Coaching/QB desert

[Marlton Bills]

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

[Mango]

Who is calling for a QB’s head? Even among the Allen critics I can only think of one poster who wants to move on. The rest just want his floor to be considerably higher in some games. 

[RyanC883]

or, you can be like San Diego or Miami in the 90’s and ruin great QBs careers with a subpar coach.

 

McD would go, at best, squeak into the playoffs every year.  

 

McD has had time to figure it out.  He continues to blow late leads, waste timeouts, and make other bad in game decisions.  

[ToGoGo]

33 minutes ago, Marlton Bills said:

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

What you’re seeing is a deeply wounded, deeply impatient, deeply emotional, and deeply untrusting fanbase dealing with heavy adversity. 
 

Instead of giving them wisdom, give yourself the wisdom of ignoring them. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

34 minutes ago, Marlton Bills said:

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

If this is meant to suggest that Brian Brohm never received a fair chance I am with you.

[TBBills Fan]

I thought based on the title this was going to be a new reality tv idea

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Marlton Bills said:

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

 

The underlying premise of your entire post is that McDoesn'tKnow is actually contributing to our winning.  

Is he?  

 

Seems to just about everyone except for his most stubborn and ardent supporters, that he's a weak link, not something that propels this team forward, other than with the typical nonpalpable soft indicators like character, culture based upon "The Process," which to date absolutely no one has defined, not even him, etc.  

 

The counter argument is that it really shouldn't take very much to consistently get top performance from this offense, not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs.   

 

That's something that we haven't seen with McDoesn'tKnow in charge.   To a whole lot of people we're getting about as little as possible from this assemblage of talent on offense.  What, Allen's going to be a 12th-ranked QB?  LOL, not a chance.  

 

As it has been posed in the past, McD's arrival preceded Allen's.  

 

Had Allen been here first, what are the odds that someone making the decision on which coach to hire, would have put McD on the short list?  That seems incredibly unlikely as he's a bad fit for that.  Simply because he was here first does not make him a good fit, nor does it mitigate, diminish, much less eliminate his liabilities to this team.  

 

The two, Allen and McD, simply aren't made for each other.  

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by PBF81

[LABILLBACKER]

52 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

or, you can be like San Diego or Miami in the 90’s and ruin great QBs careers with a subpar coach.

 

McD would go, at best, squeak into the playoffs every year.  

 

McD has had time to figure it out.  He continues to blow late leads, waste timeouts, and make other bad in game decisions.  

Thank you

Josh is elite

Sean is a clown

[Solomon Grundy]

I still say Doug Moron and Hatchet destroyed EJ Manuel's career. 

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I still say Doug Moron and Hatchet destroyed EJ Manuel's career. 

I want to say Buddy Nix destroyed EJ's career when he picked him in the 1st round instead of the 3rd or later like a normal non-senile person would do. Too much pressure as a 1st rounder and he might have stuck around as a backup if he was just a 3rd rounder who didn't have the expectations to start right away.

 

But in the end I think EJ destroyed EJ's career by not being good at football. He was never really a g good at any level. Has the EJ Manuel stock price officially hit $0 yet? Or were the shareholders able to cash in now that he is a commentator?

[BullBuchanan]

When I have an average coach who isn't capable of elevating his team, I'd rather roll the dice to see if I can find a force multiplier, even if it means I get a worse coach in the interim. A GM/owner who knows what they're doing should at minimum be able to get a hire that's competent. It's finding the special talent that's hard or even lucky.

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

When I have an average coach who isn't capable of elevating his team, I'd rather roll the dice to see if I can find a force multiplier, even if it means I get a worse coach in the interim. A GM/owner who knows what they're doing should at minimum be able to get a hire that's competent. It's finding the special talent that's hard or even lucky.

 

Yet how many coaches get fired and run clown show football operations?

 

You're significantly undervaluing McDs strengths

[Billsfan1972]

25 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Yet how many coaches get fired and run clown show football operations?

 

You're significantly undervaluing McDs strengths

Remind me of them again????

 

Are you going to trot out Culture or Process????

 

I won't even go back to 13 seconds and the error after error on his watch that was committed to allow KC to tie the game. 

 

All I have to do is say he had 12 men on the field vs. Denver knowing on second down they were not trying for anymore yards.....  How much more do you need to know?

Edited December 7, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Marlton Bills]

My point is it’s easy to get a new coach…I don’t think it’s  easy to get a better coach. Despite McDermott’s short comings, he’s the best coach we’ve had since Marv Levy. 

[SirAndrew]

I don’t think the Bills would ever be as bad as the 70’s and parts of the 80’s. The league has too much parity/mediocrity, and very few teams have extremely poor records these days. Teams are more likely to stumble towards a .500 record at the end of the year. This season has been exactly like many of the drought years record wise, but we have Josh Allen at QB. I’m not convinced this season could have gone more poorly with anyone in charge. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Marlton Bills said:

My point is it’s easy to get a new coach…I don’t think it’s  easy to get a better coach. Despite McDermott’s short comings, he’s the best coach we’ve had since Marv Levy. 

Again why?  The Bills drafted JA and even then it took him until the third year to figure out what he had & this year has hindered him in many way from what I see.

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

I want to say Buddy Nix destroyed EJ's career when he picked him in the 1st round instead of the 3rd or later like a normal non-senile person would do. Too much pressure as a 1st rounder and he might have stuck around as a backup if he was just a 3rd rounder who didn't have the expectations to start right away.

 

But in the end I think EJ destroyed EJ's career by not being good at football. He was never really a g good at any level. Has the EJ Manuel stock price officially hit $0 yet? Or were the shareholders able to cash in now that he is a commentator?

I believe EJ was just as talented as Hurts. Hurts had Doug Pederson to help guide his career. EJ had Moron. I'm watching the same thing happen to Justin Fields right now. 

[BillsVet]

The game changes fast and comparisons to the 60s, 90s, or even 2010s are irrelevant now.  This is a win-now league and certain teams with franchise QB's get after that goal with greater urgency than others.  Doesn't mean make reactionary moves, only that those who play it safe end up losing.  

 

It's why the people here (prior to the DV issue) ragging on Buffalo for signing Von Miller are just following talking heads' opinions.  Because prior to 2021, the Bills had a pass rush issue not featuring a guy who could get to the QB consistently.  Had no issue with the Miller signing.  Or, when it came time to draft a QB they went with the most physically gifted guy.  You take controlled risks within your plan.    

 

We've seen Josh make plays in the playoffs that should have won at least 1 game.  He's not perfect and this off-season needs to get his mindset sharpened.  But the weak link in Buffalo is the HC who, at crucial times falls short all too often.  

[BarleyNY]

13 hours ago, Marlton Bills said:

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

 

Sticking with an inadequate HC because of fear of choosing worse the next time around is a coward’s mentality. It imposes a ceiling of above average on a championship caliber roster. 

[BBFL]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

. 

 

It's why the people here (prior to the DV issue) ragging on Buffalo for signing Von Miller are just following talking heads' opinions.  Because prior to 2021, the Bills had a pass rush issue not featuring a guy who could get to the QB consistently.  Had no issue with the Miller signing.  Or, when it came time to draft a QB they went with the most physically gifted guy.  You take controlled risks within your plan.    

 

We've seen Josh make plays in the playoffs that should have won at least 1 game.  He's not perfect and this off-season needs to get his mindset sharpened.  But the weak link in Buffalo is the HC who, at crucial times falls short all too often.  

hold on a second mate… it doesn’t take a “talking head” to let someone see the Von signing not paying the dividend it should. Guy is getting up there in playing age and the tape shows that after coming back from his injury, even if the claim people make of “only being 75% back to himself”, he can be not existent. His stats the past 3 years show a decline in sacks; 8/9.5/8, average. Especially for a 6/$120m with a buyout in 2025 for $52.4m. 
 

[TDO'Kearney]

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I still say Doug Moron and Hatchet destroyed EJ Manuel's career. 

the first quarterback in NFL history to lose a game in three countries (United States, Canada, and England)

the first quarterback in NFL history to be on a team that would lose a game in four different countries (United States, Canada, England, and Mexico)

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I believe EJ was just as talented as Hurts. Hurts had Doug Pederson to help guide his career. EJ had Moron. I'm watching the same thing happen to Justin Fields right now. 

EJ is still out there.  33 is young for a QB these days. Even though he retired in 2019, could always talk him off the couch.

Edited December 7, 2023 by TDO'Kearney

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

or, you can be like San Diego or Miami in the 90’s and ruin great QBs careers with a subpar coach.

 

McD would go, at best, squeak into the playoffs every year.  

 

McD has had time to figure it out.  He continues to blow late leads, waste timeouts, and make other bad in game decisions.  

 

 

That ain't McD.

 

It's the Buffalo Bills who are blowing late leads. And plenty of those decisions you're calling bad aren't necessarily. They could easily have produced the best possible outcomes. He deserves his share of the blame. Blaming him entirely says more about you than it does about him.

 

Folks like you want to give all the credit for the good stuff to Allen and the players and put all the blame for the bad stuff on Sean. Doing that absolutely destroys claims to logic and neutrality of point of view. It's not clear thinking.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Thurman#1

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, BBFL said:

hold on a second mate… it doesn’t take a “talking head” to let someone see the Von signing not paying the dividend it should. Guy is getting up there in playing age and the tape shows that after coming back from his injury, even if the claim people make of “only being 75% back to himself”, he can be not existent. His stats the past 3 years show a decline in sacks; 8/9.5/8, average. Especially for a 6/$120m with a buyout in 2025 for $52.4m. 
 

 

I'm not aware of any fans here who are paying Miller's salary.  If there are and now that investment is struggling, I'd like to know.  I'll predict people will point to this move for why they're in cap trouble which is wrong.  

 

Besides, hindsight is 20/20.  Most of the fans here complaining about the 2023 (before the DV issue) Miller were championing him coming to Buffalo in March 2022.  For many, their collective Bills inferiority complex highlighted this signing as evidence the Bills could attract name UFA's.    

 

Now, those same people complain that he's not worth it.  Well, which is it?  I don't expect people to announce their own mea culpa because that'd require wiping the egg off their face.  

 

And if you're still clenching your fists, then blame McBeane for prioritizing the pass rush at this cost.  The player was performing before the injury.  

[BBFL]

36 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'm not aware of any fans here who are paying Miller's salary.  If there are and now that investment is struggling, I'd like to know.  I'll predict people will point to this move for why they're in cap trouble which is wrong.  

 

Besides, hindsight is 20/20.  Most of the fans here complaining about the 2023 (before the DV issue) Miller were championing him coming to Buffalo in March 2022.  For many, their collective Bills inferiority complex highlighted this signing as evidence the Bills could attract name UFA's.    

 

Now, those same people complain that he's not worth it.  Well, which is it?  I don't expect people to announce their own mea culpa because that'd require wiping the egg off their face.  

 

And if you're still clenching your fists, then blame McBeane for prioritizing the pass rush at this cost.  The player was performing before the injury.  

You can still champion for a guy to come here to the ends of the earth and it not work out. That decision doesn’t lead to “clenching fists” because of the point you made… fans aren’t paying the salary. Irrespective of which doesn’t mean an observation can’t be voiced. 
 

It hasn’t lived up to the expectation. Plain and simple. If that isn’t your perception then props to you bro. 

[HardyBoy]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Remind me of them again????

 

Are you going to trot out Culture or Process????

 

I won't even go back to 13 seconds and the error after error on his watch that was committed to allow KC to tie the game. 

 

All I have to do is say he had 12 men on the field vs. Denver knowing on second down they were not trying for anymore yards.....  How much more do you need to know?

 

Staley, Saleh, dude for the Bears previously, Rex Ryan, Hackett, dude for the Cardinals a few years back...I could go on and on and on, but that's off the top of my head thinking for a minute...head coaching is sooo much more than just Xs and Os

[Marlton Bills]

15 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again why?  The Bills drafted JA and even then it took him until the third year to figure out what he had & this year has hindered him in many way from what I see.

They went to the playoffs WITHOUT Josh Allen

[mrags]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:50 PM, PBF81 said:

 

The underlying premise of your entire post is that McDoesn'tKnow is actually contributing to our winning.  

Is he?  

 

Seems to just about everyone except for his most stubborn and ardent supporters, that he's a weak link, not something that propels this team forward, other than with the typical nonpalpable soft indicators like character, culture based upon "The Process," which to date absolutely no one has defined, not even him, etc.  

 

The counter argument is that it really shouldn't take very much to consistently get top performance from this offense, not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs.   

 

That's something that we haven't seen with McDoesn'tKnow in charge.   To a whole lot of people we're getting about as little as possible from this assemblage of talent on offense.  What, Allen's going to be a 12th-ranked QB?  LOL, not a chance.  

 

As it has been posed in the past, McD's arrival preceded Allen's.  

 

Had Allen been here first, what are the odds that someone making the decision on which coach to hire, would have put McD on the short list?  That seems incredibly unlikely as he's a bad fit for that.  Simply because he was here first does not make him a good fit, nor does it mitigate, diminish, much less eliminate his liabilities to this team.  

 

The two, Allen and McD, simply aren't made for each other.  

 

 

This is the biggest point to me. Look at both Allen and McDumpy in this argument. 
 

without McDoopa, is Allen still a top 2-3 QB in this league?

 

without Allen, is McDork a top 2-3 HC in this league?

 

hell, McDummy isn’t a top 2-3 HC now and that’s with the 2nd Best QB in the league. Without him, McDork would be a 9-8 team and squeezing into the last playoff spot some years. Allen without McClappy would still be a top QB in this league and still winning division titles and putting up perfect games. 
 

if you think about it, it tells you everything you need to know about the situation. But people still refuse to believe it. 
 

with all that said I don’t think McDonalds Clappy Meal is going anywhere. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by mrags

[T master]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:22 PM, RyanC883 said:

or, you can be like San Diego or Miami in the 90’s and ruin great QBs careers with a subpar coach.

 

McD would go, at best, squeak into the playoffs every year.  

 

McD has had time to figure it out.  He continues to blow late leads, waste timeouts, and make other bad in game decisions.  

 

So then your saying they should have fired Marv after the second or 3rd SB the Bills of the 90's lost, and that all of those losses during that time were totally on Marv & none of the out come on the players ??

 

Then you would also put Shula in that category because he had Marino & only went to 1 SB while he had him on the teams roster ? 

[Drew21PA]

Naw coach can go it’s always the quarterback

 

inmean look what happened when we brought in a semi competent qb during the drought?

 

was like woah!  Even if it was Kyle orton 

[Eastport bills]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:49 PM, Marlton Bills said:

When calling for a coach or a quarterback’s head, I recommend caution.  When it comes to QB’s in our history, we went from Kemp in the 1960’s to Kelly in the 1990’s and now Allen in the 2020’s. A lot of large gaps!  Coaching is similar…(take your pick here)…I’d say Saban,  Knox, Levy, McDermott. Some will want to throw Wade in there for good measure.  My point is it’s not easy to run out and get a new one and especially one that will be immediately better.  

 

not everyone can have the good fortune of Green Bay when it comes to quarterbacks or Pittsburgh when it comes to coaches. 
 

i think we have to expect and hope that McDermott and Allen figure out what it is they need to do to win. 

Sorry, Sean’s had 6 years to figure it out and the team’s poor record can be traced to regression on Sean’s side of the ball. Now much of the problem is underwhelming personnel decisions ( overpaying Miller, whiffing on Elam and reliance on Hyde and Poyer who’s play is not commensurate with their cap hits. This sadly falls on the HC and will take a few years to overcome.

[Big Turk]

Anyone calling for Allen's head needs to immediately go take a long walk off a short pier and never come back.  He is BY FAR the best QB this franchise has ever had and he compares very favorably to some other HOF QB's as well and to his peers.  This is standardized to make it an even playing field for whatever era a QB played in.

 

   

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Big Turk

[dave mcbride]

23 hours ago, BBFL said:

hold on a second mate… it doesn’t take a “talking head” to let someone see the Von signing not paying the dividend it should. Guy is getting up there in playing age and the tape shows that after coming back from his injury, even if the claim people make of “only being 75% back to himself”, he can be not existent. His stats the past 3 years show a decline in sacks; 8/9.5/8, average. Especially for a 6/$120m with a buyout in 2025 for $52.4m. 
 

He was on pace last season for 13 sacks. He had 8 in 10.5 games. 

[BBFL]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

He was on pace last season for 13 sacks. He had 8 in 10.5 games. 

Opening week @ LA, he balled out. Same as KC. That doesn’t change the fact he’s on a decline and non existent right now for a guy you are paying almost 8% of the salary cap to.