Hollywood is collapsing

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, unbillievable said:

The rest of world relied on Hollywood to make content in the past...

 

Now Americans will rely on the rest of the world to make content.

 

The success of shows like "Squid Game" should scare these strikers. There are viable studios all over the world now. How long will it take for the Billionaire studio producers to realize they don't need to listen to the Union? They can just take their money overseas.  Netflix already does...

 

Maybe that's why we were getting "Woke" movies. They wanted the public to hate Hollywood so the move overseas to cheaper productions would go smoother.

This is show biz...it's not a conspiracy. but there is plenty of backstabbing from what I've read.  Pretty ruthless.  They'll work it out.

[Doc]

How about a new name for it?  Like "Off-White and the more than 6 but fewer than 8 not-so-tall people"?

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

All valid points.  But I'd add that most of the DEI business decisions at companies are not driven to "make money" but rather to meet some internally and externally measured ESG score.  And the executives that push these actions don't care about profits.  They'll be long gone to their next big career opportunity at another firm or some non-profit organization gig.  Like the executive that parented that Bud Light marketing campaign.  A total disaster for the company but she'll surface somewhere at some point with a big promotion as a reward for pushing the agenda.  If not, why do it?  Out of principal and belief!  Ha, ha.  For the buckeroo's.

 

Otherwise, the remaking of traditional "white" stories into a "people of color" cast with various social undertones has lost its luster at the box office.  It was fresh and new about 15-20 years ago but now its a tired old formula. In this case Snow White is not white.  Did anyone notice?  The movie ticket buying public eventually catches on to these hustles.  Rather than recycling old stories with new casts the writers and script developers in Hollywood should use some of their brain power and imagination to come up with some original content featuring a diverse cast.  That might be a better product that viewers would shell out $20 to see. 

 

The other thing I'd like to mention is the act of "cultural appropriation".  I'm guessing its a one-way street.  It's okay to steal traditionally "white" stories and transform them into stories of diversity.  Nobody screams about that or maybe even realizes the point.  But what if somebody decided to make a Native American movie with all white actors comprising a tribe on the plains or an African tale of Zulu warriors?  I'm sure the outrage meter would go right past 10!   

My simple casting rules (and yes, Disney violates some of them):

- Casting should be race/color blind unless race/color is somehow critical to the story. Othello has to be darker skinned than the non-Moorish characters in that play. It is not "blackface" to take a give a white actor a slightly darker skin tone in order to make the dialogue make sense. It is not critical to the story that The Little Mermaid be white; it is critical that she have red hair. The live action movie tried to do that, but for some weird reason toned down the red hair.

- Casting should be (and here I use a woke term) sexual orientation/gender blind. The history of theater and Hollywood will show that many, many gay actors played straight men. Straight men can play gay actors too. But if it is important to the script that the characters are a straight man and a straight woman in a romantic relationship, well, then the actors have to act. And vice versa. That's what they're paid for. 

With those rules in mind: if you are going to do a live action remake of Snow White, and you still (for whatever historical or marketing reasons) want to call her "Snow White," she probably has to have light skin. No one is stopping you from making a movie based on Snow White that is called, say, The Orphan Princess, and casting a dark-skinned actress in the title role. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

In your example I'm pretty certain the person was chosen for ability.  In the Snow White re-do they were chosen because of their appearance.  That's the point you avoided. 

Thanks for the explanation.  Absolutely no doubt that cast is extremely talented.  A joy to watch and listen to (even for the 3rd time).  But Jesus has not been portrayed by many black actors I can think of.  Most of the paintings and religious art that we are exposed to include a BeeGee's Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes...

Edited July 18, 2023 by redtail hawk

[John from Riverside]

I helicopter parented and actress Daughter for years
 

It’s a tough business, you audition and audition with absolutely no guarantee that you’re going to get the rule. You can make it all the way into a final five and if you get pics, you can actually make some real money but so many different factors play into this like who represent you talent level of course and who you know

The stories of performers getting paid pennies is real. It’s really sad if you make it to the A-list, then you’re making real money.

 

I was Facebooking last night with one of the friends that I made while I was around the business. I would consider him a B list actor always working, but always having to be working in order to pay the bills. What’s happening right now is very sad because people that already we’re not making it are just gonna get pushed that much further down the trough.

 

By the way, if anybody is in contact with deranged rhino, I’d like to know how he’s doing since he’s part of the strike I do consider him a friend

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I helicopter parented and actress Daughter for years
 

It’s a tough business, you audition and audition with absolutely no guarantee that you’re going to get the rule. You can make it all the way into a final five and if you get pics, you can actually make some real money but so many different factors play into this like who represent you talent level of course and who you know

The stories of performers getting paid pennies is real. It’s really sad if you make it to the A-list, then you’re making real money.

 

I was Facebooking last night with one of the friends that I made while I was around the business. I would consider him a B list actor always working, but always having to be working in order to pay the bills. What’s happening right now is very sad because people that already we’re not making it are just gonna get pushed that much further down the trough.

 

By the way, if anybody is in contact with deranged rhino, I’d like to know how he’s doing since he’s part of the strike I do consider him a friend

 

Thanks for sharing that.  Yup.  Starving artists exist.  Many could successfully do many other jobs.  But they love their art.  And that hyper competitive environment seems to be a part of it.  That said, they should be paid a fair and good wage for their talents when they get cast.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I helicopter parented and actress Daughter for years
 

It’s a tough business, you audition and audition with absolutely no guarantee that you’re going to get the rule. You can make it all the way into a final five and if you get pics, you can actually make some real money but so many different factors play into this like who represent you talent level of course and who you know

The stories of performers getting paid pennies is real. It’s really sad if you make it to the A-list, then you’re making real money.

 

I was Facebooking last night with one of the friends that I made while I was around the business. I would consider him a B list actor always working, but always having to be working in order to pay the bills. What’s happening right now is very sad because people that already we’re not making it are just gonna get pushed that much further down the trough.

 

By the way, if anybody is in contact with deranged rhino, I’d like to know how he’s doing since he’s part of the strike I do consider him a friend

 

If your friend is Bill Hader, he was awesome in Barry.  Just finished it last night.  

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

My simple casting rules (and yes, Disney violates some of them):

- Casting should be race/color blind unless race/color is somehow critical to the story. Othello has to be darker skinned than the non-Moorish characters in that play. It is not "blackface" to take a give a white actor a slightly darker skin tone in order to make the dialogue make sense. It is not critical to the story that The Little Mermaid be white; it is critical that she have red hair. The live action movie tried to do that, but for some weird reason toned down the red hair.

- Casting should be (and here I use a woke term) sexual orientation/gender blind. The history of theater and Hollywood will show that many, many gay actors played straight men. Straight men can play gay actors too. But if it is important to the script that the characters are a straight man and a straight woman in a romantic relationship, well, then the actors have to act. And vice versa. That's what they're paid for. 

With those rules in mind: if you are going to do a live action remake of Snow White, and you still (for whatever historical or marketing reasons) want to call her "Snow White," she probably has to have light skin. No one is stopping you from making a movie based on Snow White that is called, say, The Orphan Princess, and casting a dark-skinned actress in the title role. 

Seems reasonable enough.  I'm a big believer in the people producing the movie/production choosing who they want to play the part.  I think people not producing, financing nor contributing to the production beyond observer are welcome to their opinion, but it's mostly irrelevant.  

 

I also think your bias is showing when the dark-skinned actress has to be an orphan.  Plus, orphan's always have red hair and freckles, I think.  

Edited July 18, 2023 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

If your friend is Bill Hader, he was awesome in Barry.  Just finished it last night.  

Seems reasonable enough.  I'm a big believer in the people producing the movie/production choosing who they want to play the part.  I think people not producing, financing nor contributing to the production beyond observer are welcome to their opinion, but it's mostly irrelevant.  

 

I also think your bias is showing when the dark-skinned actress has to be an orphan.  Plus, orphan's always have red hair and freckles, I think.  

His name is Larry cedar both him and his wife are performers

 

Really nice people I met them in Little China. They were doing a funeral scene took all day, but they were very cordial and let me sit next to them and ask questions whenever they weren’t on set.

[Precision]

The 100 best movies of all time according to the American Film Institue.

AFI'S 100 YEARS...100 MOVIES — 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION

 

The 100 best movies of all time according to IMDB.

Top 100 Greatest Movies of All Time (The Ultimate List)

 

How many movies have come out of Hollywood in the last 15 years that made either list?  Zero, that's right with all the movies currently being pumped out not a single movie in the last 15 years made either list of "100 Greatest Movies".  These types of rankings are subjecting but it's clear that the quality of the product coming out of Hollywood has declined.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

His name is Larry cedar both him and his wife are performers

 

Really nice people I met them in Little China. They were doing a funeral scene took all day, but they were very cordial and let me sit next to them and ask questions whenever they weren’t on set.

He was in Deadwood(saw that on his bio), great series.  Always nice when people are nice.  
 

Tell him if he sees Bill Hader, he was awesome in Barry. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

20 minutes ago, Precision said:

The 100 best movies of all time according to the American Film Institue.

AFI'S 100 YEARS...100 MOVIES — 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION

 

The 100 best movies of all time according to IMDB.

Top 100 Greatest Movies of All Time (The Ultimate List)

 

How many movies have come out of Hollywood in the last 15 years that made either list?  Zero, that's right with all the movies currently being pumped out not a single movie in the last 15 years made either list of "100 Greatest Movies".  These types of rankings are subjecting but it's clear that the quality of the product coming out of Hollywood has declined.

Great films.  Probably some ancient critic in silk pajamas writing a list of his favorites.  Lot's of nostalgia.  But his days are done and he doesn't like the new stuff.  There are great artists living and producing right now.  Our collective creativity didn't plummet 20 years ago.

Edited July 18, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

His name is Larry cedar both him and his wife are performers

 

Really nice people I met them in Little China. They were doing a funeral scene took all day, but they were very cordial and let me sit next to them and ask questions whenever they weren’t on set.

Isn't that Leon from Deadwood?

The man played a great heroin addict.

[Wacka]

I had seen bits of the Maltese Falcon (never more than 10 minutes) over the years. Finally one night I sat an watched the whole thing.  I finally realize why it is considered a great movie.  If that's a 10, nothing since 2000 is over a 2.

[Precision]

20 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

Great films.  Probably some ancient critic in silk pajamas writing a list of his favorites.  Lot's of nostalgia.  But his days are done and he doesn't like the new stuff.  There are great artists living and producing right now.  Our collective creativity didn't plummet 20 years ago.

Agreed there is likely some age bias on both lists but I have a hard time thinking of a movie made in the past 10 years that I felt was a "great" movie.  Looking back at the 70's, 80's and 90's there were many movies that I would consider great (not that my opinion means anything). 

 

I believe that at some point Hollywood started focusing more on money and less about Oscar's and the quality of the films.  I feel many of the current movies (particularly Marvel and DC) are rinse and repeat.  The younger crowd is good with that, but I don't find the genre interesting enough to see them in theatre when in a year they'll be streaming.  

 

Would love to see a list of recent movies anyone would recommend.  Some of the movies I would consider classics/favorites....

70's:

Patton

Godfather

Jaws

Apocalypse Now

Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Star Wars

Rocky

 

80's:

ET

Raiders of the Lost Ark (the only good one)

Platoon

Terminator

Back to the Future (the first one)

Ghostbusters

Blade Runner

 

90's:

Sixth Sense

Shawshank

Schindler's List

Forest Gump

Titanic

The Game

Silence of the Lambs

Saving Private Ryan

 

2000's:

Gladiator

Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring

A Beautiful Mind

The Dark Night

Black Hawk Down

 

2010+: 

Interstellar

Moneyball 

The Big Short

??

 

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Precision said:

Agreed there is likely some age bias on both lists but I have a hard time thinking of a movie made in the past 10 years that I felt was a "great" movie.  Looking back at the 70's, 80's and 90's there were many movies that I would consider great (not that my opinion means anything). 

 

I believe that at some point Hollywood started focusing more on money and less about Oscar's and the quality of the films.  I feel many of the current movies (particularly Marvel and DC) are rinse and repeat.  The younger crowd is good with that, but I don't find the genre interesting enough to see them in theatre when in a year they'll be streaming.  

 

Would love to see a list of recent movies anyone would recommend.  Some of the movies I would consider classics/favorites....

70's:

Patton

Godfather

Jaws

Apocalypse Now

Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Star Wars

Rocky

 

80's:

ET

Raiders of the Lost Ark (the only good one)

Platoon

Terminator

Back to the Future (the first one)

Ghostbusters

Blade Runner

 

90's:

Sixth Sense

Shawshank

Schindler's List

Forest Gump

Titanic

The Game

Silence of the Lambs

Saving Private Ryan

 

2000's:

Gladiator

Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring

A Beautiful Mind

The Dark Night

Black Hawk Down

 

2010+: 

Interstellar

Moneyball 

The Big Short

??

 

Hollywood seems to have hit the point where everyone is so focused on appealing to everyone that they don't do anything special. The MCU was entertaining for a while but none of them were truly "great" movies. There has not been a great comedy in probably 15 years, since Tropic Thunder. And I don't see many dramas but most of them seem to have moved to TV.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

How about a new name for it?  Like "Off-White and the more than 6 but fewer than 8 not-so-tall people"?

The term is actually ethnically ambiguous
 

Because my daughter could portray white, Hispanic, even Middle Eastern

[Joe Ferguson forever]

admittedly no competition to trope thunder ... but the worst person in the world looks interesting

https://movieweb.com/funniest-comedy-movies-2022/#everything-everywhere-all-at-once

Everything all at once was pure bs.

It's art.  we all see it differently.   That's good , no?

Edited July 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Big Blitz]

8 hours ago, unbillievable said:

The rest of world relied on Hollywood to make content in the past...

 

Now Americans will rely on the rest of the world to make content.

 

The success of shows like "Squid Game" should scare these strikers. There are viable studios all over the world now. How long will it take for the Billionaire studio producers to realize they don't need to listen to the Union? They can just take their money overseas.  Netflix already does...

 

Maybe that's why we were getting "Woke" movies. They wanted the public to hate Hollywood so the move overseas to cheaper productions would go smoother.

 

The best stuff I’ve seen on Netflix is foreign 

 

Dark is at the top of the list.

46 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Hollywood seems to have hit the point where everyone is so focused on appealing to everyone that they don't do anything special. The MCU was entertaining for a while but none of them were truly "great" movies. There has not been a great comedy in probably 15 years, since Tropic Thunder. And I don't see many dramas but most of them seem to have moved to TV.

 

Comedy is dead.

 

I haven’t seen anything memorably funny on the streams or in theaters maybe since ……. I can’t even remember.   

 

What’s the last good Will Ferrel movie?  

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Precision said:

The 100 best movies of all time according to the American Film Institue. AFI'S 100 YEARS...100 MOVIES — 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION

The 100 best movies of all time according to IMDB.  Top 100 Greatest Movies of All Time (The Ultimate List)

 

How many movies have come out of Hollywood in the last 15 years that made either list?  Zero, that's right with all the movies currently being pumped out not a single movie in the last 15 years made either list of "100 Greatest Movies".  These types of rankings are subjecting but it's clear that the quality of the product coming out of Hollywood has declined.

This first list was created in 2007 .  Sixteen years ago.  The second was created by some random guy named Chris in 2012.  It's pry why no movies in the last 15 years made the top 100 list.

 

Twenty-one movies made in the last 15 years made the top 100 of the IMDB 250 list.  My personal favorites were The Dark Knight, Interstellar, Django Unchained, and Inglorious Basterds.  Big Nolan and Tarantino fan though.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Doc Brown

[Joe Ferguson forever]

38 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

The best stuff I’ve seen on Netflix is foreign 

 

Dark is at the top of the list.

 

Comedy is dead.

 

I haven’t seen anything memorably funny on the streams or in theaters maybe since ……. I can’t even remember.   

 

What’s the last good Will Ferrel movie?  

Try this.  All in good fun!

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 hours ago, Precision said:

Patton

This was pretty damn good

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/all_quiet_on_the_western_front_2022

 

[Precision]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

This first list was created in 2007 .  Sixteen years ago.  The second was created by some random guy named Chris in 2012.  It's pry why no movies in the last 15 years made the top 100 list.

 

Twenty-one movies made in the last 15 years made the top 100 of the IMDB 250 list.  My personal favorites were The Dark Knight, Interstellar, Django Unchained, and Inglorious Basterds.  Big Nolan and Tarantino fan though.

 

What the heck, I made the poor assumption that the lists were at least somewhat updated!  Thanks for correcting my oversight!

[BillStime]

Hollywood is collapsing 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

Hollywood is collapsing 

 

 

interesting marketing. wonder how much google charged for that.  

 

 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

interesting marketing. wonder how much google charged for that.  

 

 

 

But its collapsing. Hollywood is collapsing according to COVID Big Ditz.

 

lolz

 

 

 

[BillStime]

When you have absolutely nothing else to run on:

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

But its collapsing. Hollywood is collapsing according to COVID Big Ditz.

 

lolz

 

 

 

your link only showed Hollywood advertising. 

 

when the numbers come out we will see if it worked.

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

On 7/17/2023 at 6:45 PM, Big Blitz said:

Wokeism will be the main reason - we are going on 5 plus solid years (2 of which they shut down bc of the flu that’s only sped this up) of forcing scripts to include plots and characters that represent the “oppressed.”  Specifically the LGTBYEASSHCRU2plus loons.  

👆🤡👇

 

Same clown

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Very sad that Hollywood isn't producing any good, thought provoking dramas

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/oppenheimer-review-christopher-nolan-cillian-murphy-robert-downey-jr-1235539375/

[BillStime]

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

But its collapsing. Hollywood is collapsing according to COVID Big Ditz.

 

lolz

 

 

 

At the same time, there is an ongoing strike with actors/screenwriters in essence suggesting that absent changes to the system, the end is nigh.   Sometimes it's hard to know exactly when the apocalypse is coming. 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

At the same time, there is an ongoing strike with actors/screenwriters in essence suggesting that absent changes to the system, the end is nigh.   Sometimes it's hard to know exactly when the apocalypse is coming. 

 

BUT HOLLYWOOD IS COLLAPSING.

 

lol

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

BUT HOLLYWOOD IS COLLAPSING.

 

lol

 

That's been established.  The only question is why?

[HomeskillitMoorman]

What's their complaint about Barbie? It's not even out yet. 

[unbillievable]

What happens to a strike when there is no real impact to consumers?

 

Are they willing to strike for a year (or two) waiting for the public to notice diminishing content?

Remember, Covid also shut down all productions and no one really cared, and that is with everyone stuck at home.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by unbillievable

[HomeskillitMoorman]

18 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

What happens to a strike when there is no real impact to consumers?

 

Are they willing to strike for a year (or two) waiting for the public to notice diminishing content?

Remember, Covid also shut down all productions and no one really cared, and that is with everyone stuck at home.

 

 

 

I honestly don't watch a lot of movies anymore but I still really appreciate the good ones when I do catch one. I think it's real that a lot of people don't watch as many movies anymore...but I don't think it's a "woke" thing as much as people in this thread seem to think so. 

 

I hope it resolves itself simply for the really good movies that do make it. Like this Oppenheimer one looks amazing to me, I'll probably get out to the theater for it. Really interesting guy and story and I do generally like Christopher Nolan. 

I don't really buy this whole "they don't make 'em like they used to!" narrative that's attached to all this. There's always been a lot of trash to go along with the good. There's just so many content options outside of movies now that people aren't going to watch something they're not really intrigued by nearly as much. Like how TV sitcoms cratered...because there's better options on the table now. 

 

But yes, like the writer's strike many years ago...I don't know that this will ultimately be a good thing...but I think we were headed down this road regardless. It may change to where it's harder to get a movie green-lit but I do think there's always going to be a demand and crave for good movies that there will be a market for. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[Gregg]

34 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

What happens to a strike when there is no real impact to consumers?

 

Are they willing to strike for a year (or two) waiting for the public to notice diminishing content?

Remember, Covid also shut down all productions and no one really cared, and that is with everyone stuck at home.

 

 

 

That is a good question. I mostly watch sports NFL, CFB, NHL, MLB. When I do watch shows or movies its usually the older ones. Most of today's stuff isn't that good IMHO.

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I think it's real that a lot of people don't watch as many movies anymore...but I don't think it's a "woke" thing as much as people in this thread seem to think so. 

 

Woke has nothing to do with it... Streaming services are killing theaters.

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

BUT HOLLYWOOD IS COLLAPSING.

 

lol

 

Holy smokes BillSy, Media Megamogul and notorious Hollywood bon vivant Barry "Fillith" Diller used nearly those exact words:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/barry-diller-executives-stars-25-percent-pay-cut-strike-1235537951/

 

“What will happen is, if in fact, it doesn’t get settled until Christmas or so, then, next year, there’s not going to be many programs for anybody to watch,” Diller predicted. “So, you’re going to see subscriptions get pulled, which is going to reduce the revenue of all these movie companies, television companies, the result of which is that there will be no programs. And at just the time, strike is settled, that you want to get back up, there won’t be enough money. So this actually will have devastating effects, if it is not settled soon.”

He continued: “The truth is, this [Hollywood] is a huge business both domestically and for world export.… These conditions will potentially produce an absolute collapse of an entire industry.”

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Holy smokes BillSy, Media Megamogul and notorious Hollywood bon vivant Barry "Fillith" Diller used nearly those exact words:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/barry-diller-executives-stars-25-percent-pay-cut-strike-1235537951/

 

“What will happen is, if in fact, it doesn’t get settled until Christmas or so, then, next year, there’s not going to be many programs for anybody to watch,” Diller predicted. “So, you’re going to see subscriptions get pulled, which is going to reduce the revenue of all these movie companies, television companies, the result of which is that there will be no programs. And at just the time, strike is settled, that you want to get back up, there won’t be enough money. So this actually will have devastating effects, if it is not settled soon.”

He continued: “The truth is, this [Hollywood] is a huge business both domestically and for world export.… These conditions will potentially produce an absolute collapse of an entire industry.”

 

OH NO - WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?