Should the “Bills Mafia” make the wall of fame or is it covered by the 12th man?

[Your Brown Eye]

Next thread...."Should twobillsdrive.com make it to the Wall of Fame?"

[MJS]

10 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

My understanding was the rule was about piped in noise.  And it was not dumb. 

 

I have a recollection of a playoff game, at I think Cincy, and they intentionally blasted in noise in from the stadium when the Bills were on offense to make it more difficult for the Bills.  It was wrong.  It wasn't crowd noise, it was from the stadium speakers.

Nope. It was just about crowd noise and they could call a penalty if they deemed it interfered with the opposing offense calling a play.

 

https://theathletic.com/1446285/2019/12/11/remembering-the-time-the-nfl-tried-to-silence-its-fans/

20 hours ago, klos63 said:

Some Bills fans are way too into themselves.  On the Wall of Fame?  Come on.

Agree. It was a nice gesture by the team, but I think it is a little silly, to be honest.

[Bob Jones]

20 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

And the bills took the name from Texas A&m... Fun fact .  The bills are the only NFL team with direct copyright permission from A&m to use the term

 

Seattle and Indianapolis were sued

In place for only a couple seasons.. maybe 2

Apparently, the Seahawks also pay Texas A&M to use the phrase. Details here:

https://www.bigblueview.com/2017/10/21/16503930/history-of-the-12th-man

[hondo in seattle]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:14 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Didn't Texas A&M have it like 70 years before the bills though? 

 

And other schools used it before Texas A&M.  The expression "12th man" has been around for more than 100 years.  Lots of teams have used it.  

[hondo in seattle]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:52 AM, MJS said:

"Man" is not sexist. Women are included. Both men and women are part of mankind. "Man" has been used to describe all people, including women, for basically forever, going back to Old English, Old Germanic, and even Sanskrit.

 

You're right - to a point.  "Man" can refer to men or can refer to humankind.  Because it's not clear, some women find it offensive when they're left out by words like 'man' and 'mankind.'   So, for example, many people now prefer the expression 'humankind' over 'mankind.'  

 

The expression "12th man" is vague.  Does it refer to a man (since the first 11 men are clearly men) or to a fan of any gender?  

[Gugny]

I could see some people taking exception to the word “mafia” being up on the wall. 
 

Right or wrong (I personally don’t care), I think they’d be wise to stay away from it. 
 

If nothing else, take the murderer’s name off. Please. 
 

Lots of deserving players to replace it. 

[Stanley Lombardi]

We are one of about 32 NFL teams with "12th Man" on the wall.  Take one down and pass it around...

[StHustle]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:16 PM, BillsPride12 said:

Exactly.  Removing the 12th Man would be like tearing down a part of Bills history 

 

Don't remove just replace it with Bills Mafia in the new stadium. Our fanbase is not the 12th man anymore and BM deserves a spot on the wall. Simple.

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Apparently, the Seahawks also pay Texas A&M to use the phrase. Details here:

https://www.bigblueview.com/2017/10/21/16503930/history-of-the-12th-man

Yea but the author didn't give credit to buffalo who had it licensed and legally usable way before A&M

 

Said Seattle was the first to legally do it 😑

[NC-billsfan!]

Mods, can I get this thread shut down? It’s turned into a sh#t show. I was curious how people saw the 12th man vs Bills mafia. And should it be considered for the ring of honor. IT WASNT A VOTE!

[machine gun kelly]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:13 PM, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think that they are referencing the exact same people. With that said, 12th Man is generic, and Bills Mafia has become known worldwide, and is fully embraced by not only the players on the team, but the team itself.

 

I would be in favor of them changing the 12th Man to Bills Mafia on the Wall of Fame 

I looked at who disagreed with you, and there are some good posters who are. Real Bills fans, but I tend to agree with you.  I have Sirius so often will listen or watch other games when the Bills Arent playing.  Every announcer group across the league references the 12th man.  Seattle always tries to say they invented it, but I doubt it.

 

Bills Mafia means the 12th man, but is specific to only the Bills.  Why not memorialize on the new stadium.  I wouldn’t change HIGHMARK, but in 2026, the Mafia will be so synonymous with our rabid fans.  So Chevy, you won me over.

[Kirby Jackson]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:13 PM, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think that they are referencing the exact same people. With that said, 12th Man is generic, and Bills Mafia has become known worldwide, and is fully embraced by not only the players on the team, but the team itself.

 

I would be in favor of them changing the 12th Man to Bills Mafia on the Wall of Fame 

This ^^^
 

The 12th Man isn’t even ours. We pay a licensing fee to Texas A&M. That’s stupid. Bills Mafia is original and organic. That belongs on the Wall over 12th Man.

 

While we are on the note of “original” let’s not do “Jump Around” before the 4th Quarter. They tried that yesterday at the preseason game. I don’t know if it was because it was kid’s day or they were beta testing it or what. That is not our thing. That belongs to Wisconsin. Let’s build our own traditions. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[hondo in seattle]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:22 PM, oldmanfan said:

12th man takes care of it.  A fellow professor friend grew up in New England and was a huge Pats fan, but hates what Kraft has done.  So he’s now for the Bills.  When I told him I could get him a Mafia shirt he told me that brings up some horrible memories of the real Mob.  Point being it’s probably not the best to put Mafia up on the Wall.

That was Nick Miki-Meyer, and I’m sure that’s spelled wrong.  Great day, helped carry the goal post to Ralph’s box.

 

Professor, like your peer, I hated the expression "Bills Mafia" at first because of its association with the Italian mafia.  But it's grown on me.  Words take on new meanings over time.

The word "mafia" didn't always refer to evil criminal organizations.  From Wikipedia:

 

The word mafia (English: /ˈmɑːfiə/; Italian: [ˈmaːfja]) derives from the Sicilian adjective mafiusu, which, roughly translated, means "swagger", but can also be translated as "boldness" or "bravado". In reference to a man, mafiusu (mafioso in Italian) in 19th century Sicily signified "fearless", "enterprising", and "proud", according to scholar Diego Gambetta.[4] In reference to a woman, however, the feminine-form adjective mafiusa means 'beautiful' or 'attractive'.

 

I like the original meaning of the word a lot as the foundation of our nickname.  Of course, in American parlance "mafia" now has two meanings, one having to do with criminal organization and the other having to do with the most rabid fans in the NFL.  It's the second we embrace and honor.  

 

 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Professor, like your peer, I hated the expression "Bills Mafia" at first because of its association with the Italian mafia.  But it's grown on me.  Words take on new meanings over time.

The word "mafia" didn't always refer to evil criminal organizations.  From Wikipedia:

 

The word mafia (English: /ˈmɑːfiə/; Italian: [ˈmaːfja]) derives from the Sicilian adjective mafiusu, which, roughly translated, means "swagger", but can also be translated as "boldness" or "bravado". In reference to a man, mafiusu (mafioso in Italian) in 19th century Sicily signified "fearless", "enterprising", and "proud", according to scholar Diego Gambetta.[4] In reference to a woman, however, the feminine-form adjective mafiusa means 'beautiful' or 'attractive'.

 

I like the original meaning of the word a lot as the foundation of our nickname.  Of course, in American parlance "mafia" now has two meanings, one having to do with criminal organization and the other having to do with the most rabid fans in the NFL.  It's the second we embrace and honor.  

 

 

Agreed.  But my friend lost family members to the mob so I get where he’s coming from 

[without a drought]

What about fair weather and bandwagon fans?

 

 

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:15 PM, I'm Spartacus said:

Also, we didn't need that stupid train noise to get the fans motivated. The 12th man was as loud as a mother, without that goofy fan stimulus to get us rocking 

I like the train. 

[hondo in seattle]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Agreed.  But my friend lost family members to the mob so I get where he’s coming from 

 

Makes absolute sense.  

 

I was thinking about the evolution of words...  Jack Tatum once wrote a book called, "They Call Me Assassin."  He got that nickname (gave it to himself?) because he was a hard-hitting safety.  It had nothing to do with the original meaning of the word which had to do with a murderous medieval Persian religious sect.  Sadly, the self-monikered 'Assassin' paralyzed Darryl Stingley with a vicious hit and I doubt if Stingley's family appreciated the nickname Tatum still embraced.  

 

I get your friend.  But, for me, the word mafia which once meant 'swagger' evolved in Sicily to refer to a criminal organization.  It further morphed in the U.S. to refer to a group of people bound together by their mutual and excessive enthusiasm for their team.  

[muppy]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Makes absolute sense.  

 

I was thinking about the evolution of words...  Jack Tatum once wrote a book called, "They Call Me Assassin."  He got that nickname (gave it to himself?) because he was a hard-hitting safety.  It had nothing to do with the original meaning of the word which had to do with a murderous medieval Persian religious sect.  Sadly, the self-monikered 'Assassin' paralyzed Darryl Stingley with a vicious hit and I doubt if Stingley's family appreciated the nickname Tatum still embraced.  

 

I get your friend.  But, for me, the word mafia which once meant 'swagger' evolved in Sicily to refer to a criminal organization.  It further morphed in the U.S. to refer to a group of people bound together by their mutual and excessive enthusiasm for their team.  

swagger is a word that isn't used all that much in modern vernacular. Now I want to google to see if it somehow relates to merchandise aka "Bills swag"

My point being I did not know that mafia also meant swagger. It gives the term nuance it didn't have before.

 

I know some people literally hate the term "Bills mafia" so for that reason I would say it might not fly. What about super fans like Pancho Billa?  The Chefs? Yeah Not on "the wall of fame" I think elsewhere too

 

I think of Bills Mafia at least as much for their charitable giving as table breaking. But that may or may not be a national view of it Im not sure.

 

 

Quote

What does swag mean in slang?

A derivative of the word swagger, SWAG refers to someone who displays confidence to the point of being arrogant or cocky. Another meaning of SWAG refers to promotional items that advertise companies and products. Examples of how your teen might use the slang term SWAG : -Here comes Aaron. Bring on the swag!

 

[Mango]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:26 PM, NC-billsfan! said:

That’s what I was thinking. The 12th man is pretty generic, but not sure if it’s ok to take down the 12th man. Wonder what the plans are for the new stadium?

I think the solution in the Ralph is to put Bills Mafia in zubaz colored print directly under the black 12th man. They can share the same tile on the wall. 

[muppy]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think the solution in the Ralph is to put Bills Mafia in zubaz colored print directly under the black 12th man. They can share the same tile on the wall. 

I love it. Best idea I've read.

[jethro_tull]

no