Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[vanhalen26]

It’ll be like most new stadiums, first 3-5 years it’s a shiny new toy and people are willing to pay for the experience.  But at the end of the day its just a ‘vehicle’ to host an event and the newness premium fades away.

 

I actually did a study on that for my thesis in university.  Wasn’t terribly deep but clearly a trend that prices shoot up with new venues and slowly come back down over time.

 

No guarantee, but that’s what often happens.

[richNjoisy]

12 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I am just a regular club seat holder that was at the Experience presentation last week. Circumstances were that I ran into the person after me and he is a plumber from Batavia and we played HS football together. He has been a regular club seat holder for a long time. They may also be pitching these to suite holders but not what I observed.

btw - I requested and received the PSL License Agreement because I want my lawyer to review before signing it. It is 27 pages long.

Hey,  can you ask your lawyer if there is any way to have both you and your wife sign the PSL contract? My agent has told me only my name can go on it.

[Mr Info]

37 minutes ago, richNjoisy said:

Hey,  can you ask your lawyer if there is any way to have both you and your wife sign the PSL contract? My agent has told me only my name can go on it.

Ok, I will inquire. 
 

Another item I did not mention in my previous post was my rep told me the virtual seats I viewed at the Experience may no longer be available. It leads me to believe they are doing ok selling new stadium club seats. 

[mrags]

59 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I am just a regular club seat holder that was at the Experience presentation last week. Circumstances were that I ran into the person after me and he is a plumber from Batavia and we played HS football together. He has been a regular club seat holder for a long time. They may also be pitching these to suite holders but not what I observed.

btw - I requested and received the PSL License Agreement because I want my lawyer to review before signing it. It is 27 pages long.

Not saying you aren’t a regular club member. What I’m assuming though, is that your seats are probably pretty close to the 50 yard line. While in the current stadium they are fairly inexpensive, the new 50 yard line club seats are going to be the most expensive in the whole place. And as I mentioned, with half as many box suites as the current stadium, the 50 yard line clubs are going to cost people a lot of money. What suites cost in the current stadium. 
 

what I’m willing to bet, is that club members on the far outside of the clubs, like @Just Jack and myself, the seats being offered won’t be nearly as much. 

I have a question for you since you’ve been to the stadium experience. In the new stadium there will be 200, 300, and 400 levels that all look like heated and covered areas based on the renderings everyone has seen. Is this the case? Did they tell you that 3 levels will be heated and covered? Did they tell you that all 3 levels are considered clubs? Or did they only offer you 1 single section based on where you currently sit now?

 

thanks in advance. 

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

With the new law NY state approved, I do wonder how much it will effect the secondary market. If they really crack down on people re-selling their tickets it change things. 

 

 

I don’t see how it’s legal to do that. It’s an irs issue not sure how much of a right NYS has there. But as I’ve said before, just because they might try and police it, you don’t have to sell on secondary markets. You could just “gift” them to a friend. And that friend just happens to ”gift” you $1000 cash. Not sure there is anything they could do about it at that point. 

[Jrb1979]

13 minutes ago, mrags said:

Not saying you aren’t a regular club member. What I’m assuming though, is that your seats are probably pretty close to the 50 yard line. While in the current stadium they are fairly inexpensive, the new 50 yard line club seats are going to be the most expensive in the whole place. And as I mentioned, with half as many box suites as the current stadium, the 50 yard line clubs are going to cost people a lot of money. What suites cost in the current stadium. 
 

what I’m willing to bet, is that club members on the far outside of the clubs, like @Just Jack and myself, the seats being offered won’t be nearly as much. 

I have a question for you since you’ve been to the stadium experience. In the new stadium there will be 200, 300, and 400 levels that all look like heated and covered areas based on the renderings everyone has seen. Is this the case? Did they tell you that 3 levels will be heated and covered? Did they tell you that all 3 levels are considered clubs? Or did they only offer you 1 single section based on where you currently sit now?

 

thanks in advance. 

I don’t see how it’s legal to do that. It’s an irs issue not sure how much of a right NYS has there. But as I’ve said before, just because they might try and police it, you don’t have to sell on secondary markets. You could just “gift” them to a friend. And that friend just happens to ”gift” you $1000 cash. Not sure there is anything they could do about it at that point. 

They could do that. I also think the teams need to start stepping in like the Giants and Broncos did. If you sell more than half of your tickets they revoke them from you. 

 

I think it's a joke that season ticket holders sell as many as they do. 

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They could do that. I also think the teams need to start stepping in like the Giants and Broncos did. If you sell more than half of your tickets they revoke them from you. 

 

I think it's a joke that season ticket holders sell as many as they do. 

Well, as a STH that has historically went to almost every game since 2006 but started selling some seats the last few years. I guess I’ll sell 1 game a year and find someone to “give my tickets” to for any other games I just cannot attend because of work purposes. 
 

fwiw, even the irs changed their rules on secondary market ticket sales. Unless you received more than $5k profit it was not needed to be included in taxes this year. 

Edited March 24 by mrags

[Mr Info]

6 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

They could do that. I also think the teams need to start stepping in like the Giants and Broncos did. If you sell more than half of your tickets they revoke them from you. 

 

I think it's a joke that season ticket holders sell as many as they do. 

The senior rep at my Experience said the Bills no longer care how many tix you sell as a STH or PSL owner. Everything is done electronically so, for example, the Bills will vet who you sell your PSL before approval. Whoever purchases your tickets are responsible for misbehavior or issues not the PSL owner. He actually told me of an earlier club seat STH who went through the Experience and only plans to re-sell their seats.

[Mr Info]

56 minutes ago, mrags said:

Not saying you aren’t a regular club member. What I’m assuming though, is that your seats are probably pretty close to the 50 yard line. While in the current stadium they are fairly inexpensive, the new 50 yard line club seats are going to be the most expensive in the whole place. And as I mentioned, with half as many box suites as the current stadium, the 50 yard line clubs are going to cost people a lot of money. What suites cost in the current stadium. 
 

what I’m willing to bet, is that club members on the far outside of the clubs, like @Just Jack and myself, the seats being offered won’t be nearly as much. 

I have a question for you since you’ve been to the stadium experience. In the new stadium there will be 200, 300, and 400 levels that all look like heated and covered areas based on the renderings everyone has seen. Is this the case? Did they tell you that 3 levels will be heated and covered? Did they tell you that all 3 levels are considered clubs? Or did they only offer you 1 single section based on where you currently sit now?

 

My current clubs are in the Pepsi club on the 35 yd line. What I saw at the Experience was that all Founder, East, and Field clubs were priced the same no matter the location in that particular club. The only covered and heated clubs are East (and Founder) but no other seats are heated elsewhere in the stadium. Field clubs are not covered nor heated.

Edited March 24 by Mr Info

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

The senior rep at my Experience said the Bills no longer care how many tix you sell as a STH or PSL owner. Everything is done electronically so, for example, the Bills will vet who you sell your PSL before approval. Whoever purchases your tickets are responsible for misbehavior or issues not the PSL owner. He actually told me of an earlier club seat STH who went through the Experience and only plans to re-sell their seats.

IMO that is wrong. I don't get the point of buying tickets if all you are doing is to profit off then. I always thought the point of being a season ticket holder was you were a fan of team. Now it's all about how much money you can make off them. 

21 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well, as a STH that has historically went to almost every game since 2006 but started selling some seats the last few years. I guess I’ll sell 1 game a year and find someone to “give my tickets” to for any other games I just cannot attend because of work purposes. 
 

fwiw, even the irs changed their rules on secondary market ticket sales. Unless you received more than $5k profit it was not needed to be included in taxes this year. 

I can understand selling tickets if you can't make the game. To go into the season with the plan of going to 1-2 games and selling the rest I see as a problem. 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO that is wrong. I don't get the point of buying tickets if all you are doing is to profit off then. I always thought the point of being a season ticket holder was you were a fan of team. Now it's all about how much money you can make off them. 

I can understand selling tickets if you can't make the game. To go into the season with the plan of going to 1-2 games and selling the rest I see as a problem. 

Well, I hate to say it, but that is a you problem. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it correct. I’m not trying to be a dick here. I’m simply stating that people have a right to sell their seats as long as it’s allowed. According to the IRS, so long as you don’t profit over 5k they don’t care. This was never the case before this year. Last year I didn’t sell any seats, but my tax guy specifically asked me if I had received any funds for tickets. This year it’s different. That’s why I’m saying don’t think NYS can legally put a law into place for selling or giving away your tickets. Unless you are a business and are specifically looking for only profit. In that case it’s a tax issue.
 

Yes I agree and they are trying to smoke out the scalpers and brokers. Here’s the thing. Scalpers are nothing more than local gangs selling tickets. I see them every game. It’s a huge Blood business, no different from them selling stolen or counterfeit Bills gear on the sidewalks or in the tailgate sections. They aren’t exactly working under the blanket of laws and regulations anyway so good luck trying to stop them. 
 

as far as concerning brokers, it’s  a business. A lot of These people actually do this legally and under the laws and regulations of the irs, local, and national laws. There is nothing against selling a ticket to an event so long as you document any profits that you incur. Honestly, I’m not so sure that teams themselves don’t buy their own tickets and then sell them for higher profits on the secondary market. Of course there’s probably some legal issues there but these are billionaires after all. With unlimited resources. Unlimited bank accounts. And likely multiple ghost companies that they can maneuver around to do it. 
 

in getting a little conspiracy theorist for this thread here. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that the IRS does not care (at this point in time) that you profit from selling tickets as long as it doesn’t net you more than $5k/yr. The brokers will have problems with this. The local STHs that would like to attend a few games a year and sell the rest most likely will not be affected. 

[Jrb1979]

31 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well, I hate to say it, but that is a you problem. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it correct. I’m not trying to be a dick here. I’m simply stating that people have a right to sell their seats as long as it’s allowed. According to the IRS, so long as you don’t profit over 5k they don’t care. This was never the case before this year. Last year I didn’t sell any seats, but my tax guy specifically asked me if I had received any funds for tickets. This year it’s different. That’s why I’m saying don’t think NYS can legally put a law into place for selling or giving away your tickets. Unless you are a business and are specifically looking for only profit. In that case it’s a tax issue.
 

Yes I agree and they are trying to smoke out the scalpers and brokers. Here’s the thing. Scalpers are nothing more than local gangs selling tickets. I see them every game. It’s a huge Blood business, no different from them selling stolen or counterfeit Bills gear on the sidewalks or in the tailgate sections. They aren’t exactly working under the blanket of laws and regulations anyway so good luck trying to stop them. 
 

as far as concerning brokers, it’s  a business. A lot of These people actually do this legally and under the laws and regulations of the irs, local, and national laws. There is nothing against selling a ticket to an event so long as you document any profits that you incur. Honestly, I’m not so sure that teams themselves don’t buy their own tickets and then sell them for higher profits on the secondary market. Of course there’s probably some legal issues there but these are billionaires after all. With unlimited resources. Unlimited bank accounts. And likely multiple ghost companies that they can maneuver around to do it. 
 

in getting a little conspiracy theorist for this thread here. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that the IRS does not care (at this point in time) that you profit from selling tickets as long as it doesn’t net you more than $5k/yr. The brokers will have problems with this. The local STHs that would like to attend a few games a year and sell the rest most likely will not be affected. 

My point has nothing to do with the IRS or any of that. My point is back in the Rockpile days people bought season tickets cause they were a fan and to see their team. Sometime between then and now it's all about how much money can you profit off them. 

[NobesBLO13]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:57 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I have a question. I’m all for a detailed bison. But do we need to have giant bison balls hanging?

 

 

Yes

[That's No Moon]

9 hours ago, Mr Info said:

Ok, I will inquire. 
 

Another item I did not mention in my previous post was my rep told me the virtual seats I viewed at the Experience may no longer be available. It leads me to believe they are doing ok selling new stadium club seats. 

You expect them to tell you the equivalent of "plenty of good seats still available"? Of course they will try to cause some urgency for you to sign.

On 3/8/2024 at 10:57 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I have a question. I’m all for a detailed bison. But do we need to have giant bison balls hanging?

 

 

They should be bigger.

[Wacka]

Vaant lots  near the stadium are being cleared. It doesn't happen instantaneously. Southwestern  Blvd from  OP Road to  McKinley was all tree filled  vacant lots back in 1973. Now it is totally developed. Why do you suppose the McKinley Mall was placed there?

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Wacka said:

Vaant lots  near the stadium are being cleared. It doesn't happen instantaneously. Southwestern  Blvd from  OP Road to  McKinley was all tree filled  vacant lots back in 1973. Now it is totally developed. Why do you suppose the McKinley Mall was placed there?

It’s also why McKinley mall will end up shuttering completely and they will rebuild it like they are planning with both the Blvd mall and eastern hills malls. A city center with restaurants, shops, parks, apartments, and likely some hotel space. Being that close to the stadium as well as the 90 it’s a no brainer. I can see Pegula spending some serious cash to help develop that in the very near future. 

[Just Jack]

8 hours ago, mrags said:

It’s also why McKinley mall will end up shuttering completely and they will rebuild it like they are planning with both the Blvd mall and eastern hills malls. A city center with restaurants, shops, parks, apartments, and likely some hotel space. Being that close to the stadium as well as the 90 it’s a no brainer. I can see Pegula spending some serious cash to help develop that in the very near future. 

 

They are doing that with two of the malls in my area. One is supposed to start construction this fall, the other is being held up by two property owners that may go to eminent domain.  

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

They are doing that with two of the malls in my area. One is supposed to start construction this fall, the other is being held up by two property owners that may go to eminent domain.  

It’s happening everywhere. 2 malls in Amherst/Williamsville are already greenlit for the projects. The McKinley mall within a mile of the stadium I guarantee will be the next in line. Once the stadium is complete, if it’s not already in the works. Someone with enough money for the project will definitely want to capitalize on it. If it doesn’t happen I’d be shocked. 

[PBF81]

20 hours ago, Mr Info said:

Ok, I will inquire. 
 

Another item I did not mention in my previous post was my rep told me the virtual seats I viewed at the Experience may no longer be available. It leads me to believe they are doing ok selling new stadium club seats. 

 

Either that or it's a takeaway.  May no longer be available.    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

Whatever's going on, there are plenty of PO'd current STHs.  There are now groups on facebook and it's rare to read something positive from them about this entire situation.  Here people are complaining too, reasonably so.  

 

The Stadium has essentially been turned over to be owned and more importantly run by an out-of-state company that has no empathy for WNY Bills fans and current STHs.  They're going to do whatever they need to do in order to sell STs and they obviously don't care about seniority.  

 

Who knows who's going to ultimately buy the PSLs/STs, but in one of the forums it was posed that going to the road games may be less expensive than going to home games, the thought of which is disheartening.  

 

 

[plenzmd1]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:17 AM, mrags said:

I’m a club seat holder and I was told it will be a few months before I get called. You’re gonna have to wait until probably after the summer until non club seat members get the call. Maybe later. 

As @Just Jack and I have talked about. These club seats they are offering right now with the absolutely ridiculous prices are basically their answer to the smaller suite holders that are in the current stadium. There’s going to me half as many suites, the club seats with even 20k PSLs will be more like the smaller/lesser suites in the current stadium. The every day Joe that has clubs seats like me and @Just Jack aren’t their target audience right now. They’ll get to us with their options later and it won’t be 15-20k for those PSLs. IMO. 

I am in 135(25 yd line), i am guessing(hoping )sometime early to late fall for us. Those lower bowl sections are huge , and plenty of folks with 30-40 years seniority up before me in those sections. Pretty sure there will still be seats when I get there. 

 

Prolly not the aisle seat though...that's gunna be the real bummer. Love my aisle seats! 

[ProcessTruster]

20 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO that is wrong. I don't get the point of buying tickets if all you are doing is to profit off then. I always thought the point of being a season ticket holder was you were a fan of team. Now it's all about how much money you can make off them. 

I can understand selling tickets if you can't make the game. To go into the season with the plan of going to 1-2 games and selling the rest I see as a problem. 

Agreed, it is a problem, but this problem comes with the territory.  Everyone knew this was coming.   Build a $1.7B frankly unnecessary stadium in a tier 3 economy , charge $20k PSL, jack up the ticket prices and expect minimal resale?  In f ing WNY?   Unrealistic. 

 

I live in the DC area and go to Bills games in DC, Balto and NYC and 25%+ of the stands are Bills fans, and PSLs and sky high ticket prices are part of the reason.  Expect this to start happening in Orchard Park in a couple years; where the stadium is not all Bills fans, but you'll have 10-15k fans of the opposition, just like it is everywhere else where fancy new, wildly expensive PSL stadiums exist.   The pure "bills mafia" experience in WNY will die.  Just like when the Leafs play the Sabres in B Lo.   Its all Leafs fans in the lower bowl.

 

But hey , the Bills have a fancy new stadium like the big city teams.  Gee, that's terrific, now you get to sit next to a randomly rotating set of fans of the team you are playing.   Great.   

 

Sad, really. 

Edited March 25 by ProcessTruster