I Got It - Why We Aren’t as Good as Them

[Livinginthepast]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Jesus Christ plays for the Fins?  

 

No wonder they're leading the AFC in points scored and will win the division.  

 

Otherwise, none of it could possibly have to do with a "defensive-minded" yet offensively strategically bereft coach that was once the only person in the world that truly believed that Nathan Peterman would give the team the best chances of winning, right?  

 

 

Even though it was early in his tenure, the Peterman game was probably the moment that defined or exposed McD as not being HC material. It was McD who made the call to bench his flawed but reasonably competent QB TT for an unproven rookie because he seemed to value his character traits over his ability as an NFL QB. He somehow went with the idea that he should start a guy because he was a man of faith rather than go with the better option. Which unsurprisingly led to one of the worst QB performances in history.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I said it over and over that Allen should have started day one or been at worst groomed by a seasoned vet (i.e. like Fitz).  The worst was seeing McD doubling down on Peterman.

 

At the end of the day, McDoesn'tKnow has pawned off all kinds of stuff onto his staff.  

 

That Peterman move, even amongst his own staff, was not endorsed by anyone but him.  

 

Everything else he's explained away by muttering "Trust The Process."  

 

He's his own worst enemy and that will continue to play out as long as he's here, unless he gives up a good amount of control of both sides of the ball to others, but it's not very likely that his prized former all-mediocre Carolina staff has anyone on it that is capable of doing that to the extents necessary.  ... Brady pending given the unknowns there, but they are unknowns.  Two games in hype mode is hardly a pattern there.  So we'll see, we're all hopeful.  

 

Even if he finds those people, his game management skills, which are key HC traits for championship coaches, are notably subpar.  

 

Any time that you draft a QB 7th overall in trade-up fashion, you start him, unless it's detrimental to him, which it wasn't.  

 

Let's not forget that fan and media heat was already beginning to mount, which means that McD was already, or likely was focusing on saving his bacon.  After our 2019 season there was already a growing sentiment that McDoesn'tKnow wasn't right for the job.  

 

It was only after Allen took off, which I attribute to Allen and his comfort with the level of play in the NFL along with his attitude, that things began to change.  

 

So it was the play of our QB that saved McDoesen'tKnow.  So how is it that given what we know about him and his offensive "prowess" there, coupled with his own statements as to not having a clue in essence, that he's the one responsible for how good this team has been since then?  

 

From him we get "Process," "winning culture," as if winning games as a direct result of QB play is going to create a losing culture or even an apathetic culture somewhere, other ill-defined soft accolades that don't translate to anything concrete in the winning dept., and nothing but galactically stupid game-day decision-making, horrible use of timeouts at time, strategies from the '90s, and other things that have actually prevented us from reaching the ultimate prize after the players sealed it, most notably "13 Seconds," which in and of itself clawed defeat from the throne of victory. 

 

Why any of that is going to change after nearly a decade remains an unsolveable mystery.  

 

 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

The Bills running back room is fine.  As long as play-caller does a decent job of mixing it into the attack, the guys we got can be dangerous and effective.

 

But I do agree that a pass-heavy team SHOULD be loaded at the WR position.  Just as Dalton Kincaid starts emerging, it seems as though Stefon Diggs is declining.  And the other guys are just solid at best.  We do more...

 

Before the last offseason, I feel like Brandon Beane's strategy has been to dedicate more resources to the Defense and hope that Josh Allen can elevate the guys on the other side of the ball.  Unfortunately it was a really bad year to upgrade passing attacks.  Free agency was really bare in the WR department, and all the good WR prospects were gone by our pick.  Kincaid was a good consolation prize.  The bright side is this upcoming draft class should be loaded at that position.

 

Beane is essentially McD.  His primary responsibility is to work the personnel side on behalf of the roster priorities of the HC.  And the past few off-seasons he either told McD the UFA priorities and draft needed to shift toward offense and was overruled or he didn't do it at all...we'll never know.

 

The football people making decisions lack aggressiveness to make their own way.  Most of the time it's acceptable to be cautious, but there's a time to create an opportunity and not just wait for one.  It's funny because there's an organizational trend to be risk-averse not only in personnel acquisition, but to play things safe in-game.

 

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Even though it was early in his tenure, the Peterman game was probably the moment that defined or exposed McD as not being HC material. It was McD who made the call to bench his flawed but reasonably competent QB TT for an unproven rookie because he seemed to value his character traits over his ability as an NFL QB. He somehow went with the idea that he should start a guy because he was a man of faith rather than go with the better option. Which unsurprisingly led to one of the worst QB performances in history.

 

Some are going to jump on you for saying that, but that's tremendously on point!  

 

McD's priorities, in varying ways, not least of all in coaching loyalties and his propensity for nepotism are not properly aligned to be a head coach for a championship caliber team.  

 

How much longer does that need to play out that way before Pegula has a clue.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Beane is essentially McD.  His primary responsibility is to work the personnel side on behalf of the roster priorities of the HC.  And the past few off-seasons he either told McD the UFA priorities and draft needed to shift toward offense and was overruled or he didn't do it at all...we'll never know.

 

I do think that we'll start finding some things out once McD is gone.  

 

Stuff always trickles out once someone is fired for incompetence and mismanagement.  

 

Not to mention, some may want to leak things in favor of their own careers.  If someone is fired for a decision that they didn't make, it's one thing to "take one for the team" while employed, but once fired, the gloves are off.  

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

At the end of the day, McDoesn'tKnow has pawned off all kinds of stuff onto his staff.  

 

That Peterman move, even amongst his own staff, was not endorsed by anyone but him.  

 

Everything else he's explained away by muttering "Trust The Process."  

 

He's his own worst enemy and that will continue to play out as long as he's here, unless he gives up a good amount of control of both sides of the ball to others, but it's not very likely that his prized former all-mediocre Carolina staff has anyone on it that is capable of doing that to the extents necessary.  ... Brady pending given the unknowns there, but they are unknowns.  Two games in hype mode is hardly a pattern there.  So we'll see, we're all hopeful.  

 

Even if he finds those people, his game management skills, which are key HC traits for championship coaches, are notably subpar.  

 

Any time that you draft a QB 7th overall in trade-up fashion, you start him, unless it's detrimental to him, which it wasn't.  

 

Let's not forget that fan and media heat was already beginning to mount, which means that McD was already, or likely was focusing on saving his bacon.  After our 2019 season there was already a growing sentiment that McDoesn'tKnow wasn't right for the job.  

 

It was only after Allen took off, which I attribute to Allen and his comfort with the level of play in the NFL along with his attitude, that things began to change.  

 

So it was the play of our QB that saved McDoesen'tKnow.  So how is it that given what we know about him and his offensive "prowess" there, coupled with his own statements as to not having a clue in essence, that he's the one responsible for how good this team has been since then?  

 

From him we get "Process," "winning culture," as if winning games as a direct result of QB play is going to create a losing culture or even an apathetic culture somewhere, other ill-defined soft accolades that don't translate to anything concrete in the winning dept., and nothing but galactically stupid game-day decision-making, horrible use of timeouts at time, strategies from the '90s, and other things that have actually prevented us from reaching the ultimate prize after the players sealed it, most notably "13 Seconds," which in and of itself clawed defeat from the throne of victory. 

 

Why any of that is going to change after nearly a decade remains an unsolveable mystery.  

 

 

And don't forget that somehow McD took the #16 Offence in 2016 to one of the bottom feeders his first three years and went his first 48 games without having a qb throw for 300 yards, which in the modern era is a record that will never be touched.  Tells you again what he thinks of the Offense.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Low Positive said:

The reason that this happened is that the Bills never got the grace period of having a star QB on a rookie deal. Burrow was a star from the moment that he stepped on an NFL field, and then he had the good fortune of getting hurt so that the Bengals could draft 7th and get  Chase. Now they’ve had this run, and they waited to pay Burrow until after his 4th year. Same with Mahomes, but the chickens of that contract are coming home to roost with the lack of pass catchers. With Josh, by the time he was playing at a high level it was time to pay him. That is why I want to start drafting NFL ready college stars instead of projects with traits. Take the best player from Alabama or Georgia that you can get. They’re ready to contribute now and they know how to win.

I don't know about this.  First we've just started to pay Allen. Back in 2020 & 21 we weren't paying him squat.  Maybe if the Bills had focused on the offense and not the defense we would have a SB trophy or two.  You know use that #9 pick in 2019 (or move up or down) on an offensive player.  Move up and they could have snatched Hockinson for example. And then instead of signing Miller in 2022 they sign the best FA WR, RB or O lineman available. 

 

And last I looked Allen is now the 10th highest paid QB soon to drop out of the top ten. The Bills should be approaching a 2nd sweet spot where an elite Allen is underpaid retaliative to the other elite franchise QB's.  Are we ready to take advantage of that moment? Or will Pegula keep McD & Bean and use our mid round 1st round pick on a corner back or safety?

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And don't forget that somehow McD took the #16 Offence in 2016 to one of the bottom feeders his first three years and went his first 48 games without having a qb throw for 300 yards, which in the modern era is a record that will never be touched.  Tells you again what he thinks of the Offense.  

 

It's obvious to anyone that has their eyes open and is being objective.  

 

Any unsubstantiated narratives, which is most of them, to the contrary are quickly falling by the wayside.  

 

And let's suppose for a second that we do manage to go 4-1 or 5-0 and slink into the playoffs as the 7th seed, maybe 6th, what on earth are the odds that we can win four straight games with him at the helm against a field of coaches that all but categorically if not categorically are better than he is.  The only way would be on the strength of talent, and we don't have enough edge to overcome that for 8 or 9 straight games.  

 

 

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

The Bills haven’t gotten over the hump because they don’t have the compliment of good/great players at the skilled positions. PERIOD.

 

The Most successful team, KC, has superstar/superstar, ex superstar (Hill), good backs and wr depth. Sick of talking about them, but they haven’t replaced Hill yet and now it’s really showing. They did the complete obvious with Kelce two years ago and for some reason the league just never caught up and it was too late by the time the Chiefs were holding the Lombardi. Genius.

 

Cincinnati. Great quarterback, superstar WR, great WR, good WR, B+ three down runningback, always effective RB depth. These players CARRY this team. No other position group on this team is special, except their kicker.
 

Jacksonville. Same thing as Cincy, Except they are soooo fast. RB is A great and three down, I don’t think Lawrence has completely adjusted to Ridley’s speed yet, and that’s why there have been struggles. But Calvin Ridley is a different looking speed beast. Kirk and Jones are a pretty good 2/3 as a combo. And Engram is looking mighty big and athletic. This offense is ridiculous. And I just love Peterson. He is always calling good games, and seems super into the game, invested in outcomes, and hyper focused. JA41 is a star now. 
 

Dolphins. Jesus Christ. It really is a track meet out there. Good QB / superstar WR / great WR / soon to be superstar RB, significant RB depth. Play calling off the charts. 
 

These are the AFC teams that are better than the Bills, and the player personal why. They all have practically identical defensive talent, with the except for your Chris Jones guys, an emerging JA41. The NFC has the best defenses at the top by far. 

The Chargers should be there with their skilled players (because THATS WHAT WINS IN THIS LEAGUE), but they are the Super Chargers.
 

Of course, Baltimore. Their offense are a gadget team with unique players that move in weird ways, and they always have a bruiser back running downhill. Andrews deserves a mention. Baltimores backbone is defense and equally special teams. They are always good and great year after year. 
 

Now the Bills. The only team they are above at skilled positions is the Ravens. This is why we feel good about beating the Ravens, and predictably unsure against any of the other teams in the playoffs.

 

The best Bills team of this run was 2021, and everybody just assumes that the alter story after we win 13 seconds is jumping right to the forecast that we match up well against the Rams…! I love the positive mindset but we cannot just chalk up an auto-win @ the Bengals in the make believe 2021 AFCCG. That’s just silly. After that win at Arrowhead, the Chiefs were spent, and they got to play at home. Logic would suggest the Bills would be more spent if they’d won 13 seconds.
 

So my point is, I think, the Bills are never going to beat these teams in the playoffs. Period. That is all. Unless they upgrade WR2, WR4, RB1/2/3, TE2..the guy is never healthy. 
 

Good to great skilled positions can work with C+ graded offensive lines (which any serious contender considers the floor), and a defense that can play good defense.. not great or anything, just top half of the league, with no glaring weaknesses, like a C grade position group. 
 

Since the Bills can actually fill in a roster of C+ or better position groups team wide, and have flashed special teams hahaha,  they must upgrade the skilled positions to B+/great/superstar. Only way they will win it all in the JA17 era. 

I see a lot of people dismissing your thread, but this is largely spot on.

 

Chris Simms biggest criticism of the Bills offense was that it was Allen to Diggs or nothing.  That was certainly the case last season and it’s been the case for most of the year until recently.  
 

Throughout the course of the season, it seems like someone always let the team down when the needed a big play.  If it wasn’t Allen or Diggs, no one really stepped up.  

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's obvious to anyone that has their eyes open and is being objective.  

 

Any unsubstantiated narratives, which is most of them, to the contrary are quickly falling by the wayside.  

 

And let's suppose for a second that we do manage to go 4-1 or 5-0 and slink into the playoffs as the 7th seed, maybe 6th, what on earth are the odds that we can win four straight games with him at the helm against a field of coaches that all but categorically if not categorically are better than he is.  The only way would be on the strength of talent, and we don't have enough edge to overcome that for 8 or 9 straight games.  

 

 

Because I'm a Bills fan and regardless of all his deficiencies and blunders, I want the Bills to win the SB.

 

Now you can go through my 4000+ posts and not once have I said the Bills can't win a SB with McD.   I think they can in spite of him.😜

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because I'm a Bills fan and regardless of all his deficiencies and blunders, I want the Bills to win the SB.

 

We all do.  I'm sure that Buffalo would be a nuthouse for days if we won one!  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Now you can go through my 4000+ posts and not once have I said the Bills can't win a SB with McD.   I think they can in spite of him.😜

 

Never meant to insinuate that you did.   

 

I don't disagree when you say can, but the reality is that it wouldn't be due to proper coaching in any likelihood, and particularly not for four straight games.  

 

For those on the side of "who's better," that doesn't really matter, pretty much any coach that isn't a complete dunderhead we could say the same for.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because I'm a Bills fan and regardless of all his deficiencies and blunders, I want the Bills to win the SB.

 

And hell, for all the flak I direct at McDoesn'tKnow's way, if we won one on his watch, I'd put a bust of his on my family room shelf.  

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

What no mention of McD???? Really?  He's the #1 reason the Bills are where they are.

 

Actually, I mentioned 'coaching mistakes' but I guess I could have named him.  

And as I've said elsewhere, McD is the head coach.  Josh's mistakes are his mistakes.  Dorsey's mistakes are his mistakes.  Any mistake by a player or subordinate coach goes back to McD.  

 

So, to boil it down, there are two main culprits in this year's story: Beane for not building a better roster and McD for not doing more with it.  

 

But I also acknowledge the fact that the Bills have been better under Beane/McD than they've been under other GM/HC combos.  Still, this has not been a good year and they both need to share the blame.   

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

But I also acknowledge the fact that the Bills have been better under Beane/McD than they've been under other GM/HC combos.  Still, this has not been a good year and they both need to share the blame.   

 

Quote

But I also acknowledge the fact that the Bills have been better under Beane/McD Allen than they've been under other GM/HC combos QBs.  Still, this has not been a good year and they both need to share the blame.   

 

Which makes more sense in terms of assigning success to one or the other?  

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by PBF81

[Billsfan1972]

37 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Actually, I mentioned 'coaching mistakes' but I guess I could have named him.  

And as I've said elsewhere, McD is the head coach.  Josh's mistakes are his mistakes.  Dorsey's mistakes are his mistakes.  Any mistake by a player or subordinate coach goes back to McD.  

 

So, to boil it down, there are two main culprits in this year's story: Beane for not building a better roster and McD for not doing more with it.  

 

But I also acknowledge the fact that the Bills have been better under Beane/McD than they've been under other GM/HC combos.  Still, this has not been a good year and they both need to share the blame.   

Yes Allen's mistakes maybe primarily on him, but not always.  When sitting on the sidelines for 7 minutes, and watching third downs converted and a score, then back on the field and calls you aren't 100% on board with, maybe you're pressing?  A wrong route, bad call, told not to run and stay in the pocket.....

 

Beane making trades, signings or draft choice based on the HC's wishes?

 

Dorsey didn't review or discuss the game plan with McD?  Complementary football I read as "let the D rest and keep them off the field".  Vs. Cincy they carved them up the first drive and instead of the quick paced O, slowed down and then went 3 & out.  The D was gassed allowing 14 points the first two Cincy drives and McD wanted rest for them. Pretty sure McD said something to that affect.

 

The team is better due to Allen.  I'll die on that hill.🤣

 

 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

that said the Bills can beat anyone in the AFC if they come out motivated, because they can also lose to anyone in the AFC when they are not motivated. 

They were motivated to beat the Eagles. It’s not just about motivation. That’s ridiculous. 

[John from Riverside]

11 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

The Bills haven’t gotten over the hump because they don’t have the compliment of good/great players at the skilled positions. PERIOD.

 

The Most successful team, KC, has superstar/superstar, ex superstar (Hill), good backs and wr depth. Sick of talking about them, but they haven’t replaced Hill yet and now it’s really showing. They did the complete obvious with Kelce two years ago and for some reason the league just never caught up and it was too late by the time the Chiefs were holding the Lombardi. Genius.

 

Cincinnati. Great quarterback, superstar WR, great WR, good WR, B+ three down runningback, always effective RB depth. These players CARRY this team. No other position group on this team is special, except their kicker.
 

Jacksonville. Same thing as Cincy, Except they are soooo fast. RB is A great and three down, I don’t think Lawrence has completely adjusted to Ridley’s speed yet, and that’s why there have been struggles. But Calvin Ridley is a different looking speed beast. Kirk and Jones are a pretty good 2/3 as a combo. And Engram is looking mighty big and athletic. This offense is ridiculous. And I just love Peterson. He is always calling good games, and seems super into the game, invested in outcomes, and hyper focused. JA41 is a star now. 
 

Dolphins. Jesus Christ. It really is a track meet out there. Good QB / superstar WR / great WR / soon to be superstar RB, significant RB depth. Play calling off the charts. 
 

These are the AFC teams that are better than the Bills, and the player personal why. They all have practically identical defensive talent, with the except for your Chris Jones guys, an emerging JA41. The NFC has the best defenses at the top by far. 

The Chargers should be there with their skilled players (because THATS WHAT WINS IN THIS LEAGUE), but they are the Super Chargers.
 

Of course, Baltimore. Their offense are a gadget team with unique players that move in weird ways, and they always have a bruiser back running downhill. Andrews deserves a mention. Baltimores backbone is defense and equally special teams. They are always good and great year after year. 
 

Now the Bills. The only team they are above at skilled positions is the Ravens. This is why we feel good about beating the Ravens, and predictably unsure against any of the other teams in the playoffs.

 

The best Bills team of this run was 2021, and everybody just assumes that the alter story after we win 13 seconds is jumping right to the forecast that we match up well against the Rams…! I love the positive mindset but we cannot just chalk up an auto-win @ the Bengals in the make believe 2021 AFCCG. That’s just silly. After that win at Arrowhead, the Chiefs were spent, and they got to play at home. Logic would suggest the Bills would be more spent if they’d won 13 seconds.
 

So my point is, I think, the Bills are never going to beat these teams in the playoffs. Period. That is all. Unless they upgrade WR2, WR4, RB1/2/3, TE2..the guy is never healthy. 
 

Good to great skilled positions can work with C+ graded offensive lines (which any serious contender considers the floor), and a defense that can play good defense.. not great or anything, just top half of the league, with no glaring weaknesses, like a C grade position group. 
 

Since the Bills can actually fill in a roster of C+ or better position groups team wide, and have flashed special teams hahaha,  they must upgrade the skilled positions to B+/great/superstar. Only way they will win it all in the JA17 era. 

Is this a bad time to find out we waxed the dolphins

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

"They" is the coaches.

 

One of the Eagles said about the Bills D in OT,  "we couldn't believe the defense were in. When I saw that I knew we had a TD." Tells you something about McD's defense in crunch time.

Players are not exempt from this analysis. ALL the players. 

[LarryMadman]

14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes Allen's mistakes maybe primarily on him, but not always.  When sitting on the sidelines for 7 minutes, and watching third downs converted and a score, then back on the field and calls you aren't 100% on board with, maybe you're pressing?  A wrong route, bad call, told not to run and stay in the pocket.....

 

Beane making trades, signings or draft choice based on the HC's wishes?

 

Dorsey didn't review or discuss the game plan with McD?  Complementary football I read as "let the D rest and keep them off the field".  Vs. Cincy they carved them up the first drive and instead of the quick paced O, slowed down and then went 3 & out.  The D was gassed allowing 14 points the first two Cincy drives and McD wanted rest for them. Pretty sure McD said something to that affect.

 

The team is better due to Allen.  I'll die on that hill.🤣

 

 

Yup, this teams problem is coaching, too many receipts of bad coaching to ignore and blame something else.

 

Fix the coaching and the problems get fixed........hmmmmm........kind of like the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, not so much as there is still a common denominator.

[Thrivefourfive]

5 hours ago, gjv said:

Should we take your post to mean that Beane's inability to build an Offense with more superstars is the reason the Bills fall short every year?

I think he hasn’t had enough draft picks and $$ on offense. McD and his playoff and big game bust if a defense gets most of the cookies.

 

Beane isn’t the problem. The way he moved up and up to get Allen, then Edmunds was masterful. He needs the green light to go get blue chipper RBs and WRs now. This is the Bills best chance at getting over the hump.

[1bufwarfan]

6 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

THIS.

Compare to how Green Bay defended Mahomes with the game on the line.

 

Safeties were back, but CBs were right up on the receivers! Pressing. And it worked.

 

I do not understand how McDermott does not see this!! Instead he plays off and gets shredded, and calls blitzes at the worst times.

Yes, playing off the receivers ,As they played in the 13 seconds game..

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, BBFL said:

He said “farming back!”. Was a tough period for Melons right before that game…

 

 

 

Oh, I'm DEFINITELY stealing this

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, LarryMadman said:

Yup, this teams problem is coaching, too many receipts of bad coaching to ignore and blame something else.

 

Fix the coaching and the problems get fixed........hmmmmm........kind of like the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, not so much as there is still a common denominator.

Just this year needed to turn around 1 game where the coaching failed them.  Let's choose the simplest 12 men.  How is not McD and the coaching 100% to blame!!!!!  The Bills are 7-5 and some wiggle room. 

 

Now others will say 50/50 hindsight at the plethora of other examples, but again, do one thing right.  There, I'll go for more low-hanging fruit....  Don't let Mac Jones drive 75 yards for a TD.

 

8-4 and battling for the #1 seed.

 

Name me one good call McD made this year that was the difference between a win and a loss?   

  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Complete nonsense.

 

The Bills don't have a great record because they had an incompetent offensive coordinator who didn't know even the basics of preparing an offense or game plan.  THAT is definitely on McDermott and Bean--a series of specific questions in the interview process would have eliminated Dorsey immediately, as he was simply ignorant of so many aspects of the job he was just given. And, yes, once this became apparent, obvious, it took much much too long for them to cut their losses--hence, the losses..

 

But doesn't the Bills dramatic, over night turn around to one of the best, most productive offenses in the NFL IMMEDIATELY after Brady took over help you to understand this fact? 

 

Josh Allen's comment, with the first game of the new season not even finished yet, that he was "f*****g back", should have opened your eyes, but apparently it did not.  The problem in Buffalo was not a lack of talent, though of course more and better are always needed going forward to stay relevant.

 

The Bills became a balanced, creative, dynamic and extremely productive offense in less than a week after Dorsey was fired, showing plenty of talent, enough to compete with anyone in this league.  That turn around was not a coincidence.

 

I 100% agree that Brady is a revelation and we would probably be coasting into the playoffs if Dorsey was fired after the Giants game.

 

BUT even with our offense performing very well against the Eagles, and Allen having one of the best performances of his career, that still wasn't enough for our head coach and our talent to beat a true championship contender. We even caught them napping in the 1st half so the circumstances in that game were about as favorable as possible for us, and that still wasn't enough.

 

So have we just accepted that under this regime the best we can do is lose a close game to a championship contender? We now have the great OC (at least based on early returns). If that doesn't get us over the hump, changes have to come elsewhere.

[Mister Defense]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I 100% agree that Brady is a revelation and we would probably be coasting into the playoffs if Dorsey was fired after the Giants game.

 

BUT even with our offense performing very well against the Eagles, and Allen having one of the best performances of his career, that still wasn't enough for our head coach and our talent to beat a true championship contender. We even caught them napping in the 1st half so the circumstances in that game were about as favorable as possible for us, and that still wasn't enough.

 

So have we just accepted that under this regime the best we can do is lose a close game to a championship contender? We now have the great OC (at least based on early returns). If that doesn't get us over the hump, changes have to come elsewhere.

 

I think this entire season was thrown for a loop because of the Dorsey factor.  I feel that the Bills would likely be at the top of the AFC standings, despite their injuries if Dorsey was not part of this team this year.

 

The Bills, all teams, will lose games.  A game like the Eagles may have been one of those games. But this was an offense that was not allowed to properly develop this year, in no way is hitting on all cylinders, despite playing very well since the firing.  For example, just look at one aspect of the offense, his negligent use of the running backs both in the run and pass game.  The running backs catching many passes!?  It was one of many things not happening until Brady.  How much sharper would the backs be in the passing game if they had been doing this since last year, and not over night?  Would Cook be more experienced catching balls? Of course he would have been.  And maybe he catches that ball early in the game.  Etcetera etcetera.

 

Sooo difficult to evaluate things because of the gross incompetence. The fish rots from the head and everything was not as it really was, as it could have been.

 

Too bad, as with a weak AFC I think the Bills would have roller skated into the playoffs--and likely with the #1 seed.

 

Now, it is a very tough road, with no room for error, another huge obstacle created by Dorsey. The Bills should sue him for malpractice. In my view they will have a slew of very high level offensive performances still to come this year. 

 

 

[Governor]

I mostly agree. I don’t see us beating JAX or Cincy in the McD era. They just have him totally figured out. But that could all change if we fire him!

 

Last season felt like the game had passed McD by similar to Rex Ryan’s defense. McD coaches like a 75 year old man on his way out.

 

ill add that OC’s are rarely, if ever, the sole reason a team is losing games. It’s just an excuse fans use when things aren’t going well. Fire the OC!

 

We’re 6-6 and we only beat the Jets. There’s no proof that were any better after firing Dorsey. We still stink. We’re still losing games. If we lose this week, everyone’s new impression on the OC does a 180.

 

Can anyone name 3 teams in the last 50 years that struggled early, fired their OC, and went on to win a SB?

Edited December 6, 2023 by Governor

[Mister Defense]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:46 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

The problem is that if Dorsey had better talent on offense, he'd probably still be employed. Better talent on offense probably would have won the Jets/Broncos/Patriots games. Dorsey's problem was that he couldn't do more with less. 

 

 

Really/

 

umm, why did they look dramatically better on offense just five days later?

 

And then continued to be a dramatically more consistent,  productive and dangerous offense over the last few weeks, while looking dead in the water before that?

 

Why do they look so much more talented now, with the same talent, if you are correct?

 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:45 AM, Thrivefourfive said:

The Bills haven’t gotten over the hump because they don’t have the compliment of good/great players at the skilled positions. PERIOD.

 

The Most successful team, KC, has superstar/superstar, ex superstar (Hill), good backs and wr depth. Sick of talking about them, but they haven’t replaced Hill yet and now it’s really showing. They did the complete obvious with Kelce two years ago and for some reason the league just never caught up and it was too late by the time the Chiefs were holding the Lombardi. Genius.

 

Cincinnati. Great quarterback, superstar WR, great WR, good WR, B+ three down runningback, always effective RB depth. These players CARRY this team. No other position group on this team is special, except their kicker.
 

Jacksonville. Same thing as Cincy, Except they are soooo fast. RB is A great and three down, I don’t think Lawrence has completely adjusted to Ridley’s speed yet, and that’s why there have been struggles. But Calvin Ridley is a different looking speed beast. Kirk and Jones are a pretty good 2/3 as a combo. And Engram is looking mighty big and athletic. This offense is ridiculous. And I just love Peterson. He is always calling good games, and seems super into the game, invested in outcomes, and hyper focused. JA41 is a star now. 
 

Dolphins. Jesus Christ. It really is a track meet out there. Good QB / superstar WR / great WR / soon to be superstar RB, significant RB depth. Play calling off the charts. 
 

These are the AFC teams that are better than the Bills, and the player personal why. They all have practically identical defensive talent, with the except for your Chris Jones guys, an emerging JA41. The NFC has the best defenses at the top by far. 

The Chargers should be there with their skilled players (because THATS WHAT WINS IN THIS LEAGUE), but they are the Super Chargers.
 

Of course, Baltimore. Their offense are a gadget team with unique players that move in weird ways, and they always have a bruiser back running downhill. Andrews deserves a mention. Baltimores backbone is defense and equally special teams. They are always good and great year after year. 
 

Now the Bills. The only team they are above at skilled positions is the Ravens. This is why we feel good about beating the Ravens, and predictably unsure against any of the other teams in the playoffs.

 

The best Bills team of this run was 2021, and everybody just assumes that the alter story after we win 13 seconds is jumping right to the forecast that we match up well against the Rams…! I love the positive mindset but we cannot just chalk up an auto-win @ the Bengals in the make believe 2021 AFCCG. That’s just silly. After that win at Arrowhead, the Chiefs were spent, and they got to play at home. Logic would suggest the Bills would be more spent if they’d won 13 seconds.
 

So my point is, I think, the Bills are never going to beat these teams in the playoffs. Period. That is all. Unless they upgrade WR2, WR4, RB1/2/3, TE2..the guy is never healthy. 
 

Good to great skilled positions can work with C+ graded offensive lines (which any serious contender considers the floor), and a defense that can play good defense.. not great or anything, just top half of the league, with no glaring weaknesses, like a C grade position group. 
 

Since the Bills can actually fill in a roster of C+ or better position groups team wide, and have flashed special teams hahaha,  they must upgrade the skilled positions to B+/great/superstar. Only way they will win it all in the JA17 era. 

 

James Cook is equal to their best Back. Kelce and Diggs are a wash in my opinion. Josh and Mahomes are a wash or pretty close.

 

Who else do they have Offensively that has them having more firepower than us? I see it as at least dead even, honestly. If not us having the advantage with Kincaid and Knox with similar roleplayers elsewhere.

Edited December 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Thrivefourfive]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

James Cook is equal to their best Back. Kelce and Diggs are a wash in my opinion. Josh and Mahomes are a wash or pretty close.

 

Who else do they have Offensively that has them having more firepower than us? I see it as at least dead even, honestly. If not us having the advantage with Kincaid and Knox with similar roleplayers elsewhere.

Kansas City has a better quarterback and better WR (TE). Value for value, Kelce is so much higher than Diggs. Kelce is the best TE, and Diggs is just a top ten WR. If we put together Diggs and Kincaid, then that’s a better combo than Kelce and whoever the Chiefs think is their WR1.
 

I like Cook, and I think he’s slightly better than Pacheco overall. CEH is pointless, but McKinnon is better than our RB2->

 

I think the Bills have been and still are a tick below the Chiefs skilled player for skilled player. Just my opinion. Even though the Chiefs have been bad on offense since November.
 

The Chiefs just have leaps and bounds better coaching. In a vacuum, Diggs and Kelce might be even, but on their respective teams, Kelce is used to the max, and the Bills barely know how to get Diggs going outside of a stop, an out, or a screen route. 

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

 

Really/

 

umm, why did they look dramatically better on offense just five days later?

 

And then continued to be a dramatically more consistent,  productive and dangerous offense over the last few weeks, while looking dead in the water before that?

 

Why do they look so much more talented now, with the same talent, if you are correct?

 

 

I'm saying that Brady is able to do more with less. Dorsey couldn't

[T master]

It's awful funny how the Bills usually shut down Hill when they play the Fins, then how many players were the Bills down last year in the game against the Begals ? 

 

This team if they play to their capabilities of the talent they have they can beat any one of these teams it's just playing a full game . At the beginning f the season we saw them play to that potential and of late have been playing closer to that but haven't been consistent enough putting it together this season .

 

The O line is playing better this year & the RB room is much better that should be pretty apparent WR is one they are trying to get figured out which if they could have gotten a player like D Hop that would have helped immensely but the players they have are capable they just come up short .

 

Even team has things they can do better hell the Titans beat the Fins so that proves your ultimate team players can still be beat by a team that may not be as good as you say they are and pretty much any given sunday they can lose as long as certain things go your way ...

[hondo in seattle]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:11 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Just this year needed to turn around 1 game where the coaching failed them.  Let's choose the simplest 12 men.  How is not McD and the coaching 100% to blame!!!!!  The Bills are 7-5 and some wiggle room. 

 

Now others will say 50/50 hindsight at the plethora of other examples, but again, do one thing right.  There, I'll go for more low-hanging fruit....  Don't let Mac Jones drive 75 yards for a TD.

 

8-4 and battling for the #1 seed.

 

Name me one good call McD made this year that was the difference between a win and a loss?   

  

 

I wouldn't argue against the idea that McD is underperforming this year.

 

But trying to reduce coaching to one call is silly.  Over McD's tenure with the Bills, we've won a lot of games because of the teamwork, culture, and coaching staff he's built.  And let's not forget The Process - his methodical way of preparing for games.