JohnNord Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: I thought people were saying Von had a chance to earn a lot more than his paycut next year if he hit all his incentives. The way you laid it out here he would only earn more if he hit 15+ sacks, or 10.5+ sacks plus a Super Bowl appearance. So yeah this is just a straight up pay cut. Von didn't "bet on himself" as some have said. I am quite confident that Beane forced this on him with the threat of release. Yes because why would Von voluntarily take a pay cut? It doesn’t happen often and I’m pretty sure the NFLPA doesn’t support this. I think Beane laid out both scenarios and Von took the one that most beneficial to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 34 minutes ago, NewEra said: Not sure where they agreed with you that Von has no incentive to play harder….thats what you and I were discussing @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? No I wouldn't say that. I don't think it will make much difference how much incentive he does or doesn't have though. I think he is done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 35 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Why does this remind me of when mommy and daddy pulled me into a room to ask which house I wanted to live in Call me daddy!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No I wouldn't say that. I don't think it will make much difference how much incentive he does or doesn't have though. I think he is done. ok, so you agree that he’s likely try equally as hard as he would’ve had he not taken this pay cut. That was our discussion point. Yeah, know you think he’s done. I’ll hold out judgement regarding his effectiveness until I see him this season. If he was 💯 last season, I would agree, he’s done. Tre looked much better in 2023 in comparison to how he looked in 2022 after returning from the acl. Von is much older, so that could change things for him, but he’s also a generational type player and athlete. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 To those saying Beane had leverage in demanding a pay cut, I'm pretty sure Von was guaranteed $10.9 million dollars this coming season. He could have collected that money for doing absolutely nothing if the Bills had released him. He could have just trained and waited for a contender to sign him in the latter part of the season. 10.9 million plus whatever else he could get for playing part of a season, no mini camps, training camps, etc. He didn't have to do this, he had lots of options; one of them being collect $10.9 million for staying home and doing nothing. I don't have high expectations but I also won't be surprised if he can come back and be effective as a pass rush specialist this season. I'd rather the Bills get to find out as opposed to just eating $20+ million in dead cap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 10 minutes ago, NewEra said: ok, so you agree that he’s likely try equally as hard as he would’ve had he not taken this pay cut. That was our discussion point. Yeah, know you think he’s done. I’ll hold out judgement regarding his effectiveness until I see him this season. If he was 💯 last season, I would agree, he’s done. Tre looked much better in 2023 in comparison to how he looked in 2022 after returning from the acl. Von is much older, so that could change things for him, but he’s also a generational type player and athlete. The difference is Tre just looked tentative like he was scared to commit. Von could barely move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The difference is Tre just looked tentative like he was scared to commit. Von could barely move. I’ll withhold judgement until i see what he has this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Trev said: You can’t believe that. We were doing him a favor or coaches were trying to make protect gm, anyone could see he was a major liability all year last year. He should have never seen the field, he was terrible. Bills then did him another favor by not Araizanizing him after his domestic abuse charge. Whether or not Von Miller played at all was entirely up to the medical staff that cleared him to play and, more importantly, to the coaches who decide who plays and when. Just as it’s always been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, JohnNord said: If I was allowed to start a new thread, I would ask this question “How much do you blame Brandon Beane for missing on Von Miller?” Because I don’t blame him. He gave a lot of money to an older player, however he had no way of knowing Von would blow his ACL and never be the same player. This is the risk you run with ANY player, you’re always one bad injury. When Von was active, he made an impact and had he played an entire season in 2022, he’d likely rack up between 10-12 sacks. I guess you can point to his age, however really elite DE’s like Bruce Smith or Reggie White played very well into their 30’s. I wouldn’t put Von in that tier but he’s not that far off. Its easy to look at Von last season and then to look at his contract and think it was a colossal bust but in doing you, your using a lot of hindsight. Zero blame. He was fine until he got injured. I expect a somewhat productive Von next year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Turk71 said: To those saying Beane had leverage in demanding a pay cut, I'm pretty sure Von was guaranteed $10.9 million dollars this coming season. He could have collected that money for doing absolutely nothing if the Bills had released him. He could have just trained and waited for a contender to sign him in the latter part of the season. 10.9 million plus whatever else he could get for playing part of a season, no mini camps, training camps, etc. He didn't have to do this, he had lots of options; one of them being collect $10.9 million for staying home and doing nothing. I don't have high expectations but I also won't be surprised if he can come back and be effective as a pass rush specialist this season. I'd rather the Bills get to find out as opposed to just eating $20+ million in dead cap. absolutely no one was giving a substantial contract I’ll say I’m also not sure if he had offset language in those guarantees either. I’d think possibly, which would debunk your full premise. But even so…. for a guy like von - the possibility of no phone calls or bidding war and an actual risk of maybe getting few to no offers… and those offers to be incredibly low if they come…. And could only be places he doesn’t want to go. That’s incredibly humbling potentially and also could mark the end of his career. his tape last year was incredibly bad. instead he stays with a winner, looks good, extends his career confidently in a spot he’s comfortable while putting 7m in his pocket this week does have some appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 5 hours ago, NewEra said: Not sure where they agreed with you that Von has no incentive to play harder….thats what you and I were discussing @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? we are discussing the fact that he’s not betting on himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonderful Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/6/2024 at 6:23 PM, Dillenger4 said: OMG!! Amazing!! It is a reneg - re negotiate contact full confirmed. That is awesome. His $ is gone forever and it is now incentive ladden. Win-Win for us. And Tre gone makes my year!!!!!!!! Wimpiest Bill ever Wimpiest Bill ever? Dude tore his ACL and achilles. Geez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/7/2024 at 11:27 AM, BuffaloRebound said: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-millers-gets-back-to-17-5-million-with-10-5-sacks That all looks like not likely to be earned since he had zero sacks last year. He will likely get more snaps and less competition so may be getting coverage snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/7/2024 at 6:31 AM, Mr. WEO said: The Bills just cut better players than Miller is right now. He came for the money....now you think he will play harder for less? unlikely. On 3/7/2024 at 9:00 AM, NewEra said: He was coming off a tremendous playoff run with the Rams and looking like an all pro. He won a SB and played a big part in them winning it. Injury due to age was the only worry imo. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, the price tag wouldn’t be bad at all considering the players ability and work ethic. You can’t predict an acl tear. Was it a gamble? Definitely. Did he way overpay? I don’t think so. It’s a lot easier to say that after his injury. We needed a stud pass rusher….and most here wanted Chandler Jones to be that guy. 8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: we are discussing the fact that he’s not betting on himself No. You can try and turn it into that if you like, but I was discussing his effort and that his new contract gives him incentive to play hard. Not that he agreed to the contract because he expects to hit all or most of those incentives. He’s going to give max effort unless his knee is still jacked and the incentives in the contract ensure that imo. Some of the incentives are attainable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/7/2024 at 11:00 AM, NewEra said: He was coming off a tremendous playoff run with the Rams and looking like an all pro. He won a SB and played a big part in them winning it. Injury due to age was the only worry imo. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, the price tag wouldn’t be bad at all considering the players ability and work ethic. You can’t predict an acl tear. Was it a gamble? Definitely. Did he way overpay? I don’t think so. It’s a lot easier to say that after his injury. We needed a stud pass rusher….and most here wanted Chandler Jones to be that guy. At his age... We WAY overpaid. It was a desperation move by Beane. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, NewEra said: No. You can try and turn it into that if you like, but I was discussing his effort and that his new contract gives him incentive to play hard. Not that he agreed to the contract because he expects to hit all or most of those incentives. He’s going to give max effort unless his knee is still jacked and the incentives in the contract ensure that imo. Some of the incentives are attainable You are conflating a discussion of why he came to Buffalo with one of why he took his recent deal (because "he's betting on himself"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 15 minutes ago, Spiderweb said: At his age... We WAY overpaid. It was a desperation move by Beane. Except that he was playing really well until the ACL tear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 47 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Except that he was playing really well until the ACL tear He had some sacks and pressures but his run defense had already shown a decline to me even before his ACL tear. Yet again , HIS AGE more than anything else highlights why he was WAY over paid.... Sorry, but that's the simple truth. Edited March 9 by Spiderweb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 18 hours ago, Turk71 said: To those saying Beane had leverage in demanding a pay cut, I'm pretty sure Von was guaranteed $10.9 million dollars this coming season. He could have collected that money for doing absolutely nothing if the Bills had released him. He could have just trained and waited for a contender to sign him in the latter part of the season. 10.9 million plus whatever else he could get for playing part of a season, no mini camps, training camps, etc. He didn't have to do this, he had lots of options; one of them being collect $10.9 million for staying home and doing nothing. I don't have high expectations but I also won't be surprised if he can come back and be effective as a pass rush specialist this season. I'd rather the Bills get to find out as opposed to just eating $20+ million in dead cap. They get to find out while lowering his cap hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Regardless of why he did it, I'm glad they got that done.......I hated the contract when he signed it, I thought it was a big mistake, but that's history. Going into next season would you rather use up $20+ million in cap for absolutely nothing at all or find out if he can still play for $9 mil.? Von could have made more cash than that getting cut. 🤔 I don't see how this is not a win for the Bills. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/8/2024 at 4:36 PM, GunnerBill said: No I wouldn't say that. I don't think it will make much difference how much incentive he does or doesn't have though. I think he is done. Von converted his salary to incentives not just to help the team, but because he knows he is not done. Anyone watching him at the end of the year could see that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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