2024 WR Draft Class

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Jerry Rice says "hold my beer"!! Did you see his 40 time? Didn't see many people catch him on the football field. 

 

It's never about just a testing time. The problem for Keon is long before he ran the 40 at the Combine the thing that everyone agreed was a potential red flag for NFL purposes on his tape was his separation ability. Then he went to the Combine at ran a 4.6 and confirms what the tape shows. This is a guy who is going to struggle to separate at the NFL level. 

 

It doesn't mean he can't play, or is bound to bust, but it means that it would not be a wise use of a 1st round pick. Personally, as I've said before, I look at Cooper Kupp as the comp. Bigger guy (okay Coleman is 6'4, Kupp is 6'2) who struggles to separate outside but is good with the ball in his hands. The Rams just plugged him in as a big slot and said "we'll scheme you open" and that is easier to do inside where you are going to get more free releases and see more zone coverage. Kupp went early round 3, Coleman still has a 2nd round grade on my board and most others that I speak to seem to agree. I know you might say "but in hindsight now you'd take Kupp in the first round!" And my answer would be - no I wouldn't. Because in the case of Kupp the results would justify that as a good tactical move, strategically it is still not a value way to spend a first round pick. 

[OldTimer1960]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Limited lateral ability?? The guy returned punts for the Noles. Maybe watch some of them on YouTube

I have watched more than his highlights.  He is fairly mobile laterally “for his size”, but he isn’t going to out-quick or out-run most NFL CBs in my opinion.  I could be wrong.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's never about just a testing time. The problem for Keon is long before he ran the 40 at the Combine the thing that everyone agreed was a potential red flag for NFL purposes on his tape was his separation ability. Then he went to the Combine at ran a 4.6 and confirms what the tape shows. This is a guy who is going to struggle to separate at the NFL level. 

 

It doesn't mean he can't play, or is bound to bust, but it means that it would not be a wise use of a 1st round pick. Personally, as I've said before, I look at Cooper Kupp as the comp. Bigger guy (okay Coleman is 6'4, Kupp is 6'2) who struggles to separate outside but is good with the ball in his hands. The Rams just plugged him in as a big slot and said "we'll scheme you open" and that is easier to do inside where you are going to get more free releases and see more zone coverage. Kupp went early round 3, Coleman still has a 2nd round grade on my board and most others that I speak to seem to agree. I know you might say "but in hindsight now you'd take Kupp in the first round!" And my answer would be - no I wouldn't. Because in the case of Kupp the results would justify that as a good tactical move, strategically it is still not a value way to spend a first round pick. 

Sorry if you posted it somewhere, but how do you rank the receivers and who do you see the Bills considering?
 

For me it’s

1a MHJ,

2a Nabers

2b Odunze

4 Thomas 

 

Then it gets muddled. I don’t think the Texas guys will be the pick (Mitchell attitude, Worthy limited by size)

 

I think, barring a trade up, the Bills are homing in on: 

 

Franklin (workout / visit)

McConkey (multiple interviews)

Roman Wilson (my gut)

 

My concerns with each are, respectively, lack of play strength, limited production, and limited production.

 

I want to like Franklin, but for some reason feel a bit better about the other two because they are just as fast and seem more versatile.
 

Maybe they are in on Leggette?

 

Whats your take?

 

PS In my dream reality we somehow land MHJ (who I sincerely believe could have a HOF kind of career with the right QB) while somehow still being able to build the team out elsewhere. One can dream…

 

 

Edited April 8 by NORWOODS FOOT

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's never about just a testing time. The problem for Keon is long before he ran the 40 at the Combine the thing that everyone agreed was a potential red flag for NFL purposes on his tape was his separation ability. Then he went to the Combine at ran a 4.6 and confirms what the tape shows. This is a guy who is going to struggle to separate at the NFL level. 

 

It doesn't mean he can't play, or is bound to bust, but it means that it would not be a wise use of a 1st round pick. Personally, as I've said before, I look at Cooper Kupp as the comp. Bigger guy (okay Coleman is 6'4, Kupp is 6'2) who struggles to separate outside but is good with the ball in his hands. The Rams just plugged him in as a big slot and said "we'll scheme you open" and that is easier to do inside where you are going to get more free releases and see more zone coverage. Kupp went early round 3, Coleman still has a 2nd round grade on my board and most others that I speak to seem to agree. I know you might say "but in hindsight now you'd take Kupp in the first round!" And my answer would be - no I wouldn't. Because in the case of Kupp the results would justify that as a good tactical move, strategically it is still not a value way to spend a first round pick. 

Further, the problem with Coleman as a big slot is that is where Kincaid lines up most of the time. I don't want to draft a WR high with the expectation that he needs to take snaps from Kincaid to see the field a lot.

[Back2Buff]

Someone on youtube put all the plays of Kincaid and Cook.  The change is how these two got the ball was pretty evident when Brady took over.  Tons of RPO and quick strike.  In saying that, I just dont see how some of these guys fit into that offense.  I just see guys like Ladd and Lagette as the best fits.  I dont see a guy like Brian Thomas even being that good of a fit TBH.  I think he is being used as a smoke screen.  I almost wonder if the Bills would have Worthy over him.

[OldTimer1960]

42 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

Someone on youtube put all the plays of Kincaid and Cook.  The change is how these two got the ball was pretty evident when Brady took over.  Tons of RPO and quick strike.  In saying that, I just dont see how some of these guys fit into that offense.  I just see guys like Ladd and Lagette as the best fits.  I dont see a guy like Brian Thomas even being that good of a fit TBH.  I think he is being used as a smoke screen.  I almost wonder if the Bills would have Worthy over him.

I think they would adjust the offense to take advantage of Thomas’ skill set.  Perhaps the Bills moved to the offense as you described it because they didn’t have a legitimate field stretcher/boundary guy with size.  Every 3-4 games Davis would fill that role and then he would disappear.  

[Back2Buff]

18 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think they would adjust the offense to take advantage of Thomas’ skill set.  Perhaps the Bills moved to the offense as you described it because they didn’t have a legitimate field stretcher/boundary guy with size.  Every 3-4 games Davis would fill that role and then he would disappear.  

 

I don't know man.  They had Davis and Diggs at this time.  Davis became invisible and Diggs became a screen WR.  Seemed like a pretty evident change into what Brady wants to do.  We had a successful offense with going downfield before with the same talent.  We changed the OC and had the same players.

[gonzo1105]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I have watched more than his highlights.  He is fairly mobile laterally “for his size”, but he isn’t going to out-quick or out-run most NFL CBs in my opinion.  I could be wrong.

 

He's 6'3 215 of course he's not going to out run guys who are 2-3 inches shorter and 20-30 pounds lighter than him. He's not a small guy and if he was outrunning DB's he wouldn't be considered in round 2 he'd be a top 10 pick.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

 

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

Someone on youtube put all the plays of Kincaid and Cook.  The change is how these two got the ball was pretty evident when Brady took over.  Tons of RPO and quick strike.  In saying that, I just dont see how some of these guys fit into that offense.  I just see guys like Ladd and Lagette as the best fits.  I dont see a guy like Brian Thomas even being that good of a fit TBH.  I think he is being used as a smoke screen.  I almost wonder if the Bills would have Worthy over him.

 

I agree. I think we are getting away from an offense that force feeds the ball to one receiver for 140+ targets every season. Diggs averaged just over 160 targets per season with the Bills these last four years. All of the "top 4" WR's in this draft would likely be guys demanding that type of work load. I think our offense is better suited to not have any one player targeted more than 120 times. 

 

I see Worthy as a legitimate possibility because he offers something none of our other players have in speed and could be a guy that sees less than 90 - 100 targets a season and still produces and threatens the defense vertically. I could also see them targeting WR in the 2nd round, hopefully with a trade up to get the guy they want. Doing so, sets the tone that, hey, you are piece to the puzzle here but you are not THE piece. 

[Chicken Boo]

8 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I prefer McConkey, but I'd be fine with Franklin as part of a tandem. The other fella better be a big bodied X, imo. Thomas, Mitchell, Legette, or even Coleman; maybe Walker a bit later.

 

Franklin is an X.  

[OldTimer1960]

30 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

I don't know man.  They had Davis and Diggs at this time.  Davis became invisible and Diggs became a screen WR.  Seemed like a pretty evident change into what Brady wants to do.  We had a successful offense with going downfield before with the same talent.  We changed the OC and had the same players.

I think Branden Beane has noted that a lot of defenses are taking away or making it harder to hit them deep by playing 2 high safeties as the Bills succeeded with Hyde and Poyer.  I also think that Diggs was hurt second half of the season or slowing down some.  
 

I don’t think any OC is going to say - hey, no deep shots in this offense because we don’t want to gain big yards in 1 play.  I expect if they can get a legitimate deep threat that we will see a few more deep shots, but coverage schemes will impact that as well.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Franklin is an X.  

 

He is but less a big bodied one which I presume was the point.

[Chicken Boo]

So far, I've only seen 2 receivers mentioned that Bills have met with formally at the combine, their pro days and have a top 30 visit scheduled and that's Troy Franklin and Devontez Walker.

 

What happened to that top-30 tracker thread?

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's never about just a testing time. The problem for Keon is long before he ran the 40 at the Combine the thing that everyone agreed was a potential red flag for NFL purposes on his tape was his separation ability. Then he went to the Combine at ran a 4.6 and confirms what the tape shows. This is a guy who is going to struggle to separate at the NFL level. 

 

It doesn't mean he can't play, or is bound to bust, but it means that it would not be a wise use of a 1st round pick. Personally, as I've said before, I look at Cooper Kupp as the comp. Bigger guy (okay Coleman is 6'4, Kupp is 6'2) who struggles to separate outside but is good with the ball in his hands. The Rams just plugged him in as a big slot and said "we'll scheme you open" and that is easier to do inside where you are going to get more free releases and see more zone coverage. Kupp went early round 3, Coleman still has a 2nd round grade on my board and most others that I speak to seem to agree. I know you might say "but in hindsight now you'd take Kupp in the first round!" And my answer would be - no I wouldn't. Because in the case of Kupp the results would justify that as a good tactical move, strategically it is still not a value way to spend a first round pick. 

I'm no scout or anything, but I watched him play and saw him separate from DBs with slants/outs but his QB was either late with the throw or off target. He wasn't able to outrun the DB deep, but was able to get DB on his hip and outmuscle/outjump the DB for the ball and made the catch. Like a power forward rebounding a ball for the putback. When Keon does get the ball in his hands on short passes, his ability to make a play after the catch is as good as anyone's in this draft. Like I said before, I see a young Michael Thomas/Brandon Marshall type receiver in Coleman. Some analysts comps him to Puka Nacua/Drake London. Don't forget he was also a member of an undefeated team that played without their starting QB most of the season. I like what I see in him personally

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm no scout or anything, but I watched him play and saw him separate from DBs with slants/outs but his QB was either late with the throw or off target. He wasn't able to outrun the DB deep, but was able to get DB on his hip and outmuscle/outjump the DB for the ball and made the catch. Like a power forward rebounding a ball for the putback. When Keon does get the ball in his hands on short passes, his ability to make a play after the catch is as good as anyone's in this draft. Like I said before, I see a young Michael Thomas/Brandon Marshall type receiver in Coleman. Some analysts comps him to Puka Nacua/Drake London. Don't forget he was also a member of an undefeated team that played without their starting QB most of the season. I like what I see in him personally

 

Where are the plays where you see the separation? Because I've done 6 games of Coleman and way before the combine I was saying I don't see it. He came out of the season with an indicative 1st on my board from tv viewing but when I really sat down and started to break the film down the more I watched the lower I got on him. He doesn't separate and for a guy who doesn't separate he isn't consistent enough at the catch point.

 

I agree with you on his ability after the catch. I love that element of his game. It is the thing I like most about him. It is another reason why I think he could be a monster of a big slot. He can duke with the ball in his hands or he can just run you over and when he gets up to full speed he is fast enough especially if inside against linebackers and safeties. As for your comps..... Thomas, Marshall and Nacua.... drafted 2nd, 4th and 5th rounds respectively and Drake London I said was overdrafted at the time and so far that looks correct (although London still separated better than Coleman IMO). If the Bills picked Coleman at #60, or with a small trade up in round 2 I'd be fine with it. At #28 or as the first receiver they take after a slight trade back into the top of the second I'd feel like they left better options on the board. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Someone on youtube put all the plays of Kincaid and Cook.  The change is how these two got the ball was pretty evident when Brady took over.  Tons of RPO and quick strike.  In saying that, I just dont see how some of these guys fit into that offense.  I just see guys like Ladd and Lagette as the best fits.  I dont see a guy like Brian Thomas even being that good of a fit TBH.  I think he is being used as a smoke screen.  I almost wonder if the Bills would have Worthy over him.

You need players that compliment each other. Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel will eat up underneath stuff and RPO’s. Now you need to compliment them with field stretchers and field wideners. 

Guys who threaten the defense with speed and suddenness. 
 

I think they all fit but if you can get that at 28 or further back then maybe there’s no point in trading up. 

 

Edited April 8 by Buffalo_Stampede

[DCOrange]

I think the part of Keon's game that can theoretically translate immediately are things like backshoulder throws and just contested catches in general over the middle. That, his run blocking ability, and the YAC stuff should allow him to have an immediate role in an offense.

 

There's a lot of areas where he needs to grow. He's the second youngest WR in the draft class (beating out Xavier Worthy by a couple weeks). One thing that would help a ton is that there's reps where he properly uses that strong body of his to get the route leverage that he wants and then lean into the DB before exploding away to create a lot of separation. It's not something that he does consistently right now, but given his combination of youth, physical tools, and seemingly good intangibles, those that might take him early are betting on him making stuff like that a more common occurrence.

 

I think a few years earlier in our team building, Coleman is someone that Beane would have had a ton of interest in. I'm not so sure about that in 2024.

Edited April 8 by DCOrange

[Motorin']

4 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Someone on youtube put all the plays of Kincaid and Cook.  The change is how these two got the ball was pretty evident when Brady took over.  Tons of RPO and quick strike.  In saying that, I just dont see how some of these guys fit into that offense.  I just see guys like Ladd and Lagette as the best fits.  I dont see a guy like Brian Thomas even being that good of a fit TBH.  I think he is being used as a smoke screen.  I almost wonder if the Bills would have Worthy over him.

 

Except the Bills literally had no deep threats for Brady to scheme with. Brian Thomas would give the offense the added dimension of a big bodied flyer on the outside that kills downfield.

 

 

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

So far, I've only seen 2 receivers mentioned that Bills have met with formally at the combine, their pro days and have a top 30 visit scheduled and that's Troy Franklin and Devontez Walker.

 

What happened to that top-30 tracker thread?

 

This is all I found: 

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2024/03/nfl-draft-2024-buffalo-bills-top-30-visitors-zoom-meetings-and-private-workout-tracker.html

 

And this is from Walter Football:

 

Braelon Allen, Running Back, Wisconsin (COM)

Graham Barton, Offensive Guard, Duke (COM)

Trey Benson, Running Back, Florida State (T30)

Khristian Boyd, Defensive Tackle, Northern Iowa (T30)

Javon Bullard, Cornerback, Georgia (COM)

Calen Bullock, Safety, USC (COM)

Stefan Cobbs, Wide Receiver, Boise State (PRO)

Keon Coleman, Wide Receiver, Florida State (COM)

Cooper DeJean, Safety, Iowa (COM)

Marlon Devonshire^, Cornerback, Pittsburgh (PRO, WOR)

Audric Estime, Running Back, Notre Dame (COM)

Braden Fiske, Defensive Tackle, Florida State (COM)

Troy Franklin^, Wide Receiver, Oregon (COM, WOR)

Frank Gore Jr., Running Back, Southern Miss (COM)

Jalyx Hunt, Outside Linebacker, Houston Baptist (COM)

Curtis Jacobs, Inside Linebacker, Penn State (COM)

Kamren Kinchens, Safety, Miami (COM)

Marshawn Kneeland, Defensive End, Western Michigan (T30)

Kamari Lassiter, Cornerback, Georgia (COM)

Xavier Legette, Wide Receiver, South Carolina (COM)

Jalen McMillan, Wide Receiver, Washington (COM)

Adonai Mitchell, Wide Receiver, Texas (COM)

Byron Murphy II, Defensive Tackle, Texas (COM)

Bo Nix, Quarterback, Oregon (COM)

Patrick Paul, Offensive Tackle, Houston (COM)

Javon Solomon^, 3-4 Outside Linebacker, Troy (COM, VIR)

Brian Thomas Jr., Wide Receiver, LSU (COM)

Edefuan Ulofoshio, Inside Linebacker, Washington (VIR)

Devontez Walker, Wide Receiver, North Carolina (T30)

Tez Walker^, Wide Receiver, North Carolina (COM, PRO)

Johnny Wilson, Wide Receiver, Florida State (COM)

Payton Wilson, Linebacker, N.C. State (COM)

Roman Wilson, Wide Receiver, Michigan (COM)

Xavier Worthy, Wide Receiver, Texas (COM)

 

They have Walker on here twice so it does look like they met with him 3 times. 

Edited April 8 by MrEpsYtown

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Except the Bills literally had no deep threats for Brady to scheme with. Brian Thomas would give the offense the added dimension of a big bodied flyer on the outside that kills downfield.