Barbie vs Oppenheimer

[Doc Brown]

7 hours ago, Rico said:

Barbie was very very stupid, but then again I’m not the target audience.

 

Oppenheimer was good but not great, little too long. I most enjoyed Florence Pugh.

 

Movie of the year is still the masterpiece John Wick Chapter 4.

I agree.  There were a few jokes that hit on Barbie but other than that I felt like I was stuck in a bad acid trip.  Oppenheimer was very good (could've used an intermission though) but I thought there was a little bit of hubris with Nolan with the distracting background music along with some of the visuals. 

[Just Jack]

7 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

That means you’ll be at the theater for 6 hours 😳

I know, but it’s in a plaza so between movies we can go out to a restaurant and get a real meal.  

[boyst]

The media never gets it

 

So, because the heralded critics give it high marks and a 90% fresh score and the public sees it score far less - it is because the general public audience ratings bombed the movie instead of simply rating it properly.

 

How dare the public hold their own respective opinion!

[Max Fischer]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:06 PM, Nextmanup said:

Would you care to reconsider that?  Or could you please direct me to anything he's ever done worthy of such a comment? 

 

He's one of these people that Hollywood has deemed "a star" for no particular reason.  There are many such people.  I still don't understand what anyone ever saw in Tom Hanks, for example.  He's probably as successful of a living actor as there is.  Why?  

 

As someone who would have enjoyed the hell out of a well done film about Dunkirk, all I can say is the film Nolan made is terrible.

 

Have not seen, nor do I watch, comic book movies...so maybe his Batman stuff appeals to that audience.

 

Have not seen "Oppenheimer" but I would bet a good amount of money this film would have been much better and much more interesting had it been a straight-up, non-fiction, documentary...instead of whatever he made with actors and fictional dialogue.

 

It's always like that with films like that.

 

 

 

"I haven't seen the movie but I'm going to give my opinion anyway."

 

Nolan is a [almost] universally acclaimed as one of the best directors and writers of the past 25 years but please go ahead and offer your thoughts on movies you haven't seen. 

 

It appears your thoughtfulness on Nolan is only matched by your critique of Hanks. Like all actors, Hanks doesn't always star in great films, but his performances are usually at the heart of most of the beloved and acclaimed movies of the last 40 years.  

 

Just a few:

 

- Splash

- Big

 

This run of movies in order from 1992 to 2002: 

- A League of Their Own

- Sleepless in Seattle

- Philadelphia

- Forrest Gump

- Apollo 13

- Toy Story

- That Thing You Do (Wrote and Directed)

- Saving Private Ryan

- You've Got Mail

- Toy Story 2

- The Green Mile

- Cast Away

- Road to Perdition

 

Then later: 

- Polar Express

- Bridge of Spies

- Sully

- The Post

- Greyhound

- A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

 

For TV:

- Bosom Buddies

- Saturday Night Live

- From Earth to the Moon (Writer Director Producer)

- Band of Brothers (Writer Director Producer)

- Pacific (Producer)

- John Adams (Producer)

 

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

The media never gets it

 

So, because the heralded critics give it high marks and a 90% fresh score and the public sees it score far less - it is because the general public audience ratings bombed the movie instead of simply rating it properly.

 

How dare the public hold their own respective opinion!

 

Care to revise your remarks?

 

Rotten Tomatoes - It's at 87% Audience Score, which nearly matches the 90% Critic Score

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

"I haven't seen the movie but I'm going to give my opinion anyway."

 

Nolan is a [almost] universally acclaimed as one of the best directors and writers of the past 25 years but please go ahead and offer your thoughts on movies you haven't seen. 

 

It appears your thoughtfulness on Nolan is only matched by your critique of Hanks. Like all actors, Hanks doesn't always star in great films, but his performances are usually at the heart of most of the beloved and acclaimed movies of the last 40 years.  

 

Just a few:

 

- Splash

- Big

 

This run of movies in order from 1992 to 2002: 

- A League of Their Own

- Sleepless in Seattle

- Philadelphia

- Forrest Gump

- Apollo 13

- Toy Story

- That Thing You Do (Wrote and Directed)

- Saving Private Ryan

- You've Got Mail

- Toy Story 2

- The Green Mile

- Cast Away

- Road to Perdition

 

Then later: 

- Polar Express

- Bridge of Spies

- Sully

- The Post

- Greyhound

- A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

 

For TV:

- Bosom Buddies

- Saturday Night Live

- From Earth to the Moon (Writer Director Producer)

- Band of Brothers (Writer Director Producer)

- Pacific (Producer)

- John Adams (Producer)

 

 

Care to revise your remarks?

 

Rotten Tomatoes - It's at 87% Audience Score, which nearly matches the 90% Critic Score

Just going off the article hoss.

[Max Fischer]

Just now, boyst said:

Just going off the article hoss.

 

I would have thought you'd go to the source. Only a click away. 

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

I would have thought you'd go to the source. Only a click away. 

The point wasn't the source. The point was the article. People voted against the appeal of the movie so the people must be wrong.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't put it past rotten tomatoes to alter the reviews or nullify those they disagree with. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:53 PM, Augie said:

We were in NYC a few weeks ago and it was impossible NOT to notice all the buses and digital billboards pushing Barbie. It was EVERYWHERE!

 

This is the first I’ve heard of Oppenheimer. I’d be much more likely to see that. 

Was in LA and theres Oppenheimer billboards everywhere with a countdown timer on them. No clue what it was at first. Then we hit Hollywood and pink everywhere. 

[Max Fischer]

Just now, boyst said:

The point wasn't the source. The point was the article. People voted against the appeal of the movie so the people must be wrong.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't put it past rotten tomatoes to alter the reviews or nullify those they disagree with. 

 

Yup, no doubt it's another massive conspiracy just to conflict with your narrow worldview. 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

We went to Oppenheimer last night.  Thought it was excellent.  Will see a second time but wait for streaming.  A Barbie showing started the same time.  The line for tix was very long with girls and woman of all ages dressed in pink and a few guys who looked like they were dates of the pink ladies.  At least twice as many people for Barbie than Oppenheimer.

[Jauronimo]

6 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

We went to Oppenheimer last night.  Thought it was excellent.  Will see a second time but wait for streaming.  A Barbie showing started the same time.  The line for tix was very long with girls and woman of all ages dressed in pink and a few guys who looked like they were dates of the pink ladies.  At least twice as many people for Barbie than Oppenheimer.

I am surprised that Oppenheimer has been received well given the controversial nature of his work, particularly in the current political climate.  I really thought it was going to cause uproar given what is happening in school boards across the nation and charged ad campaigns.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

59 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I am surprised that Oppenheimer has been received well given the controversial nature of his work, particularly in the current political climate.  I really thought it was going to cause uproar given what is happening in school boards across the nation and charged ad campaigns.  

Looks like not.  Which, I think, is good.

[Irv]

I saw the movie.  Why did Barbie have bruised boobs?  

[K-9]

Saw ‘Oppenheimer’ today and would highly recommend seeing it. Superb in every sense of the word. Just a marvelously crafted movie with great performances by every actor in it, especially Murphy and Downey Jr. who turns in his best work in years, perhaps ever. As @sherpamentioned, it helped to have read The Making of the Atomic Bomb, by Richard Rhodes a couple times previously as the fast pacing and time jumps in the movie might be a little confusing to those not acquainted with the history. 

[K-9]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:25 PM, boyst said:

Was it brought up that Oppenheimer was a commie?

The smear campaign against him was a central theme. 
 

And for the record, he wasn’t a commie. Just like most of those targeted and tainted in the McCarthy era. 

[Just Jack]

Saw both today...

 

Barbie - cute, some ok jokes, but too preachy and woke, about 20 minutes too long I think.

 

Oppenheimer - since I knew going in about the time jumps, it made it easier to follow the story.  But I think once it comes out to DVD/streaming, someone will edit it to put it in chronological order.  

 

There were more people seeing Oppenheimer than Barbie, but Barbie was in a theater about 2/3 of the size of what they were using for Oppenheimer.  Percentage wise, both theaters were about 80% full.  

 

And I'm disappointed that Movie Taver/Marcus Theaters cuts off drink/food sales through their app at some point during the movie. About halfway through I want to get a drink but would have had to go out to the bar to get it, since the app wasn't accepting orders at that time.  

[muppy]

I was at the movies recently it was packed. We saw "The Haunted Mansion". But what I came to post about were the cosplays and dressed to the 9"s Barbie girls in line for that movie.

 

Mostly pink outfits but also a "Beach Barbie" and a couple pinup style outfits.  They all looked fabulous!

 

except for maybe star wars and Rocky Horror I don't recall of his happening all that often otherwise

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I haven’t seen either movie, but last night my wife took my 9 year old daughter and 13 year old son to see the Barbie movie.  I didn’t think my son would be too interested, but he was bored so he tagged along.

 

When he got home I asked him how the movie was, and his response was interesting and kind of caught me off guard.

 

He was noticeably a bit miffed, and felt as though the movie really portrayed men in a crappy and unfair way.  He said during one point in the movie when the characters went into the “real world” the men were depicted as misogynistic (my word based on his description) pigs…essentially.

 

He was kind of upset about the whole thing.  Anyway, just sharing the perspective of a very well adjusted, bright, and kind 13 year old boy.  My wife and daughter both enjoyed the movie.

[Nextmanup]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:58 AM, muppy said:

I was at the movies recently it was packed. We saw "The Haunted Mansion". But what I came to post about were the cosplays and dressed to the 9"s Barbie girls in line for that movie.

 

Mostly pink outfits but also a "Beach Barbie" and a couple pinup style outfits.  They all looked fabulous!

 

except for maybe star wars and Rocky Horror I don't recall of his happening all that often otherwise

Well, you are in San Diego.  I would imagine southern Cal. is great for that sort of thing.

 

Having said that, I do live in SE FL....

 

I need to get to a viewing of "BARBIE" immediately.

 

🤷‍♂️

[boyst]

9 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I haven’t seen either movie, but last night my wife took my 9 year old daughter and 13 year old son to see the Barbie movie.  I didn’t think my son would be too interested, but he was bored so he tagged along.

 

When he got home I asked him how the movie was, and his response was interesting and kind of caught me off guard.

 

He was noticeably a bit miffed, and felt as though the movie really portrayed men in a crappy and unfair way.  He said during one point in the movie when the characters went into the “real world” the men were depicted as misogynistic (my word based on his description) pigs…essentially.

 

He was kind of upset about the whole thing.  Anyway, just sharing the perspective of a very well adjusted, bright, and kind 13 year old boy.  My wife and daughter both enjoyed the movie.

Interesting. I have not seen it.

 

Got into a discussion about the movie with a woman who had. She said it was applicable to modern world. How women struggle to always dress up, be pretty, be something for men to want.

 

I objected and said & stand by women do this for other women. I only know one guy who doesn't prefer the simpler look, less makeup, less glitz kind of thing. The guy who does is a douchebag who would fit the personification of what Ken is described as being.

[Logic]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:05 AM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I haven’t seen either movie, but last night my wife took my 9 year old daughter and 13 year old son to see the Barbie movie.  I didn’t think my son would be too interested, but he was bored so he tagged along.

 

When he got home I asked him how the movie was, and his response was interesting and kind of caught me off guard.

 

He was noticeably a bit miffed, and felt as though the movie really portrayed men in a crappy and unfair way.  He said during one point in the movie when the characters went into the “real world” the men were depicted as misogynistic (my word based on his description) pigs…essentially.

 

He was kind of upset about the whole thing.  Anyway, just sharing the perspective of a very well adjusted, bright, and kind 13 year old boy.  My wife and daughter both enjoyed the movie.

For those that haven't seen Barbie or don't plan to...

The basic premise of the movie is that Barbie lives in perfect Barbie World, where everything is perfect and harmonious between men and women, and everything in life is perfect in general, all the time. Cracks start to show (like Barbie spontaneously pondering the notion of death), and she ends up venturing out into the real world (our world) to try to find answers. 

Once there, she discovers that things are not as harmonious as they are in Barbie World. That men and women do not seem to be on equal footing in society, that sexualization and mistreatment of women seems to happen frequently (for instance, she's cat-called by construction workers, leered at by a few male passers-by, etc), and that the real world features a patriarchal society -- a notion and term with which Barbie was not familiar. She is quite miffed and discouraged by this turn of events, and the movie proceeds from there.

Now, I'm not going to get pulled into a socio-political discussion about this premise or about feminism or the patriarchy. I have no interest in doing so in this setting. I WILL say that I understand why the filmmaker went this route. The Barbie toy line has a long history of promoting the idea that women can do anything, be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, presidents, etc. Even at its inception, it was the first doll for young girls that wasn't a baby doll. It switched the mode of play from "let's pretend to be moms" to "let's pretend to be stylish, beautiful women". It has always pushed a sort of empowerment of women. Having this empowerment butt up against the modern western world is an understandable filmmaking impulse, however you may feel about the specifics.

If you're reading all this and thinking "This doesn't sound like it's for children", you'd be mostly right. There are certainly lots of funny moments, bright colors, identifiable Barbie related sight gags, etc, but I'd imagine a lot of kids, especially young ones, will be bored or lost. Anyone who was familiar with the previous work of Director Greta Gerwig and co-writer Noah Baumbach, though, could have told you that it was going to be a bit weird, reflective, and melancholic. Nevertheless, the filmmakers must have done SOMETHING right, as it has topped $1 Billion at the box office and continues to do well, weekend after weekend. It's a sensation.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Logic

[muppy]

I finally have seen both of these movies. And clearly opinions are subjective so there is that.

 

But I would score the Barbie movie about a 3 out of 10 stars. I found myself rolling my eyes at much of it.  I told hubby walking to the car that it struck me as the kind of movie that could become a cult classic ....Remember the Rocky Horror Picture Show? I hated that movie when I first saw it. It was all the hoopla at midnight screenings and audience participation theater  afterwards that made it more fun for me.

 

I could see there being a Barbie cult group forming. LOL 

 

Oppenheimer on the other hand was LONG but well acted and interesting. One of those movies you see once and very likely never again. I learned a lot from watching it. Solid 8 out of 10

[LeGOATski]

TMNT: Mutant Mayhem was better than both these movies

[boyst]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:50 AM, Logic said:

For those that haven't seen Barbie or don't plan to...

The basic premise of the movie is that Barbie lives in perfect Barbie World, where everything is perfect and harmonious between men and women, and everything in life is perfect in general, all the time. Cracks start to show (like Barbie spontaneously pondering the notion of death), and she ends up venturing out into the real world (our world) to try to find answers. 

Once there, she discovers that things are not as harmonious as they are in Barbie World. That men and women do not seem to be on equal footing in society, that sexualization and mistreatment of women seems to happen frequently (for instance, she's cat-called by construction workers, leered at by a few male passers-by, etc), and that the real world features a patriarchal society -- a notion and term with which Barbie was not familiar. She is quite miffed and discouraged by this turn of events, and the movie proceeds from there.

Now, I'm not going to get pulled into a socio-political discussion about this premise or about feminism or the patriarchy. I have no interest in doing so in this setting. I WILL say that I understand why the filmmaker went this route. The Barbie toy line has a long history of promoting the idea that women can do anything, be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, presidents, etc. Even at its inception, it was the first doll for young girls that wasn't a baby doll. It switched the mode of play from "let's pretend to be moms" to "let's pretend to be stylish, beautiful women". It has always pushed a sort of empowerment of women. Having this empowerment butt up against the modern western world is an understandable filmmaking impulse, however you may feel about the specifics.

If you're reading all this and thinking "This doesn't sound like it's for children", you'd be mostly right. There are certainly lots of funny moments, bright colors, identifiable Barbie related sight gags, etc, but I'd imagine a lot of kids, especially young ones, will be bored or lost. Anyone who was familiar with the previous work of Director Greta Gerwig and co-writer Noah Baumbach, though, could have told you that it was going to be a bit weird, reflective, and melancholic. Nevertheless, the filmmakers must have done SOMETHING right, as it has topped $1 Billion at the box office and continues to do well, weekend after weekend. It's a sensation.

Young girls don't have barbie and never heard of them. The relics of barbie, Disney, etc are the parents and grandparents.

 

Girls don't know these toys. My niece & her friends, other folks I know it has come up. If you're under 15-16 you don't know Barbie as a toy. The name familiarity, sure.

 

Also, Mattel has greenlit over 40 different movie scripts to be done because of the movie.

 

And, the whole feminism in the Western world; I've read European reviews of the film. They were not kind to American ideology and how this film is hypocritical, etc.  Of course this was a few articles (one German, one English).  The view of this movie and it's appeal is very niche and very well carved out.

[teef]

21 hours ago, boyst said:

Young girls don't have barbie and never heard of them. The relics of barbie, Disney, etc are the parents and grandparents.

 

Girls don't know these toys. My niece & her friends, other folks I know it has come up. If you're under 15-16 you don't know Barbie as a toy. The name familiarity, sure.

 

Also, Mattel has greenlit over 40 different movie scripts to be done because of the movie.

 

And, the whole feminism in the Western world; I've read European reviews of the film. They were not kind to American ideology and how this film is hypocritical, etc.  Of course this was a few articles (one German, one English).  The view of this movie and it's appeal is very niche and very well carved out.

my daughter is 8 and she had tons of barbies.  we went to our friends house who has 4 girls under 7 years old, and there were barbies everywhere.

[LeGOATski]

I've never seen a shortage of Barbie stuff in the toy aisle. Definitely still a toy for the current generation

[boyst]

23 minutes ago, teef said:

my daughter is 8 and she had tons of barbies.  we went to our friends house who has 4 girls under 7 years old, and there were barbies everywhere.

that's the first i've heard. i spoke to more people about it - i guess there are some out there.

[teef]

24 minutes ago, boyst said:

that's the first i've heard. i spoke to more people about it - i guess there are some out there.

i certainly don't think it has the same appeal it did years ago, but they still crank that nonsense out.  it even got a bit hipster has barbie can have the van lifestyle now.

[K-9]

Quote

 

In 2019, Mattel's top-selling Barbie was Black and had a short afro.

The diversification has appeared to work. In 2021, Mattel sold 86 million dolls from the Barbie family, which equates to 164 dolls being bought every minute. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-how-barbie-became-most-popular-doll-in-the-world-2023-5#barbies-now-come-in-35-different-skin-tones-with-94-hairstyles-there-are-gender-neutral-barbies-sign-language-barbies-and-barbies-that-use-a-wheelchair-23

[boyst]

17 hours ago, K-9 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-how-barbie-became-most-popular-doll-in-the-world-2023-5#barbies-now-come-in-35-different-skin-tones-with-94-hairstyles-there-are-gender-neutral-barbies-sign-language-barbies-and-barbies-that-use-a-wheelchair-23

wow.

 

Edit: They still don't have a diverse barbie celebrating diabetes and obesity. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited August 15, 2023 by boyst