Herbert deal signed : 262M - 5 yrs extension

[buffblue]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Herbert’s defense had Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa, Derwin James, Asante Samuel, JC Jackson, Dru Tranquill, etc.  His RB was Austin Ekeler who was 38 TDs in the last 2 seasons.  If the Ravens had a better running game, it’s because of Lamar.  

 

There is simply no advantage that Lamar has had that warrants hand-waiving away the difference between 45-16 and 25-24.

I disagree, and I laid out why in very simple terms. The idea that the Chargers have a better running game than BAL excluding qb's is simply laughable. Oh by the way, the Ravens also have a far superior tight end as well

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

The Chargers Offense is weird .. not sure if it’s by design for Herbert or what, but every game seems like a hundred dump offs to Ekeler with intermediate to deep shots down the field to zero separation big/physical WR’s. 

There was a tweet.from last season to the effect of - the Dolphins call plays like they have Justin Herbert at QB and the Chargers call plays like they have Tua😂😂

[Franco_92]

40 minutes ago, Billl said:

Herbert’s defense had Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa, Derwin James, Asante Samuel, JC Jackson, Dru Tranquill, etc.  His RB was Austin Ekeler who was 38 TDs in the last 2 seasons.  If the Ravens had a better running game, it’s because of Lamar.  

 

There is simply no advantage that Lamar has had that warrants hand-waiving away the difference between 45-16 and 25-24.

I just saw a stat floating around today

 

That defense filled with the players you list, gave Herbert the highest number of combined points allowed through a QB's first 3 seasons in NFL history.

 

Apparently, Herbert has also led his team to the most points in a player's first three seasons as QB as well, but it's not enough to be great when your defense is breaking the record in the other direction

 

And he had busted ribs from week 2 onward last year

 

Anyone who has watched Allen and Burrow play Mahomes says "is my quarterback capable of winning a game like that?" Herbert has the skillset to lead a passing offense capable of this. Lamar has 33 passing touchdowns in his last 24 games, has horrendous playoff numbers and hasn't been on the field for his team's last meaningful snaps of the year since 2019 due to injury

Edited July 26, 2023 by arcane

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

32 out of 32 NFL GM’s would take Herbert over Jackson.

 

That may be true, but seeing what I have seen, I would take Lamar and simply get him a big time WR.  

 

It's not rocket science.  The Ravens gonna Raven though.  

[C.Biscuit97]

57 minutes ago, SCBills said:

And Lamar was given the MVP for his troubles. 
 

He can’t stay healthy the past two years, and struggles in the playoffs. 
 

Herbert, with his one brutal playoff loss included, has at least shown he can win regular season games from the pocket. 

 

I think the Top 3 are clear in Mahomes, Allen and Burrow, but after those 3 it’s a toss up with Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence, Lamar etc.. 

 

I think don’t think any GM, if drafting from those 4 to start a franchise, would choose Lamar. 
 

 

How did the guy who has way worse record than Lamar and zero playoff wins proven he can win more than him? That makes zero sense. 
 

And I’d lean towards Herbert but there are so many double standards in the way Herbert is viewed than Jackson, who has a MVP, much better record, and a playoff win. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Lamar is 45-16 as a starter.  Herbert is 25-24 and has had a roster every bit as good or better around him.

Prime example of wins not being a QB stat.  Ravens are a better run organization with a better head coach.  Jimmy G has a 40-17 record in his career as a starter because it's a better run organization with a superior head coach.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, buffblue said:

Still doesn't change the original point. I would take Herbert every day and twice on Sunday before Lamar, and I'm not even a big fan of his.

 

Better WR's thus far? Yes

Better OL? No

Better defense? No

Better coach? No 

Better running game? No 

Eckler is a million times better than any Baltimore running back. Lamar makes the running game special. 
 

also, it’s PFF, but it has Baltimore’s oline ranked 4th and the Chargers 9th.  I like both guys but people love making excuses for Herbert while finding any reason to put Jackson down.  https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-2023-offseason

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Prime example of wins not being a QB stat.  Ravens are a better run organization with a better head coach.  Jimmy G has a 40-17 record in his career as a starter because it's a better run organization with a superior head coach.

I missed Jimmy G getting voted best player in the nfl after being the best player in college. Even when pplaykng with Deebo, Kittle, and Ayuk and half a season with CMC.
 

comparing Jackson to Jimmy G is just flat out stupid. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by C.Biscuit97

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I missed Jimmy G getting voted best player in the nfl after being the best player in college. 
 

comparing Jackson to Jimmy G is just flat out stupid. 

So is comparing QB's by winning percentage which is why I did it.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

So is comparing QB's by winning percentage which is why I did it.

If Jimmy G even made a pro bowl, this might make a tiny bit of sense. Jackson was voted best player in the nfl. It’s a stupid comparison. 

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If Jimmy G even made a pro bowl, this might make a tiny bit of sense. Jackson was voted best player in the nfl. It’s a stupid comparison. 

Jackson won an MVP too.  Comparing Jackson to Jimmy G because they have a similar winning percentage is laughable.  Same goes for comparing Herbert to Lamar based off that singular metric.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Doc Brown

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

32 out of 32 NFL GM’s would take Herbert over Jackson.

Maybe so, but LJ has accomplished a lot more and actually won playoff games. Herbert is a better long term QB, but if a team wants to push hard for a SB in a 5-7 year window then I’d rather have Lamar. Injuries are the only things getting in his way. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That’s valid. But the chargers always get talked about as SB contenders every year and they barely have a winning record with Herbert (flawed stat but elite qbs who make this money should have better than a 25-24 record). 
 

I really like him but if Jackson choked a way a 27-0 playoff lead, he would be getting crushed. I think Herbert gets the biggest pass in the league.

 

100% agree. 

 

I will acknowledge the case for the defense which is that DeCosta, Harbaugh, Roman is a considerably better support structure than anything Herbert has had in terms of coaching and front office (remains to be seem what Todd Monken brings, didn't love that hire). 

 

Herbert's 2nd half lulls are still a pattern and his overall TD to INT rate in 2nd half football is worse than 2:1 (39:22) whereas Allen and Burrow are 2.5:1, Mahomes is 3:1 and Jackson is 3.5/1. 

 

Equally when you just isolate 4th Quarter... 

 

Herbert 1.6/1

Jackson 2.2/1

Burrow 2.5/1

Mahomes 2.9/1

Allen 3.7/1

 

So it doesn't matter whether you look at the 2nd half as a whole or isolate the 4th Quarter the evidence is pretty clear that compared to his well paid (Burrow is about to be) similar aged AFC peers Herbert just does not play his best when the game comes down to its decisive moments. 

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Well, on the Dolphins forum, most (and I do mean a very big "most") are claiming Tua is better than Josh, lol. 

 

Also:

 

 

In all seriousness, it's hard to get a franchise QB, or even close to one, as we well know. If Tua holds up reasonably well this year, Miami had better invest in him, less they waste away the likes of Tyreek, Jaylen, etc. Or they can tank, I guess, for Caleb and watch their fanbase and Tyreek meltdown, lol.

He’s glass. Won’t make it 6 years, imo.

[BigDingus]

9 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Highest per year ($52.5 mill) QB.  Allen is a steal

 

In a few years, Herbert's deal will look like a steal. It's all relative, as each year the contracts will get more & more insane as the cap increases. 

 

Hurts got his extension & was the highest paid ever by year. A month later, Lamar tops it. Now here we are with Herbert. I'm sure Burrow will then be the next highest paid in a little bit. 

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

In a few years, Herbert's deal will look like a steal. It's all relative, as each year the contracts will get more & more insane as the cap increases. 

 

Hurts got his extension & was the highest paid ever by year. A month later, Lamar tops it. Now here we are with Herbert. I'm sure Burrow will then be the next highest paid in a little bit. 

 

Yep. It is just the QB market. And the longer you wait the more you pay. It is why the Bills shouldn't wait on contract #3 for Josh. I suspect he will start agitating for a new deal after the 2026 season at which point his guarantees have dried up. The Bills should move quickly and do a deal at that point. It will put Josh back at the top of the tree for a period, but as we can see, it never lasts long. 

 

Remember when everyone was outraged that Dak became the 4th highest paid QB? "they should have traded him rather than pay him that, play Andy Dalton" were the cries. He isn't even in the top 10 now. It's the price of doing business in the NFL. You either have a QB in which case you pay top dollar when you extend them, or you don't. It is why everyone agrees the years your QB is on a rookie deal are such an opportunity if you hit in the draft. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

The Chargers Offense is weird .. not sure if it’s by design for Herbert or what, but every game seems like a hundred dump offs to Ekeler with intermediate to deep shots down the field to zero separation big/physical WR’s. 

 

The zero separation at receiver was an issue last year. Keenan Allen isn't quite as shifty as once he was and seems to be constantly carrying a niggle or two. 

[nucci]

9 hours ago, ngbills said:

Beane wizadry at work. Signed Allen to a deal that only he knew would be passed by others in the following years. Pure genius at work. Just wait for the Trevor Lawrence deal. 

all contracts signed years ago look better than current ones. That's how it works in the NFL.  Wasn't anywhere near genius

[Buffalo_Stampede]

When Josh Allen signed his deal back to back MVP Aaron Rodgers made like $30 million. Then a year later he was the highest paid QB.

 

Now Rodgers has been passed again by multiple QBs. This will keep happening until the NFL stops growing. 
 

Allen will get an extension soon because oddly enough it will lower his cap hit.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Matt_In_NH]

11 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Highest per year ($52.5 mill) QB.  Allen is a steal

For now

[nucci]

11 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Highest per year ($52.5 mill) QB.  Allen is a steal

No, he's not. He signed  market value at the time and will sign a bigger deal next time which will put him at the top of the scale....until the next QB signs....kind of a pattern for QBs in the NFL