Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Where do you see originality in the building of our team/roster over the past 6 seasons, particularly via the drafts?  
 

Maybe I'm missing a lot.  I'm open to the possibility.  Convince me.  

 

 

 

Sorry, That's a "No Thanks."  Brandolini's Law applies here: you don't get to throw out a shallow take in language insulting to Beane and our FO, and then expect other people to invest their time and go into detail debunking the trite take you spent two sentences typing.

 

If you actually lay out a convincing argument from the players the Bills visited or had in pre-draft that Beane was "set" on a "monkey see monkey do" Kelce copycat acquisition vs. just trying to draft the best receiving weapon he could get for the Bills - or lay out a convincing argument that there ISN'T originality in the Bills roster building, I'll be happy to respond.  But you lay some work down first.  (I'll give you one take - look at all the pre-draft takes on Josh Allen and how QB accuracy never improves that Beane shrugged and ignored - to the Bills benefit)

Edited July 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[Warcodered]

 

[Beck Water]

31 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I agree with this. Allen was way too tentative for the snap -like a Freshman taking a snap for the very 1st time.

 

It looked to me as though he was focused on where to direct his sneak and just assumed he'd get the ball in his hands.  The equivalent of the classic WR mistake where they start thinking about YAC and don't "look it in".

 

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

I am so slow.  I had to actually watch the clip before the lightbulb dawned that the pass was to Cook and the Bills PR dep't were making a pun.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Where do you see originality in the building of our team/roster over the past 6 seasons, particularly via the drafts?  
 

Maybe I'm missing a lot.  I'm open to the possibility.  Convince me.  

 

 

Really?  It's all over.  Rousseau, Epeneza, Spencer Brown, Kincaid, Bernard.  They have a particular kind of guy they like - athletic, multi-purpose, competitors.  They aren't conventional stars, and they might never work out.  But it's certainly original.  

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

It looked to me as though he was focused on where to direct his sneak and just assumed he'd get the ball in his hands.  The equivalent of the classic WR mistake where they start thinking about YAC and don't "look it in".

 

Yes.  I've always viewed it that way.  Classic lapse I. Focus that we've seen from Josh once in a while.  

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

So how is he putting up those numbers but can't be a teams best wideout

 

Allow me to clarify.  

 

OK, to start I said under the right circumstances.  I'm also of the mind that if Dorsey improves to being a top-notch OC, not even the best in the league, simply say top-5, then I see our offense easily being the best in franchise history.  I've said this many times over the past month or so.  

 

IF, and I realize that's a big if, Dorsey does that, I see no reason why we can't have multiple 1,000-yard receivers on the team, Diggs, Davis, and quite possibly even a third although that's probably a reach although I can see two 1,000+ and an 800/900 fairly easily if the Dorsey/Allen/play-calling sync is 100%.  

 

Smith on Philly last season put up 1,196 (1,200 essentially) and 7 TDs, yet was only #2 by a significant margin.  Adams had 1,516/14.  

 

But Diggs isn't the TD producer that Adams is, and Davis is a better TD producer than Smith is, so I can see similar here, for example, Diggs 1,500/12 and Davis 1,200/12.  Davis ranks very high among WRs catch% for TDs generally speaking.  

 

I'd say that there's a fair chance, not great, that this occurs, but I can easily see it happening.  Again, IMO whether or not we're historically great or merely top-4 or 5 in the league this season, depends upon Dorsey's coaching regimen a year into his tenure as OC.  

 

 

[JESSEFEFFER]

3 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Thank you for sharing that story.

I knew of the story but I just watched the video now for the full details. Oh my.

[snamsnoops]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

This is just awesome.

 

 

That's my niece up front with the white JA17 jersey!   It was a beautiful day!

Edited July 30, 2023 by snamsnoops

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, snamsnoops said:

That's my niece up front with the white JA17 jersey!   It was a beautiful day!

 

What a fantastic experience for her!  I hope she had a blast!

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Allow me to clarify.  

 

OK, to start I said under the right circumstances.  I'm also of the mind that if Dorsey improves to being a top-notch OC, not even the best in the league, simply say top-5, then I see our offense easily being the best in franchise history.  I've said this many times over the past month or so.  

 

IF, and I realize that's a big if, Dorsey does that, I see no reason why we can't have multiple 1,000-yard receivers on the team, Diggs, Davis, and quite possibly even a third although that's probably a reach although I can see two 1,000+ and an 800/900 fairly easily if the Dorsey/Allen/play-calling sync is 100%.  

 

Smith on Philly last season put up 1,196 (1,200 essentially) and 7 TDs, yet was only #2 by a significant margin.  Adams had 1,516/14.  

 

But Diggs isn't the TD producer that Adams is, and Davis is a better TD producer than Smith is, so I can see similar here, for example, Diggs 1,500/12 and Davis 1,200/12.  Davis ranks very high among WRs catch% for TDs generally speaking.  

 

I'd say that there's a fair chance, not great, that this occurs, but I can easily see it happening.  Again, IMO whether or not we're historically great or merely top-4 or 5 in the league this season, depends upon Dorsey's coaching regimen a year into his tenure as OC.  

 

 

very confusing argument

 

Davis' best production was under Dorsey, yet you seem to think he's responsible for somehow hindering Davis

 

and your proof of this is Davonta Smith, a first round Heisman winner

 

does not pass muster sorry

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Where do you see originality in the building of our team/roster over the past 6 seasons, particularly via the drafts?  
 

Maybe I'm missing a lot.  I'm open to the possibility.  Convince me.  

 

 

“Originality” LOL

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Sorry, That's a "No Thanks."  Brandolini's Law applies here: you don't get to throw out a shallow take in language insulting to Beane and our FO, and then expect other people to invest their time and go into detail debunking the trite take you spent two sentences typing.

 

If you actually lay out a convincing argument from the players the Bills visited or had in pre-draft that Beane was "set" on a "monkey see monkey do" Kelce copycat acquisition vs. just trying to draft the best receiving weapon he could get for the Bills - or lay out a convincing argument that there ISN'T originality in the Bills roster building, I'll be happy to respond.  But you lay some work down first.  (I'll give you one take - look at all the pre-draft takes on Josh Allen and how QB accuracy never improves that Beane shrugged and ignored - to the Bills benefit)

 

Allen was an incredibly anomalous risky pick that worked out.   I really don't think it appropriate to bring Beane up at this point in time in the season, but since you insist, and in defense I will.  It gets really old having Beane's ability as a GM revolve entirely around Allen and the enormous project risk that he was.  Many other QBs with similar skills in college have come and gone w/o anything even sniffing that level of success.  To ignore that is to ignore the risk that Beane & Co. took.  

 

It worked out, great, here we are, all tremendously thankful.  My take at the time was that Allen didn't come with the skillset, but that since he was brilliant there was hope.  And he is brilliant.  

 

At the same time, I'm not going to rave about how great Beane's been for another decade because of Allen.  

 

Now, onto the more meaty part of your post;  🙄

 

Quote

But you lay some work down first.

 

Beane has largely addressed needs on this team as they've existed.  There's been incredibly little planning for future holes.  Apart from five years of signing 1-2 year journeyman free-agents for our OL, the most recent example is MLB.  

 

He did nothing to address the original loss of Lorax, when we switched to a 2 LB system.  Sure, you can argue how "brilliant" it was and planned, but I don't buy that for a second and nor should anyone as there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that they would have played 3 LBs otherwise if they'd actually had the talent, and they did for a while using Klein to little effect, because he's purely depth-caliber (part of my argument).  But he did nothing to prepare for the loss of Edmunds.  Now we're grasping at straws hoping that several incredibly unlikely candidates will fill the sizeable hole left by his departure.  

 

Othwerwise, you're asking me to prove a negative.  You are the one that insists that they're not merely doing what other teams traditionally do, general paradigms in essence, but that they've had some kind of plan that they've effectively managed to execute.  The only problem is that we have a preponderance of free-agents and a serious void of draftees that make that kind of impact for our team, which further contributes to that angle.  

 

If you don't want to demonstrate how there's been originality, other than in enormous risk-taking, that's fine, I can understand why you wouldn't as it's a tall task if it's even possible at all.  

 

It also amazes me how people get so emotional over a simple opinion.  

 

Anyway, unless you want to demonstrate something that you now insist exists, I think we're finished here.  I see no reason to continue this discussion.  I'm sorry it offended you.  Truly, I am.  Tomorrow's a new day.   

 

The season is on the cusp of beginning.  

 

GO BILLS!!!!

 

Here's hoping for a Championship, finally!!!  

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

[Warcodered]

 

[PBF81]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Really?  It's all over.  Rousseau, Epeneza, Spencer Brown, Kincaid, Bernard.  They have a particular kind of guy they like - athletic, multi-purpose, competitors.  They aren't conventional stars, and they might never work out.  But it's certainly original.  

 

The only "originality" I see in those picks, beside the possible exception of Rousseau, who's also proven nothing yet, is in trying to get 1st/2nd-rounders in rounds later than the better ones normally would have been selected.  

 

What was so original about the Epenesa pick?  Specfically?   Brown?  Bernard?  

 

Kincaid, again, the crux of my point, was an unoriginal attempt to create in Buffalo what Reid has created in KC using Kelce.  Hardly original.  

 

Rousseau, possibly, given the versatility, but again, perhaps I should have defined "originality" a little bit better.  When I first said it, I was generally referring to a style of play, particularly offensively, but also defensively.  And on the flip side, I wasn't referring to constantly taking unconventional risks that don't pan out to the extent that he's done that, like with Rousseau.  

 

Signing Diggs, Poyer, Hyde, Morse, a bunch of revolving door WRs, a few TEs too, many OL-men, signing depth-caliber LBs to hopefully start, and even many DL-men, many of which were overpaid  or at least paid top-dollar for what they are, is hardly original.  

 

The whole 2 LB thing is original, but my point there is that it wasn't deliberate, it was forced upon them due to very specifically a lack of Beane being on top of things, per above, read it again if you don't know what I'm talking about.  

 

Otherwise, if his drafts and team/roster building are so original, then they've largely failed in so many ways.  

 

You may see it differently, great.  So be it.  I'm content with it. 

 

Go BILLS!!!  

 

 

[In Summary]

Dean Kindig (Astro) notes:

https://buffalofambase.com/author/deankindig/

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

I hope they give Bates a shot with the 1st team at center.

I don’t.  I think continuity is important on the OLine.  Let morse, our starter, get as many reps with two new guys next to him.  I get your reasoning but you’re thinking too far out.

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

No one has seemed to mention this throw was over Hyde!!!!  Not the MLB or some other dude but Micah freaking Hyde (one of the best deep ball defenders in the league). Motioning Cook wide in 12 personnel is gonna be deadly

[Jerry Jabber]

5 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Dean Kindig (Astro) notes:

https://buffalofambase.com/author/deankindig/

That’s from Friday, July 28th.

[JDubya76]

6 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Dean Kindig (Astro) notes:

https://buffalofambase.com/author/deankindig/

Is there an article from today? The most current article I see is from the 28th.

[PBF81]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

very confusing argument

 

I'm sure it is.  Where'd I lose ya?   LOL  

 

 

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Davis' best production was under Dorsey, yet you seem to think he's responsible for somehow hindering Davis

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that Davis put up 1,200 yards and a dozen TDs last season.  I must've missed some games.  

 

 

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

and your proof of this is Davonta Smith, a first round Heisman winner

 

No, my proof is that a team can have two top-10 WRs.  There are other examples in NFL history.  Feel free to go find them.  This implication that it's absurd is ignornant.  

 

You said nothing about heisman awards or draft status previously, now all of a sudden this irrelevant-to-the-discussion circumstance enters the discussion.  

 

Diggs was a 5th rounder originally.  So your point is ... what, exactly?   Seems as if your goal is to prove that Davis sucks.  OK, great.  I happen to have more hope for him and for our offense this season.  Sorry for being so optimistic.  

 

Otherwise, I was being pretty civil with you, not sure why you're erupting and engaging like this.  

 

 

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

does not pass muster sorry

 

I'm crushed.  

 

LOL 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with that.  I didn't mean to insinuate that he's got the same skillset at Diggs, obviously he doesn't.  

 

He is one of Beane's better draft picks however.  He was the 17th WR taken in that draft class in 2020, yet, he's scored more TDs than all but Jefferson, more than 14 WRs drafted ahead of him, and has more yards than 8 WRs drafted ahead of him.  

 

Corroborating your statement, he strikes me as more of an Alvin Harper guy to compliment Irvin, rather than the top-dog.  IMO he has almost no chance of ever becoming any team's #1 WR, at least if that team's going to be any good.  

 

OTOH, I can defintely see him putting up 1,200 Yards and a dozen TDs on 65-70 receptions under the right circumstances, possibly a little bit more.  

 

 

I think if Kincaid matches the hype in the regular season, I expect Davis to have a killer year but not volume of receptions.

 

Im thinking 50 receptions but agree on the other numbers.  He’s a good deep threat.  I would say he’s one of the best post route deep threat.
 

I don’t buy his ankle as the reason he dropped balls.  I could agree it slowed him up where he was a step and didn’t get to the ball as quickly.  But not when the ball hits both hands.