Change of plans. Biden is building a wall.

[daz28]

23 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Based on your inserting Trump into a discussion of democrat entities contradicting each other, I will make the assumption that even though you want to position yourself above the fray, you are not nonpartisan after all. My mistake. Silly me. 

It was more me inserting the nonsense he says to lead the blind, than an attack on him.  In reality the guy probably says at least half the stuff he says just to please them. 

 

Partisan-a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person.           I'd argue that not being a strong supporter of a person would most certainly make me non-partisan.  If I were defending Biden, Democrats or Myorkas, based on blind faith, that would be partisan.  I made my personal points very clear.  

[Buffarukus]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

It would smarter to propose actual solutions that would actually improve the situation and when the GOP inevitably rejects them, campaign on that. 
 

This is just lazy, dumb, and wasteful. 

 

When exactly do dems do that?

 

Dismantle and Defund police instead of sensible reforms we agree on. Nope

 

Shut down the economy. villianize people that are GIVING sensible alternatives to virus response. Claim it was the only way.

 

Open floodgates on immigrants with 5 star hotels instead of offering sensible immigration reform for LEGAL immigration.

 

Its a bit too late for republican or anyone to be on the side we should make it easier when democrars in "sanctuaries" are pleading they can take no more. 

 

Start alternative leagues for trans and offer comprehensive education on this mental health issue without cutting parents out. Forcing it down throats and believing everyone who say they suffering INCLUDING small children and criminals. Naaaaa. 

 

So basically.

Have insane response to issue.

Villianize everyone who disagrees as the worst people on earth.

Recognize far to late disastrous effects.

Backpedal and minimize how insane it was.

Inhale copium on how effects were not do to insane response.

 

Repeat. 

 

Over and over. 

 

How insane would things have gone if NOONE...aka racist MAGA terrorists fought against them. 

 

Something to think about.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Buffarukus

[Coffeesforclosers]

But what if Biden builds the wall and actually works?

 

 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

In the last few minutes you have told us the GOP definitely doesn’t want it solved, democrats would vote to solve it, the GOP owns the issue, and that democrats are scared by that. Sounds like Washington. 

 

1. The GOP doesn’t want to solve it. A broken immigration system is an electoral benefit for them

 

2. The Dems are mixed on the issue. There isn’t enough of a consensus to agree on comprehensive reform that would win support of the entire caucus 

 

3. If a bill was on the floor that would do a ton to rectify the issue, it would be very popular with the Dems (though unlikely to be unanimous) and would receive little to no support from the GOP. 

 

4. GOP lying and scaremongering works. Dems are scared to propose rational solutions because the GOP will effectively hit them for being “soft.” Scaring people about “the other” is GOP 101 and they do it because it works. 

 

This is a good example of how things are broken in DC. There is little incentive to even try to fix this issue. 

4 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

But what if Biden builds the wall and actually works?

 

 

About as likely as flipping a coin 100 times and it landing on its edge every time. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

About as likely as flipping a coin 100 times and it landing on its edge every time. 

 

Oh no doubt...but it seems like this move actually succeeding is the last thing anybody of any political persuasion expects.  So it's strange to see agreement on a major political issue, and a little funny.

[JDHillFan]

10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Scaring people about “the other” is GOP 101

Right. They’ve got a monopoly on this one! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦

[aristocrat]

Is aoc gonna dress in all white for the photo op again? 

[T master]

6 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:

It's so ironic after the msm and left called any talk of the wall, racist for years.  Even ran on tearing it down. 

 

But then the sanctuary city folks ended up sounding exactly like the voices in the border states. 

 

Is Biden now a racist for building a wall?

 

Oh No now he will be lauded as a great president for making this decision even though it's millions of illegal immigrants to late & 3 yrs into his presidency but there are a couple here that will hold him up as a great leader .

 

WHAT EVER !! 

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Is aoc gonna dress in all white for the photo op again? 

If she did, she look good. Damn good doing it.

7 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Oh No now he will be lauded as a great president for making this decision even though it's millions of illegal immigrants to late & 3 yrs into his presidency but there are a couple here that will hold him up as a great leader .

 

WHAT EVER !! 

Again, I say Donald Trump is not the first person to put up a wall around the United States. There was wall already there.

[ChiGoose]

23 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Right. They’ve got a monopoly on this one! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦

They don’t, but they are certainly the best at it by a mile. 

[T master]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

trump had 4 years and an R congress and did nothing except waste money on a wall that mexico was supposed to pay for.🤣.  That was politics as well.  The fact is that we need low skill, low wage, no questions asked labor.  No one will say it out loud.  We could definitely provide that in a better way.

 

At least he was building the wall even though it didn't work out the way he wanted it to, to make Mexico pay for it . Then he went to Mexican leaders & told them that it was in part their problem too & let them know if they didn't help in some way that he would be the bad guy (which ya'll love) by cutting the amount of money that goes to them Like a real leader . But this is doing nothing to you . Oh how soon you twist to forget !! 

 

Then Along came Joe - Old slow Joe - Slow walking Joe - Slow talking Joe - Along came lying promising Joe & opened up the border , stopped any building of the wall & allow a historical record number of multiple MILLIONS to cross the border until they started sending those folks to all the sanctuary cities that agree'd with Joe .

 

Only then to find out just exactly what a burden it really was then when forced to see illegal immigration for what it really was they are all now speaking out of the other side of their mouth .

 

SURPRISE !!  

[T master]

39 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

1. The GOP doesn’t want to solve it. A broken immigration system is an electoral benefit for them

 

2. The Dems are mixed on the issue. There isn’t enough of a consensus to agree on comprehensive reform that would win support of the entire caucus 

 

3. If a bill was on the floor that would do a ton to rectify the issue, it would be very popular with the Dems (though unlikely to be unanimous) and would receive little to no support from the GOP. 

 

4. GOP lying and scaremongering works. Dems are scared to propose rational solutions because the GOP will effectively hit them for being “soft.” Scaring people about “the other” is GOP 101 and they do it because it works. 

 

This is a good example of how things are broken in DC. There is little incentive to even try to fix this issue. 

About as likely as flipping a coin 100 times and it landing on its edge every time. 

 

The immigration problem has been historically compounded since good ole Joe changed all the laws that were in place to allow MILLIONS of immigrants to cross the border & ignore it . There were laws that were working better than wha they are now thanks to Joes 100 or so executive orders in his first days in office .

 

Yes maybe the immigration system is broken but it's more broken under this leadership than it was ! The previous POTUS went to the mexican leaders & held their feet to the fire & told them our problem was in part because of their weakness to let the immigrants cross their country to get to ours & they needed to do something about it .

 

So because Trump told them he would take action if they didn't things changed but Joe just from the beginning told them they were all welcome & repealed laws in place to slow down immigration & flat out ignored the problem . So yah DC & it's leader is definitely broken but you still won't see it for what it is !! 

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If she did, she look good. Damn good doing it.

Again, I say Donald Trump is not the first person to put up a wall around the United States. There was wall already there.

 

But he added to it & had laws implemented that were helping but to this point Joe repealed those laws & just opened it up while ignoring the problem putting his USELESS VP well enough said about that .

[Doc]

2 hours ago, daz28 said:

As I already said, I agree it's appears to be a mixed message.  If you'd like me to say what I would extrapolate from it, then it would be that Biden disagrees with the complete border wall strategy(strategic), and Mayorkas needs a barrier in a certain area(operational).  I'll throw my own personal opinion in for the heck of it.  Long border walls don't work, because ladders, ropes, saw, and shovels exist.  They may however slow the tide if placed and monitored correctly in a limited area.  Donald Trump appeals to a lot of people who can't think critically, and has them believing walls have been effective for thousands of years.  The walls he speaks of were created to funnel armies into gaps for slaughter, not to stop a thief in the night.  It's just campaign BS talk from him to please his base.     

Silly refers to the political game, and we all do silly things sometimes.  We usually are, and should be a bit embarrassed when it's pointing out we're doing something silly.  Try not to take it personal.    

 

If you think that all Trump did was demand a wall, then not thinking critically isn't just reserved for Trump supporters.

 

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

trump had 4 years and an R congress and did nothing except waste money on a wall that mexico was supposed to pay for.🤣.  That was politics as well.  The fact is that we need low skill, low wage, no questions asked labor.  No one will say it out loud.  We could definitely provide that in a better way.

 

True he had an R Congress.  But maybe you didn't know that you need 60 votes in the Senate to pass anything.  You think any Dem was going to vote for a border wall? 

 

And I didn't care who paid for it.  We could have funded it, more border agents and other means of surveillance with all the money we're spending to futilely prevent Russia from invading Ukraine's borders, and not protecting our own.

[daz28]

I got a newsflash for everyone.  Presidents don't make or change laws.  They also can't spend money.  Fox news rots brains.  Biden can no more build a wall than Trump can.  I'll repeat, the money from this 'wall Bidenz building' is from appropriations(from Congress) from 2019 that HAD to legally be spent.  For the most part, the immigration/border issues are issues Congress has to fix(which neither did when they've had the chance).

[John from Riverside]

42 minutes ago, T master said:

 

The immigration problem has been historically compounded since good ole Joe changed all the laws that were in place to allow MILLIONS of immigrants to cross the border & ignore it . There were laws that were working better than wha they are now thanks to Joes 100 or so executive orders in his first days in office .

 

Yes maybe the immigration system is broken but it's more broken under this leadership than it was ! The previous POTUS went to the mexican leaders & held their feet to the fire & told them our problem was in part because of their weakness to let the immigrants cross their country to get to ours & they needed to do something about it .

 

So because Trump told them he would take action if they didn't things changed but Joe just from the beginning told them they were all welcome & repealed laws in place to slow down immigration & flat out ignored the problem . So yah DC & it's leader is definitely broken but you still won't see it for what it is !! 

 

But he added to it & had laws implemented that were helping but to this point Joe repealed those laws & just opened it up while ignoring the problem putting his USELESS VP well enough said about that .

Add to it and didn’t finish it
 

And Covid helped as much as anything

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I got a newsflash for everyone.  Presidents don't make or change laws.  They also can't spend money.  Fox news rots brains.  Biden can no more build a wall than Trump can.  I'll repeat, the money from this 'wall Bidenz building' is from appropriations(from Congress) from 2019 that HAD to legally be spent.  For the most part, the immigration/border issues are issues Congress has to fix(which neither did when they've had the chance).

 

Yes a President is totally helpless.  Turn off CNN.

[daz28]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If you think that all Trump did was demand a wall, then not thinking critically isn't just reserved for Trump supporters.

 

 

I was responding to this quote today, which is BS on both ends, because Biden isn't building a wall, and the walls he's referencing were built to stop armies, not border crossings.      -“As I have stated often, over thousands of years, there are only two things that have consistently worked, wheels, and walls!" Trump wrote on his social media platform. "Will Joe Biden apologize to me and America for taking so long to get moving ... I will await his apology!”

 

-No, that applies to anyone who believes lies, and follows blindly.  He just happens to be very good at targeting those people.  

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yes a President is totally helpless.  Turn off CNN.

For the most part=totally helpless.  OK.  Getting things done almost always requires funds and laws.  The president has neither power.  Does that make it a little easier for you to understand?

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I was responding to this quote today, which is BS on both ends, because Biden isn't building a wall, and the walls he's referencing were built to stop armies, not border crossings.      -“As I have stated often, over thousands of years, there are only two things that have consistently worked, wheels, and walls!" Trump wrote on his social media platform. "Will Joe Biden apologize to me and America for taking so long to get moving ... I will await his apology!”

 

-No, that applies to anyone who believes lies, and follows blindly.  He just happens to be very good at targeting those people.  

 

Huh?  Mayorkas said the wall was needed.  Not for armies but for border crossings.  So you are blindly following Biden then?

[daz28]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Huh?  Mayorkas said the wall was needed.  Not for armies but for border crossings.  So you are blindly following Biden then?

Sometimes Fox leaves thing out, that's why people shouldn't watch them:

“I want to address today’s reporting relating to a border wall and be absolutely clear. There is no new administration policy with respect to border walls," Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement. “From day one, this administration has made clear that a border wall is not the answer. That remains our position and our position has never wavered.”

 

He said a wall was needed in a certain area, not THE wall.  I covered this in an earlier post.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Sometimes Fox leaves thing out, that's why people shouldn't watch them:

“I want to address today’s reporting relating to a border wall and be absolutely clear. There is no new administration policy with respect to border walls," Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement. “From day one, this administration has made clear that a border wall is not the answer. That remains our position and our position has never wavered.”

 

He said a wall was needed in a certain area, not THE wall.  I covered this in an earlier post.

 

It's needed in many areas.  Along with the "remain in Mexico" policy, more and empowered border agents and aerial surveillance. 

[JDHillFan]

20 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I'll repeat, the money from this 'wall Bidenz building' is from appropriations(from Congress) from 2019 that HAD to legally be spent

Is there a statute of limitations of sorts that requires the money be spent now and that Biden realized his hands were tied a day after the dramatic Mayorcas order? Why wasn’t it spent in the four years since it was appropriated? I don’t know the answers to these questions. I hope you don’t find them too silly and partisan. 

[daz28]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's needed in many areas.  Along with the "remain in Mexico" policy, more and empowered border agents and aerial surveillance. 

I'd agree with all that, but the policies, laws, and enforcement all need work that Congress refuses to look at.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

33 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I got a newsflash for everyone.  Presidents don't make or change laws.  They also can't spend money.  Fox news rots brains.  Biden can no more build a wall than Trump can.  I'll repeat, the money from this 'wall Bidenz building' is from appropriations(from Congress) from 2019 that HAD to legally be spent.  For the most part, the immigration/border issues are issues Congress has to fix(which neither did when they've had the chance).

Yup, just emphatically informed of this verbally.

[daz28]

8 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Is there a statute of limitations of sorts that requires the money be spent now and that Biden realized his hands were tied a day after the dramatic Mayorcas order? Why wasn’t it spent in the four years since it was appropriated? I don’t know the answers to these questions. I hope you don’t find them too silly and partisan. 

Yes, I believe that's what happened.  I'm guessing Biden was sitting on the money stupidly even though it was needed before just so he didn't look hypocritical(silly political games).  I'd imagine he could have claimed there was conflicting laws(eco), but Mayorkas wanted(needed) the section of wall.

[JDHillFan]

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

Yes, I believe that's what happened.  I'm guessing Biden was sitting on the money stupidly even though it was needed before just so he didn't look hypocritical(silly political games).  I'd imagine he could have claimed there was conflicting laws(eco), but Mayorkas wanted(needed) the section of wall.

I see that it allegedly needs to be spent by year end. God only knows what awful penalty would await if it weren’t. 
 

Mayorcas now says “we are compelled to follow the law”. In order to do so 26 other laws will be waived. 
 

Something seems just a touch off. Hopefully Joe gives us his word as a Biden that it’s all on the up and up. Seems like he should have known about all this when he declared not a foot of new wall would be built during his presidency. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

It’s kind of funny… this wall topic. 
 

I noticed they fence off and wall prisons, or secure places they like to control access to.
 

Then there was a wall traversing through Berlin at one point, that seemed to inhibit free movement back and forth.

 

I suppose they didn’t know about shovels or ladders way back then….

 

Or maybe bolstering or improving a physical barrier at the point of enforcement reduces the aperture of entry points to allow resources to be spread less thinly. 

 

it takes a fraction of a second to step over an invisible line in the dirt. It takes a little more time to climb over a 20 ft wall with a ladder or dig a tunnel under it. 
 

It always seemed to me the idea was to help organize and better manage the incoming flow, and make it a tiny bit harder for the ones trying to come in without being detected. 

[daz28]

5 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

I see that it allegedly needs to be spent by year end. God only knows what awful penalty would await if it weren’t. 
 

Mayorcas now says “we are compelled to follow the law”. In order to do so 26 other laws will be waived. 
 

Something seems just a touch off. Hopefully Joe gives us his word as a Biden that it’s all on the up and up. Seems like he should have known about all this when he declared not a foot of new wall would be built during his presidency. 

You may be a bit confused about the silly political games.  It's not Trump/Biden/all of them's fault that they play them.  The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the uneducated voter who pledges allegiance to their favorite media source, which happily feeds them all the information they want to hear for profits.  In the trifecta of terrible that is the voter, the politician, and the media, the voter is the biggest loser, because he wants and chooses to be, and then he blames the other two.  If people hated both sides as much as they should, it would likely lead to solutions.    

[GETTOTHE50]

10 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Such a dumb waste of money. 

Im more conservative than liberal and I agree, the wall is stupid. Unfortunately it’s the only damn thing the govt has came up with to try to solve the issue.  they refuse to actually help these people acclimate to society to ultimately become self sustaining American citizens. 
 

the rinos don’t want to deal with immigrants because they are stupid and lazy (the rinos are, not immigrants) and the immigrants are only political pawns for dems. the dems don’t give a ***** about them. 
 

It’s a ***** situation where both sides refuse to actually come up with a reasonable solution, which they easily could IMO. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Lol.  The lefties now say a wall is good and has always been part of the plan.  

 

And bidens executive orders yesterday didn't happen. 

 

Lol

[BillsFanNC]

Everyone knows that there's not a chance in hell that dems will actually build a wall, right?

[Unforgiven]

How many invaders will they let in before the slow useful idiots realize they will also be impacted?

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Im more conservative than liberal and I agree, the wall is stupid. Unfortunately it’s the only damn thing the govt has came up with to try to solve the issue.  they refuse to actually help these people acclimate to society to ultimately become self sustaining American citizens. 
 

the rinos don’t want to deal with immigrants because they are stupid and lazy (the rinos are, not immigrants) and the immigrants are only political pawns for dems. the dems don’t give a ***** about them. 
 

It’s a ***** situation where both sides refuse to actually come up with a reasonable solution, which they easily could IMO. 

I think most of the D pols don't.  I think a few do.  Like AOC.  I think Talib cares about Palestinian refugees, I think Sanders actually cares about them.  Butyeah, by and large they don't.  And most D voters don't either.  Again, I think the more liberal ones do.

 

If the pols could come up with a comprehensive plan to deal with these people fairly and humanely, I think most everyone but the far R would be OK with it.  But they won't.  It's a wedge issue that's a winner for the R's right now....

[ChiGoose]

4 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Lol.  The lefties now say a wall is good and has always been part of the plan.  

 

And bidens executive orders yesterday didn't happen. 

 

Lol

Are you unable to read and just make up whatever fits your narrative despite the facts?

 

Liberals seem pretty upset about Biden’s move here.  But I guess that’s inconvenient for you, so you just ignore it. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Walls work very well in the rest of the world. Fences work great for most of us.

 

I see they put them around sensitive installations.  they must do something.

 

Anything to move the flow to a port of call is a good thing.

 

vs the human trafficking happening between.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Tommy Callahan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

How many invaders will they let in before the slow useful idiots realize they will also be impacted?

 

That was the impact of the move to start bussing migrants into democratic strongholds. 

every once in a while you see a good political maneuver- this was. 
 

once democrats and libs start seeing their communities taxed by all these homeless people showing up and demanding their food and shelter, they started saying… hmm this border thing is a problem. It was a hysterical inevitability when faux philanthropist libs who want to give away everything of everyone else’s gets impacted themselves by unintended consequences. Kind of a momentary awakening from the fallacy of their socialist utopian idealism. 
 

theyre all the same. They are ok giving to others until it means they have to contribute 😂 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Gregg]

5 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Lol.  The lefties now say a wall is good and has always been part of the plan.  

 

And bidens executive orders yesterday didn't happen. 

 

Lol

 

Remember election season is coming up soon so the Dems have to pretend they care about the American people so they can get re-elected again. Sadly, it will work as their clueless sheep fanbase will believe them.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, daz28 said:

I'd agree with all that, but the policies, laws, and enforcement all need work that Congress refuses to look at.  

 

👍

 

But again you need a supermajority in the Senate to make it happen.  No Dem will go along with it.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Doc

[Tommy Callahan]

9 hours ago, daz28 said:

You may be a bit confused about the silly political games.  It's not Trump/Biden/all of them's fault that they play them.  The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the uneducated voter who pledges allegiance to their favorite media source, which happily feeds them all the information they want to hear for profits.  In the trifecta of terrible that is the voter, the politician, and the media, the voter is the biggest loser, because he wants and chooses to be, and then he blames the other two.  If people hated both sides as much as they should, it would likely lead to solutions.    

like the fact most media are just mouthpieces for the DNC?

 

and the DNC and its PACS are targeting the uneducated youth demo with massively expensive PR?

 

like that?

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

As Joe Biden’s border crisis continues unabated, the American public is suffering from severe whiplash compliments of his administration’s bizarre and boomeranging messaging on the issue. 

 

When former President Donald Trump vowed to build a wall on the border to stem the flow of illegal immigration, we were told that walls don’t work (and that the very idea of building one was racist and xenophobic). 

 

When Biden ran for office, he vowed “not another foot of wall” would be constructed under his administration. When he took office, he issued an executive order declaring that no more taxpayer dollars would be diverted to construct the wall. 

 

When questioned about the influx of immigrants on their watch, the administration steadfastly claimed the border was “secure.” 

 

Until Wednesday, when, in an apparent about-face, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas issued a notice announcing that 26 federal laws would be waived to permit more border wall construction in southern Texas, noting “an acute and immediate need” to construct barriers and prevent unlawful entries into the country. 

 

Only to have Biden state again on Thursday that walls don’t work, and Mayorkas attribute the change to Congress having already appropriated the funds and the administration having no choice under the law. 

 

So…basically, walls don’t work unless there’s an acute need for them…but they still don’t work — at least not for Democratic messaging purposes. 

 

https://redstate.com/smoosieq/2023/10/06/moore-to-the-point-walls-dont-work-n2164741

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 hours ago, daz28 said:

If people hated both sides as much as they should, it would likely lead to solutions.    

This is really the nutshell. It’s painful how complaint sycophants vilify or exonerate identical behaviors based exclusively on party lines. 
 

There is an extreme lack of neutrality and objectivity across the board. Also if you are objective the liberal bias has more ownership of the mainstream right now.  
 

For each Fox News there are 3 msnbc’s.   
 

either party having too much control will be bad but right now we seem to be whipsawing to the extremes totally leaping over the 70 percent of moderates in the middle of the tug of war.

 

the saddest part is one of the most important elements of classic liberalism, resistance to government overreach, has been completely deleted from todays core liberal principles- they are cheerleaders for overreach and want more. 

 

I wonder if it’s repairable