength, and potential (when adjusted for eight years later). He is the ultimate tweener, poised to be a MUCH better pro than college player. Admittedly, I tend to believe a LOT of what I see at the Senior Bowl practices.

[Richard Noggin]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:27 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

If that were in their plans, they wouldn't have signed Mike Williams today to an up to 15m contract to go along with Garrett Wilson. 

 

The Jets will legitimately spend their day one pick on a player who immediately makes Rodgers happy. Obviously. 

 

That could be OL, TE, or WR. Depends how the board falls. Douglas has done well to date with his (first two days) draft layups. That's not true for every GM. 

 

On 3/19/2024 at 5:52 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

They only have 2 viable DT's on the roster in D.Jones and Ed Oliver, in past years they have had a lot of solid vet DT's plus Ed in the mix. This year Poona Ford and Tim Settle have signed elsewhere and Jordan Phillips is still a free agent. The Bills probably will enter the draft actually need to fill out the DT rotation by drafting at least one DT if not two. 

 

Ford, Settle, and Phillips meant the Bills "had a lot of solid vet DTs plus Ed in the mix?!"

 

With only one season of sack numbers but always suspect run fits, Phillips is the only guy mentioned who was anything more than a total JAG. They actually need at least one more legit talent in the pipeline. Injuries and rotations demand it.

 

On 3/19/2024 at 6:10 PM, BillsFan130 said:

You got Oliver and Daquon for the next 2 years at DT though.

 

i get the bills rotate a lot, but a first round pick on a rotational Dt who wouldn't even start is not appealing in my personal opinion lol

 

How did the Oliver and Daquon duo do in the playoffs the last two seasons? Dudes get hurt everywhere. Stacking talent at impact positions is vital. 

 

Invest in both lines, and in offensive skill positions, once you have your franchise QB. Our amazing defensive coaches need to keep having success with the LBs and DBs Beane and Co provides them, while the Bills invest in top notch offensive targets and NFL linemen.