Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[billsfanmiamioh]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

This is a good reminder that the Pegulas shared a slide to all PSE employees that read “family lifestyle and taxes” as their expectations for their investments. 
 

 

In all the times I’ve seen this referenced, I don’t think I’ve ever read a firsthand report from a PSE employee on how exactly it was presented. Sure from that graphic alone it seems “out of touch” but what was the context and tone? Was it in fact presented to the entire PSE organization? Was it something openly discussed in the meeting? Was it just a piece of information thrown on a slide that was stating the obvious but never even talked about? I think the answers to those questions would be important information to know before getting the pitchforks out. 
 
Shouldn't exactly be shocking that billionaires expect an ROI that will allow them to maintain their lifestyle.  I’m nowhere near a billionaire but any type of long term strategic planning that impacts finances (what doesn’t?), maintaining “quality of life” is certainly near the top of the list of considerations. 
 

I’d really like to know if the tone of this whole thing was “get your act together so we can keep the yacht fueled up” or if it’s just the typical mob mentality demonizing. 

[Breakout Squad]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

He was a hero for outbidding Bon Jovi/Trump on the Bills. In theory the only thing holding the Sabres back from an early 2000’s dynasty was Golisano’s willingness to spend on Briere and Drury and Pegula came in and said “Hockey Heaven”.

 

That grace period has ended and he gets judged for the work he’s doing. 

I love that Pegula bought the Bills. He kept them here and for that I’m forever grateful. 
 

The Sabres are embarrassing. No FA wants to sign in Buffalo. How is Granato still coach? Because he’s well spoken and the players like him? No playoffs yet again with consistently rising ticket and concession prices. 

[Mango]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Well Adams and Granato are going to extend their tenures next year.

What does this mean? They’ll make the playoffs, or miss a 5th year in a row?

 

Also didn’t Adams already “extend their tenure” a season or two ago for no real reason? 

9 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

In all the times I’ve seen this referenced, I don’t think I’ve ever read a firsthand report from a PSE employee on how exactly it was presented. Sure from that graphic alone it seems “out of touch” but what was the context and tone? Was it in fact presented to the entire PSE organization? Was it something openly discussed in the meeting? Was it just a piece of information thrown on a slide that was stating the obvious but never even talked about? I think the answers to those questions would be important information to know before getting the pitchforks out. 
 
Shouldn't exactly be shocking that billionaires expect an ROI that will allow them to maintain their lifestyle.  I’m nowhere near a billionaire but any type of long term strategic planning that impacts finances (what doesn’t?), maintaining “quality of life” is certainly near the top of the list of considerations. 
 

I’d really like to know if the tone of this whole thing was “get your act together so we can keep the yacht fueled up” or if it’s just the typical mob mentality demonizing. 

They shared a building with Labatt for a while, I’d start kicking around there if you’re curious.

 

Have you read the Athletic article? Tim Graham quoted a few people, albeit anonymously.

 

There is zero good context for that slide. It’s baffling. 

[ScotSHO]

13 hours ago, Mango said:

This is a good reminder that the Pegulas shared a slide to all PSE employees that read “family lifestyle and taxes” as their expectations for their investments. 
 

 

That is a bad xerox, please screenshot the original.  And get me someone while I'm waiting.

[Mango]

52 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

That is a bad xerox, please screenshot the original.  And get me someone while I'm waiting.

 

I don't know why this is hard to believe. It was a huge story in the sports world. Outside of Buffalo and outside of the NHL. 

Look at the Sabres, Terry Pegula is literally the worst owner the NHL has ever seen. EVER! There is not another franchise under any ownership that has been as dismal as a Terry Pegula lead hockey team for the last 10 years+. Not one. 

 

Terry saved the Bills from Toronto. But he also ruined the Sabres and has had 2 high level hires walk out on him in very short order. I know Lafontaine and Marrone or ash holes. But there are only a couple dozen HC/POH roles in the world, you almost never hear of anybody quitting, let alone 2. If Pegula ever moves on from Brandon Bean in the post Josh Allen era he will ruin the Bills too. 

https://theathletic.com/1758235/2020/04/20/as-pegulas-face-business-challenges-employees-describe-a-toxic-culture-at-pse/

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

What does this mean? They’ll make the playoffs, or miss a 5th year in a row?

 

Also didn’t Adams already “extend their tenure” a season or two ago for no real reason? 

 

But they also made small gains every year, so they aren't getting fired. Pegula has rode the coach/GM carousel long enough to know that having a trigger firing finger doesn't work. 

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But they also made small gains every year, so they aren't getting fired. Pegula has rode the coach/GM carousel long enough to know that having a trigger firing finger doesn't work. 

I am not the greatest advanced metrics guy on the hockey side, but people smarter than me have used them to point out that UPL is carrying the load of this team by himself, the defense hasn’t been any better, and they’ve been attempting to go all in on offense like last year since December.

 

Certainly take that with a grain of salt. But the eye test says the team this year has been consistently worse at just about everything other than one goaltender.
 

Mitts commenting twice about how hard/fast Colorado practices, Maurice mentioning that they “do things differently”  and can get some my physiology out of Okposo, with Tuch saying “if you watch the games we play hard”  is a very bad and embarrassing look.  

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

I am not the greatest advanced metrics guy on the hockey side, but people smarter than me have used them to point out that UPL is carrying the load of this team by himself, the defense hasn’t been any better, and they’ve been attempting to go all in on offense like last year since December.

 

Certainly take that with a grain of salt. But the eye test says the team this year has been consistently worse at just about everything other than one goaltender.
 

Mitts commenting twice about how hard/fast Colorado practices, Maurice mentioning that they “do things differently”  and can get some my physiology out of Okposo, with Tuch saying “if you watch the games we play hard”  is a very bad and embarrassing look.  

 

That is incorrect. The defense has improved greatly. UPL has been great too but it's not all one, it's both. What failed this year is the scoring from last year but even that's picking up now. Could be injuries. But the the big thing is the improvement in defense and finding a #1 goalie. You need that to be a playoff team. So the hope is next year will be the year. If not, then we can talk about coaching/GM changes. At least you would have given Adams and Granato a long chance.

[That's No Moon]

27 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That is incorrect. The defense has improved greatly. UPL has been great too but it's not all one, it's both. What failed this year is the scoring from last year but even that's picking up now. Could be injuries. But the the big thing is the improvement in defense and finding a #1 goalie. You need that to be a playoff team. So the hope is next year will be the year. If not, then we can talk about coaching/GM changes. At least you would have given Adams and Granato a long chance.

They are wildly inconsistent and the veteran players who are supposed to be there to steady a young team are some of the worst offenders of up and down effort, dumb penalties, stupid plays, etc.  About a week ago Tuch made one of the worst plays I've seen in hockey.  It was Squirt C level bad and he's supposed to be a veteran leader of the team.

 

The power play is absolute dog water and that's on Ellis because they have plenty of firepower to have a good PP.

 

It's the coaches' job to get the most out of the players and that hasn't happened.  It's on the GM to give the staff all the pieces they need to compete and that hasn't happened either.  It's an absolute clown show, top to bottom.

[mrags]

Isn’t there a Sabres message board? Why is this in the stadium construction thread? 

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, mrags said:

Isn’t there a Sabres message board? Why is this in the stadium construction thread? 

 

Speaking of stadium construction, I looked at the Bufnews piece and comments on the PSLs and they're taking a beating.  

 

The next month or two is going to be very interesting.  

 

 

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Speaking of stadium construction, I looked at the Bufnews piece and comments on the PSLs and they're taking a beating.  

 

The next month or two is going to be very interesting.  

 

 

The real fun will start when the next round of people get brought in for the non "Club" seating.  I don't think that will be in a month or two.

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

The real fun will start when the next round of people get brought in for the non "Club" seating.  I don't think that will be in a month or two.

I’m a club seat holder and I was told it will be a few months before I get called. You’re gonna have to wait until probably after the summer until non club seat members get the call. Maybe later. 

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Speaking of stadium construction, I looked at the Bufnews piece and comments on the PSLs and they're taking a beating.  

 

The next month or two is going to be very interesting.  

 

 

As @Just Jack and I have talked about. These club seats they are offering right now with the absolutely ridiculous prices are basically their answer to the smaller suite holders that are in the current stadium. There’s going to me half as many suites, the club seats with even 20k PSLs will be more like the smaller/lesser suites in the current stadium. The every day Joe that has clubs seats like me and @Just Jack aren’t their target audience right now. They’ll get to us with their options later and it won’t be 15-20k for those PSLs. IMO. 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, mrags said:

As @Just Jack and I have talked about. These club seats they are offering right now with the absolutely ridiculous prices are basically their answer to the smaller suite holders that are in the current stadium. There’s going to me half as many suites, the club seats with even 20k PSLs will be more like the smaller/lesser suites in the current stadium. The every day Joe that has clubs seats like me and @Just Jack aren’t their target audience right now. They’ll get to us with their options later and it won’t be 15-20k for those PSLs. IMO. 

 

No doubt.  They're still going to price people out though.  Many of the people commenting appear to simply be fed up with the overall situation and are already preempting it.  They're not club level STHs.  

 

I haven't been a STH in years, and there's nothing like going to a live game, but when paying for live games means dropping money that could go towards other significant expenses or leisure options besides a few hours, that's when things change for me.  

 

Love the Bills, but it's not a religion and if my status as a fan becomes determined by how much money I drop to go see them, well, something's amiss.

 

Other than for an occasional aftermarket ticket purchase for myself and whomever wants to go with me to a good game, I'm fine with watching on TV either at home or at a Bills Backers bar.  I mean heck, for less than a hundred bucks I can eat and drink myself silly at a BB bar.  

 

IDK, seems as if it's all gotten out of hand the last decade or two.  

 

It's a business, but the cost for the live product has simply gotten to the point where I'd rather do other things with my money.  And that's apart from the fact that I would never pay a PSL merely on principle regardless of the cost.  

 

 

Edited March 24 by PBF81

[mrags]

19 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

No doubt.  They're still going to price people out though.  Many of the people commenting appear to simply be fed up with the overall situation and are already preempting it.  They're not club level STHs.  

 

I haven't been a STH in years, and there's nothing like going to a live game, but when paying for live games means dropping money that could go towards other significant expenses or leisure options besides a few hours, that's when things change for me.  

 

Love the Bills, but it's not a religion and if my status as a fan becomes determined by how much money I drop to go see them, well, something's amiss.

 

Other than for an occasional aftermarket ticket purchase for myself and whomever wants to go with me to a good game, I'm fine with watching on TV either at home or at a Bills Backers bar.  I mean heck, for less than a hundred bucks I can eat and drink myself silly at a BB bar.  

 

IDK, seems as if it's all gotten out of hand the last decade or two.  

 

It's a business, but the cost for the live product has simply gotten to the point where I'd rather do other things with my money.  And that's apart from the fact that I would never pay a PSL merely on principle regardless of the cost.  

 

 

Yeah I know quite a few people personally that have opted to rescind their season tix. Along with hundreds of others that I see on social media, etc. 

 

100% agree. I can afford the tix now easily. It’s nothing to me really to buy the tix since 2006. When I moved into the clubs it was a bigger nut but it’s still not horrendous. 
 

they kind of are like a religion to many in the area. It’s a place of worship almost on Sundays. Let’s face it, many or most of us plan our lives and obligations around the Bills. 
 

Aftermarket may be the way to go for people with the new stadium. I feel like those bucking up for PSLs will make some money off the secondary markets if they choose to incur that huge nut off the top. But eventually it’ll pay off for them. 
 

it has 100% gotten out of hand. It’s not the good old days anymore. Technology, inflation, crippling debt, you name it. Things are not close to as simple as they used to be. 
 

I agree on the cost. It’s why i am open to what all the seats are going to cost in the new place. We’re seeing the most expensive seats and psls now that there will be in the stadium. There will surely be more affordable seats. Probably cheaper than what I pay now (minus the PSL). And I’m open to that. But like I said many times before. If I’m going to pay thousands more, I want to be comfortable while I do it. If I’m going to be wet and freezing my @$$ off while paying more than I do now, I’ll just stay home. It’s one of the reasons why I wanted a dome. You could be in the cheapest seat in the house and still be comfortable. 
 

we’ll see how things play out. It’s the early stages of the whole process. 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yeah I know quite a few people personally that have opted to rescind their season tix. Along with hundreds of others that I see on social media, etc. 

 

100% agree. I can afford the tix now easily. It’s nothing to me really to buy the tix since 2006. When I moved into the clubs it was a bigger nut but it’s still not horrendous. 
 

they kind of are like a religion to many in the area. It’s a place of worship almost on Sundays. Let’s face it, many or most of us plan our lives and obligations around the Bills. 
 

Aftermarket may be the way to go for people with the new stadium. I feel like those bucking up for PSLs will make some money off the secondary markets if they choose to incur that huge nut off the top. But eventually it’ll pay off for them. 
 

it has 100% gotten out of hand. It’s not the good old days anymore. Technology, inflation, crippling debt, you name it. Things are not close to as simple as they used to be. 
 

I agree on the cost. It’s why i am open to what all the seats are going to cost in the new place. We’re seeing the most expensive seats and psls now that there will be in the stadium. There will surely be more affordable seats. Probably cheaper than what I pay now (minus the PSL). And I’m open to that. But like I said many times before. If I’m going to pay thousands more, I want to be comfortable while I do it. If I’m going to be wet and freezing my @$$ off while paying more than I do now, I’ll just stay home. It’s one of the reasons why I wanted a dome. You could be in the cheapest seat in the house and still be comfortable. 
 

we’ll see how things play out. It’s the early stages of the whole process. 

 

Well summed up!

 

 

[LabattBlue]

IMO the secondary ticket market is going to EXPLODE when the new stadium opens.  People who forego their seasons because of the cost, may end up doing the same while attempting the single game secondary market route. 

[mrags]

39 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

IMO the secondary ticket market is going to EXPLODE when the new stadium opens.  People who forego their seasons because of the cost, may end up doing the same while attempting the single game secondary market route. 

Agree 100%. I’d say secondary market has more than doubled in the last 4-5 years. I expect it to at least double when the new stadium is built. At least for a while. Like I’ve been saying, as long as Allen is out QB we have a shot to win every game. He’s one of the most exciting players in the nfl. People will pay to see it. Not to mention the new stadium that will attract a lot of attention. 

[Mr Info]

10 hours ago, mrags said:

I’m a club seat holder and I was told it will be a few months before I get called. You’re gonna have to wait until probably after the summer until non club seat members get the call. Maybe later. 

As @Just Jack and I have talked about. These club seats they are offering right now with the absolutely ridiculous prices are basically their answer to the smaller suite holders that are in the current stadium. There’s going to me half as many suites, the club seats with even 20k PSLs will be more like the smaller/lesser suites in the current stadium. The every day Joe that has clubs seats like me and @Just Jack aren’t their target audience right now. They’ll get to us with their options later and it won’t be 15-20k for those PSLs. IMO. 

I am just a regular club seat holder that was at the Experience presentation last week. Circumstances were that I ran into the person after me and he is a plumber from Batavia and we played HS football together. He has been a regular club seat holder for a long time. They may also be pitching these to suite holders but not what I observed.

btw - I requested and received the PSL License Agreement because I want my lawyer to review before signing it. It is 27 pages long.

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Agree 100%. I’d say secondary market has more than doubled in the last 4-5 years. I expect it to at least double when the new stadium is built. At least for a while. Like I’ve been saying, as long as Allen is out QB we have a shot to win every game. He’s one of the most exciting players in the nfl. People will pay to see it. Not to mention the new stadium that will attract a lot of attention. 

With the new law NY state approved, I do wonder how much it will effect the secondary market. If they really crack down on people re-selling their tickets it change things.