Buffalo03 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: I’ll give you Milano whom I overlooked given his absence … let’s hope he makes a full recovery by Week 1 next season and is backto his best…superstars show up in the playoffs so Oliver is out, although he had his best year so maybe he is still ascending … Bernard might get there one day soon … Douglas is a fine player but not elite I saw no difference between Douglas this season and early career Tre White. Douglas had like 5 INTs after the trade to us. He is pretty close to elite. But every team only has 2 maybe 3 true elite players. The Chiefs just have a top 3 all time HC coaching them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, nucci said: But they did have them and they won. People here need to live in reality. Me putting a perspective thought isn't me not accepting reality. I've said on this forum before that winning the super bowl is a combination of being talented and being healthy at the right now. The Chiefs were both, and they won. I think if the Bills have Milano and Tre White healthy and playing at the level they were at, their chance of winning goes up. Is that an outlandish thought? Just like if I said Sneed and Jones being out would hurt the Chiefs ability to win the Super Bowl. Is that really not living in reality? It's just a perspective based on ifs. 10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I will say it again. The Bills had the ball in Chiefs territory late in the Fourth Quarter...at home, with the chance to take the lead and go to the Championship Game. Milano would've been on the bench, along with the rest of the defense. The Bills (and their coaching staff) had one job to do at that critical moment....keep the damn ball, and not give it back to Mahomes. They failed once again! Our injuries had nothing to do with it. You cannot go back and relitigate the entire season. They were right where they wanted to be in the end. The Bills being in that position and the impact a healthy defense has on that game are two separate things. I'm sure the Bills take the position they were in 10 times out of 10. However, We will never know what position they would have been in if they had a healthy Milano and White. Do we believe Kelce does as much as he did in the first half if Milano is covering him? We had AJ Klein covering him and it was a problem from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, Cray51 said: Me putting a perspective thought isn't me not accepting reality. I've said on this forum before that winning the super bowl is a combination of being talented and being healthy at the right now. The Chiefs were both, and they won. I think if the Bills have Milano and Tre White healthy and playing at the level they were at, their chance of winning goes up. Is that an outlandish thought? Just like if I said Sneed and Jones being out would hurt the Chiefs ability to win the Super Bowl. Is that really not living in reality? It's just a perspective based on ifs. That's fair. I just don't like using ifs too much. It can make you crazy. If Norwood made the FG Bills are Superbowl champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 minutes ago, nucci said: That's fair. I just don't like using ifs too much. It can make you crazy. If Norwood made the FG Bills are Superbowl champs. I totally agree - I think it's one thing to say "If X/Y/Z happened we would be this, therefore we ARE this" and "X/Y/Z probably would have impacted the result we had." I think injuries are better ifs to discuss than lack of execution. I find lack of execution ifs much more annoying than "it sucks we didnt have these guys playing" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 No matter how much you polish that turd, a turd is a turd. There's no question we need higher caliber players on the roster. Besides, JA, there really is no one to carry the team. * Diggs is getting older and may have lost a step and i think it's starting to show. * I love Cook....loved him in college, but find the hole and hit it, man. Stop juking and jiving behind the line (like a poor man's Reggie Bush) and for christs sakes, don't be afraid to take a hit. Don't even get me started on his hands and dropped balls......ugh. * Kincaid is going to be a stud. He would be about the only one right now that i would put somewhere even close to the caliber of JA, but he's a few years out from his full potential. * Knox?....sometimes has flashes of brilliance, but overall, underwhelming. * Davis is too inconsistent.....move along, nothing to see here. * The entire O line is hit or miss from week to week, but when they do show up, my god the opportunities they create are astounding, however, it's few and far between. We need playmakers on O and it's not even debatable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, nucci said: That's fair. I just don't like using ifs too much. It can make you crazy. If Norwood made the FG Bills are Superbowl champs. But that's a completely different "IF" or hypothetical conversation. That 1990 Bills team is the perfect example of where you can say they were the best team in the league that year and deserved to win the Super Bowl. If those Bills and Giants teams played each other 10 times the Bills are probably beating them 7 or 8 times out of the 10. But I just can't do that for a team that has failed to make it out of the Divisional Round 3 straight years and hasn't advanced further than the AFC Championship game during this era. 49ers, Lions, and Ravens fans can all make the same claim they were the best team in the league this past year(not saying they would be right either) but they didn't catch the breaks to win the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Any team with a franchise level QB that got injured had worse injury luck than the Bills. At least in terms of impact on their team’s ability to win games. Would anyone here trade getting back every injured player we had for losing Allen? I sure wouldn’t. Just in the AFC, the Jets (Rodgers), Cincy (Burrow) and Browns (Watson, Chubb, top 4 OTs, etc) all had worse luck than the Bills. I would say the Jags (Lawrence) were also very unlucky. They were basically a lock for a playoff spot and fell off a cliff after the golden boy got a high ankle sprain. Looking at the NFC, Minny (Cousins) was super unlucky. I think he might have been MVP if he had stayed healthy. He was leading in all major passing categories when he went down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 The NFL has always been a game of attrition. Just here to say this is nothing but excuses, reality? Sure it's reality the Bills have 7 guys on IR this year and some bad luck in the Steelers game that left the Bills shy at LB but overcoming that is not monumental. If Allen and Diggs went down you would have a much better argument. Injuries are partly luck, partly player selection, partly training staff. The perception the Bills were super unlucky with injuries I don't think is justified. The Chiefs ended the year with 9 guys on IR and from scanning the list the Bills were one of the lowest IR teams. Now guys on IR is just a list, it does not address the impact of the specific players. In the past I have seen data from starts lost and whatnot, I dont know where to find that but I bet it shows the Bills were not unlucky. In the NFL every team deals with it, life is not fair so injury impact is not equal but guys are playing injured by the end of the season. The Chiefs lost Thuney for the SB, his loss was noticeable yet they found a way rather than make an excuse. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 13 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said: The NFL has always been a game of attrition. Just here to say this is nothing but excuses, reality? Sure it's reality the Bills have 7 guys on IR this year and some bad luck in the Steelers game that left the Bills shy at LB but overcoming that is not monumental. If Allen and Diggs went down you would have a much better argument. Injuries are partly luck, partly player selection, partly training staff. The perception the Bills were super unlucky with injuries I don't think is justified. The Chiefs ended the year with 9 guys on IR and from scanning the list the Bills were one of the lowest IR teams. Now guys on IR is just a list, it does not address the impact of the specific players. In the past I have seen data from starts lost and whatnot, I dont know where to find that but I bet it shows the Bills were not unlucky. In the NFL every team deals with it, life is not fair so injury impact is not equal but guys are playing injured by the end of the season. The Chiefs lost Thuney for the SB, his loss was noticeable yet they found a way rather than make an excuse. That's all pretty fair. My take immediately following the KC game was that we just lost one guy too many. Just give me either Bernard or Milano in that game. I felt like the situation at LB was simply too weak w/ the top guys out. I think what drove this thread was all of the hand-wringing about Beane I've been seeing, and to a lesser extent McDermott (with the latter, I think there is legit concern). If we hadn't been hit quite as hard, there is a chance we'd be singing the praises for both guys today. But your overall point is solid: great teams overcome it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 25 minutes ago, Success said: My take immediately following the KC game was that we just lost one guy too many My take is we lost a couple plays that were the difference. Guys just needed to execute. Dawkins got walked into Josh on probably a TD to take the lead. Bass shanked the FG. Butger hits everything when it matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 14 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: We are at a point that was expected though. Due to age and injuries it's time for "pruning" of this roster. I felt it should have happened this year,but they decided to " run it back" ( I hate that term) and it failed. But that happens. I hope Beane learned his lesson,and cuts bait this year with every contract that needs to be, and really hits on the draft. I figure this is a retool year where we go 9-8 or 10-7 with a wild card spot hopefully, and come roaring back in 2025. lol 9-8 ? As long as Allen plays without losing games to injury the Bills are the favourites in the east. September, October Dolphins will show up and then December, January Allen will show up. Jets are a complete question mark and Patriots are an afterthought. When you have a HOF QB in his prime the division and playoffs are the expectation every season regardless of players coming and going on the roster, that’s what having 17 does for your franchise, get used to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: The NFL has always been a game of attrition. Just here to say this is nothing but excuses, reality? Sure it's reality the Bills have 7 guys on IR this year and some bad luck in the Steelers game that left the Bills shy at LB but overcoming that is not monumental. If Allen and Diggs went down you would have a much better argument. Injuries are partly luck, partly player selection, partly training staff. The perception the Bills were super unlucky with injuries I don't think is justified. The Chiefs ended the year with 9 guys on IR and from scanning the list the Bills were one of the lowest IR teams. Now guys on IR is just a list, it does not address the impact of the specific players. In the past I have seen data from starts lost and whatnot, I dont know where to find that but I bet it shows the Bills were not unlucky. In the NFL every team deals with it, life is not fair so injury impact is not equal but guys are playing injured by the end of the season. The Chiefs lost Thuney for the SB, his loss was noticeable yet they found a way rather than make an excuse. Here's the 7 guys the Chiefs had on the IR that missed their playoff game against the Bills. Bryan Cook 13 starts in 28 NFL games Prince Tega Wanogho 0 starts in 23 NFL games Nazeeh Johnson 0 starts in 11 NFL games Jody Fortson 1 NFL start in 19 NFL games Gerrit Prince 0 NFL games, was on their practice squad Jerick McKinnon 18 starts in 116 NFL games, 0 starts in 42 games with the Chiefs Cam Jones 1 start in 17 NFL games They may have missed some guys but I wouldn't say they were as significant as the guys we lost. Edited February 19 by The Jokeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, Sweats said: No matter how much you polish that turd, a turd is a turd. There's no question we need higher caliber players on the roster. Besides, JA, there really is no one to carry the team. * Diggs is getting older and may have lost a step and i think it's starting to show. * I love Cook....loved him in college, but find the hole and hit it, man. Stop juking and jiving behind the line (like a poor man's Reggie Bush) and for christs sakes, don't be afraid to take a hit. Don't even get me started on his hands and dropped balls......ugh. * Kincaid is going to be a stud. He would be about the only one right now that i would put somewhere even close to the caliber of JA, but he's a few years out from his full potential. * Knox?....sometimes has flashes of brilliance, but overall, underwhelming. * Davis is too inconsistent.....move along, nothing to see here. * The entire O line is hit or miss from week to week, but when they do show up, my god the opportunities they create are astounding, however, it's few and far between. We need playmakers on O and it's not even debatable. my one “it’s all Monopoly money” signing is mike evans. I’d love it so much but know it’s unlikely. that catch radius, attitude and experience would be big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, The Jokeman said: Here's the 7 guys the Chiefs that were on the IR that missed their playoff game against the Bills. Bryan Cook 13 starts in 28 NFL games Prince Tega Wanogho 0 starts in 23 NFL games Nazeeh Johnson 0 starts in 11 NFL games Jody Fortson 1 NFL start in 19 NFL games Gerrit Prince 0 NFL games, was on their practice squad Jerick McKinnon 18 starts in 116 NFL games, 0 starts in 42 games with the Chiefs Cam Jones 1 start in 17 NFL games They may have missed some guys but I wouldn't say they were as significant as the guys we lost. KC lost Nadi in the WC round. Lost Thunny in the Divisional round. Then lost Omenihu in the Championship round. I think those were significant starters yet they found a way to win it all. It is what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Here's the 7 guys the Chiefs had on the IR that missed their playoff game against the Bills. Bryan Cook 13 starts in 28 NFL games Prince Tega Wanogho 0 starts in 23 NFL games Nazeeh Johnson 0 starts in 11 NFL games Jody Fortson 1 NFL start in 19 NFL games Gerrit Prince 0 NFL games, was on their practice squad Jerick McKinnon 18 starts in 116 NFL games, 0 starts in 42 games with the Chiefs Cam Jones 1 start in 17 NFL games They may have missed some guys but I wouldn't say they were as significant as the guys we lost. Two more were added before the SB including Thuney. So lets just agree the Chiefs were on the good side of injury luck this year. The Bills were not as devastated as some make it sound. You know going into the season you have to deal with attrition and with key guys. Some they dealt with , for instance with Tre White they eneded up trading for a guy I think is actually better right now. Tre white has barely seen the field for the last 2.5 years. Milano was a great loss, carrying Von was a liability but there were deeps at DE. Bernard really hurt for the KC playoff game but I just think you have to be able to overcome losing Bernard for a game even after Milano has been gone for 12 weeks. If you want to point to injuries then we can write the story of future seasons right now, there will be injures next year, the year after and the year after than until Josh retires. Last years injuries were something they could have and should have overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Should Cincy have overcome losing Burrow? Should the Jets have overcome losing Rodgers? No? Can we stop pretending injuries were a non-factor? As posted above, look at KC's injuries compared to ours going into that game. Can you look me in the eye and say those injuries were equitable? Of course not! The argument that "all teams get injuries", suggesting each team's injury situation was equally damaging is ridiculous. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Just now, The Red King said: Should Cincy have overcome losing Burrow? Should the Jets have overcome losing Rodgers? No? Can we stop pretending injuries were a non-factor? As posted above, look at KC's injuries compared to ours going into that game. Can you look me in the eye and say those injuries were equitable? Of course not! The argument that "all teams get injuries", suggesting each team's injury situation was equally damaging is ridiculous. Thank you. That's really all I was saying w/ the OP. Sometimes, you hit a critical mass on the injury front. Most pundits even talked about that before the KC game, and said they didn't think the Bills could overcome the losses against a relatively healthy Chiefs team. Even Nick Wright alluded to that. But, of course, after the game it's only "Mahomes bested Allen again." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Awesome. Will you be attending the “We would have won but …” banner raising ceremony? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, The Jokeman said: Here's the 7 guys the Chiefs had on the IR that missed their playoff game against the Bills. Bryan Cook 13 starts in 28 NFL games Prince Tega Wanogho 0 starts in 23 NFL games Nazeeh Johnson 0 starts in 11 NFL games Jody Fortson 1 NFL start in 19 NFL games Gerrit Prince 0 NFL games, was on their practice squad Jerick McKinnon 18 starts in 116 NFL games, 0 starts in 42 games with the Chiefs Cam Jones 1 start in 17 NFL games They may have missed some guys but I wouldn't say they were as significant as the guys we lost. Like the other poster mentioned, KC lost 3 more starters in the playoffs, including an all pro guard and their best edge rusher. Also, they were without Mike Edwards vs the Bills. And it's disingenuous to judge all those players by starts. McKinnon wasn't the starting RB, but he had 10 TDs in 2022. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 46 minutes ago, The Red King said: Should Cincy have overcome losing Burrow? Should the Jets have overcome losing Rodgers? No? Can we stop pretending injuries were a non-factor? As posted above, look at KC's injuries compared to ours going into that game. Can you look me in the eye and say those injuries were equitable? Of course not! The argument that "all teams get injuries", suggesting each team's injury situation was equally damaging is ridiculous. It depends on who is injured. Outside of losing your franchise qb teams will still find ways to compete and win. That’s the NFL in a nutshell. Some teams have even won Superbowls despite losing their QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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