The Gabe Davis conversation (Allen with and without Gabe)

[WhoTom]

9 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Maybe he should put on 25 pounds and convert to TE.

 

Or you could let Gabe go and have a true TE do the blocking and occasional pass-catching.

 

I'm not a Gabe hater - I was all about giving him the season and possibly seeing if he'd re-sign on a team-friendly deal, but he never made the jump I was hoping for. Unless he significantly and consistently contributes to the passing game throughout the playoffs, then I wouldn't even make him an offer. Let him test FA and whatever another team offers him, don't match it.

 

 

 

[DapperCam]

1 minute ago, WhoTom said:

 

Or you could let Gabe go and have a true TE do the blocking and occasional pass-catching.

 

I'm not a Gabe hater - I was all about giving him the season and possibly seeing if he'd re-sign on a team-friendly deal, but he never made the jump I was hoping for. Unless he significantly and consistently contributes to the passing game throughout the playoffs, then I wouldn't even make him an offer. Let him test FA and whatever another team offers him, don't match it.

 

 

 

Even if he has a big playoffs, let’s not be fooled. He’s shown who he is with a large sample size. If we re-sign him, we will regret it.

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If Gabe broke off his route to just run to open space, that’s even worse.

 

I’m almost positive it was an option though. You can actually see Davis reading the leverage before making his turn.

 

And I highly doubt Allen would simply throw it to a random area if he knew where Gabe was going.

Tough to tell from the broadcast angle because he goes out of frame at the breakpoint, but Gabe pushes into the leverage of the DB before pivoting back. If it were a true option route he would have recognized outside leverage immediately and converted it to the bang 8 he actually ran without burying himself in the DB first.

[KDIGGZ]

Bills offense is better without Gabe and Knox. Get these guys out of here and get a legit #2 or 1B option!

[NewEra]

Watching Gabe limping around, I told my buddies “good, now Josh won’t be able to throw the ball to Gabe on any more 3rd downs.  This is going to be addition by subtraction”.  I wasn’t wrong.  
 

great to see Kincaid and Diggs with 7 receptions and Shakir with 6.   Shak is a beast with the ball in his hands and is a legit playmaker 

[Einstein]

Update: Brian Baldinger says this was in fact an option (choice) route by Gabe Davis. Calls it "miscommunication".

When nearly 40% of INT's are when targeting one player who only receives 15% of the targets... there is a problem.
 

@Beck Water
 

 

Edited January 8 by Einstein

[Drew21PA]

Lo and behold yet another one on one opportunity for Gabe and he just seems to go the wrong way and int

 

Then he as another opp - nope but frame gabe just falls over 

 

2 picks inside redzone both targeting Gabe

[babulator]

Can you imagine playing with a future HOF QB that's shattering NFL records and despite being given every opportunity, you just can't seem to get on the same page as him? 🔫 We've seen enough of Gabe, it's time to move on.

[Scott7975]

18 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages.  I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage).  Anyone?  I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance)

 

Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not.

 

But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help.  Allen has to be better and make better decisions.

 

I'm not going to put blame on either because I just don't know.  What I will say is that it was a cover zero.  Some people are saying Josh didn't even look before he threw but that isn't correct.  It was fast but Josh threw the ball to the exact spot Gabe was at the time of release.  Josh was also out of time when he threw it.  Being cover zero, IMO Gabe should have been cutting his route and looking for the ball.  Instead, when Josh threw the ball, Gabe wasn't even looking.  He was finishing a route then turning to look for the ball.  Had he just turned around on a cover zero like I think he should have, it would have been a TD.

 

Just my opinion on it.  I posted a thread with Cover 1's breakdown of the offensive plays.  That play is in there.  Either way, I have been saying for most of the season that Josh and Gabe are not on the same page.  I don't care who is wrong, they just don't vibe with each other chemistry wise.  This doesn't really happen with any other receiver on the team. Time to move on and get a better receiver on the outside.  One that Josh can vibe with.  One that has better skills.

Edited January 9 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

If Gabe broke off his route to just run to open space, that’s even worse.

 

I’m almost positive it was an option though. You can actually see Davis reading the leverage before making his turn.

 

And I highly doubt Allen would simply throw it to a random area if he knew where Gabe was going.

 

Davis was actually breaking outside when Allen threw it.  Davis then spun and turned towards the inside while the ball was in the air.  The ball was at the spot Davis broke to initially.  Josh was out of time at that point.  It wasn't a guess from Allen.  Its where Davis was going when Allen released the ball.  Davis didn't even look for the ball until after he turned, broke back inside, and it was already intercepted.

Edited January 9 by Scott7975

[Best Williams Available]

It doesn’t matter how talented a WR is. If they don’t produce for a QB enough to be trustworthy for that QB they are effectively useless. 
 

Think Marvin Harrison. Talent-wise limited, but hugely impactful for P Manning. 
 

Shakir and Kincaid have grown that connection with Josh this year and their production over Gabe’s makes him expendable, unfortunately.

[JoshAllin]

Gabe was staring at the blitzers the whole time, if he stays in the curl route option its an easy TD as he over powers Apple right there

[McMuffin]

Every time Josh throws to Gabe, I wince a little bit because I’m bracing for something bad to happen whether it’s an int or a drive-killing drop/ miscommunication on a route.

 

41 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

It doesn’t matter how talented a WR is. If they don’t produce for a QB enough to be trustworthy for that QB they are effectively useless. 
 

Think Marvin Harrison. Talent-wise limited, but hugely impactful for P Manning. 
 

Shakir and Kincaid have grown that connection with Josh this year and their production over Gabe’s makes him expendable, unfortunately.

I wouldn’t say limited.  Sure he was slightly built but he was an explosive player who ran exceptional routes.  

[YattaOkasan]

19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree he's an outstanding blocker but if that's his #1 skill as our so-called #2WR, we're in serious trouble. I just can't watch Gabe run routes anymore.  Or adjust to pressure he can see is coming at Josh.  I'm rolling with Diggs, Shakir, Kincaid and Sherfield from here on out. I can live with a little less blocking. 

Yeah blocking as your calling card is majoring in minor things as joe Marino would say. I think we need more separation from WR2. If you can get separation and block we’ll like Robert woods great. But you need to get open and catch primarily. In those two areas I think Gabe is below average. 

Edited January 9 by YattaOkasan

[Thrivefourfive]

But Gabe is a captain! and he allegedly earned it… and it wasn’t a charity decision 🤣

[TBBills Fan]

19 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Are you seriously giving somebody ***** for over posting?!

When they've all been viable topics?

For real?

<fingers twitch toward banhammer......>

[Richard Noggin]

19 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

But Gabe is a captain! and he allegedly earned it… and it wasn’t a charity decision 🤣

 

He admittedly looks like an awesome teammate out there. His guys really do love him. 

[DCofNC]

20 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages.  I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage).  Anyone?  I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance)

 

Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not.

 

But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help.  Allen has to be better and make better decisions.

I’d be with you, BUT Gabe is the target on a disproportionate percentage of the interceptions.  Allen doesn’t have these problems with literally anyone else.   Now he makes some bad throws, balls get tipped or whatever when he’s throwing to other guys, but when he throws to Davis there is a MUCH higher chance it’s going to go wrong.  To me, that says, Davis is not on the same page and he’s the only one, so it’s not JA that’s the issue.  We all know which one is staying, and which one we can all hope signs with the Chiefs.

1 hour ago, Best Williams Available said:

It doesn’t matter how talented a WR is. If they don’t produce for a QB enough to be trustworthy for that QB they are effectively useless. 
 

Think Marvin Harrison. Talent-wise limited, but hugely impactful for P Manning. 
 

Shakir and Kincaid have grown that connection with Josh this year and their production over Gabe’s makes him expendable, unfortunately.

wtf are you taking about with Marvin Harrison?  He was a 1st round pick, and had ELITE skills, not to mention was perfectly in tune with Peyton. 

[HoofHearted]

20 hours ago, Einstein said:

Update: Brian Baldinger says this was in fact an option (choice) route by Gabe Davis. Calls it "miscommunication".

When nearly 40% of INT's are when targeting one player who only receives 15% of the targets... there is a problem.
 

@Beck Water
 

 

If it truly was an option then Gabe ran a poor route, but ultimately Allen's at fault for the INT. He threw the wrong ball based on the leverage.

Edited January 9 by HoofHearted

[Einstein]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

but ultimately Allen's at fault for the INT. He threw the wrong ball.

 

Very well could be. But it’s happening with Gabe at a significantly higher clip than any other WR. Whether that be because Allen assumes Gabe will do the wrong thing so he pattern matches, or something Gabe is doing makes Allen unable to read what choice he will take, there is some sort of miscommunication that is happening with Gabe and Gabe alone.