McDermott hammers point about Allen running less and sliding. Says it MUST change next year...

[ddaryl]

46 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said:

Know what happens when you take a player like Josh Allen and continuously send the message "stop being a gunslinger, start sliding, play it safe safe safe"?  You get the the playoff game against the Bengals.  Allen got bombarded with that messaging by the media, fans and coaching staff in the days and weeks leading up to that game and we all know the result.  Looked flat. Took no chances to the point where Diggs called him out on it. 

 

Let Josh be Josh. 

 

 

That was not the issue...  and I seriously doubt that was what was going through Allens head at the time...

There was a lot of presusre on JA during the game

Here is some play by play facts . Josh went for 3-9 when passing deep against Cincinnatti... To add insult to injury Josh was our leading rusher with 8 carries for 26 YDs.  really doesn't sound like there was much support for Josh from the run game, the OL and WRs actually getting open.

The honest deduction is we got our asses handed to us by a team that had a better game plan and more reliable weapons .
 

3rd & 4 at BUF 30

(10:17 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to S.Diggs. Pressure on QB: 58-J.Ossai.
 

2nd & 16 at CIN 27

(9:32 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to K.Shakir pushed ob at CIN 4 for 23 yards (J.Bates) [B.Hill].
 

1st & 10 at BUF 34

(1:11 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep left to G.Davis pushed ob at CIN 41 for 25 yards (V.Bell).
 

1st & 10 at CIN 20

(9:55 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs. BUF-S.Diggs was injured during the play. His return is Probable. 14-S.Diggs walks off.

1st & 10 at BUF 12

(1:11 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs.

 

3rd & 2 at BUF 20

(0:17 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to G.Davis (C.Taylor-Britt).

 

1st & 10 at BUF 25

(11:22 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep left to D.Knox to CIN 43 for 32 yards (E.Apple).

 

1st & 10 at CIN 43

(10:53 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right. Thrown away under pressure from 21-M.Hilton.
 

4th & 6 at CIN 16

(7:32 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to G.Davis (E.Apple) [S.Hubbard

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree if you can give him better protection and more weapons he will see the need to run less. But it isn't just volume. It is about being smart when he runs. It is about getting down. And whether Josh runs once a game or 5 times a game when he takes off he is going to fight for every inch. He has said it himself... he likes getting hit it get him going. I don't think he is ever gonna ba a "see the first down marker and get down" guy. The competitor in him is always going to risk a hit for an extra yard. And honestly if you take that out of him is he the same guy? 

 

It is just a reality we are going to have to learn to live with IMO. Though no doubt getting a better supporting cast might at least reduce the volume.

 

I dunno, Gunner. 

 

Last season Josh was pulling ***** he hadn't pulled since his rookie year and somewhat his 2nd season.  Hurdling guys, trucking guys.  It was like someone took the governor off his engine.  He was not doing that stuff in 2020 and 2021 to the same degree.

 

I think he must have finished the season bruised and beaten to hell, and it hindered him, and he and McDermott both know it. 

 

I don't think you'll take it out of him entirely, but I don't see why he can't at least go back to what he was doing in 2020.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

That was not the issue...  and I seriously doubt that was what was going through Allens head at the time...

There was a lot of presusre on JA during the game

Here is some play by play facts . Josh went for 3-9 when passing deep against Cincinnatti... To add insult to injury Josh was our leading rusher with 8 carries for 26 YDs.  really doesn't sound like there was much support for Josh from the run game, the OL and WRs actually getting open.

The honest deduction is we got our asses handed to us by a team that had a better game plan and more reliable weapons .
 

3rd & 4 at BUF 30

(10:17 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to S.Diggs. Pressure on QB: 58-J.Ossai.
 

2nd & 16 at CIN 27

(9:32 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to K.Shakir pushed ob at CIN 4 for 23 yards (J.Bates) [B.Hill].
 

1st & 10 at BUF 34

(1:11 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep left to G.Davis pushed ob at CIN 41 for 25 yards (V.Bell).
 

1st & 10 at CIN 20

(9:55 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs. BUF-S.Diggs was injured during the play. His return is Probable. 14-S.Diggs walks off.

1st & 10 at BUF 12

(1:11 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs.

 

3rd & 2 at BUF 20

(0:17 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to G.Davis (C.Taylor-Britt).

 

1st & 10 at BUF 25

(11:22 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep left to D.Knox to CIN 43 for 32 yards (E.Apple).

 

1st & 10 at CIN 43

(10:53 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right. Thrown away under pressure from 21-M.Hilton.
 

4th & 6 at CIN 16

(7:32 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to G.Davis (E.Apple) [S.Hubbard

 

 

 

 

Have you looked at the all-22 to verify that there were no underneath options that would have moved the chains om some of those?

 

I have not.  I ask, because in earlier games where Josh was throwing deep a lot, there actually were players open underneath that would have gained yards (on 1st and 10) or moved the chains (on 3rd and 4, 3rd and 2.

 

I can't tell you if Josh doesn't see them, or doesn't trust them, or doesn't trust himself to hit them.  But I can tell you they were there in previous games, and I believe they were probably there against Cincy.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno, Gunner. 

 

Last season Josh was pulling ***** he hadn't pulled since his rookie year and somewhat his 2nd season.  Hurdling guys, trucking guys.  It was like someone took the governor off his engine.  He was not doing that stuff in 2020 and 2021 to the same degree.

 

I think he must have finished the season bruised and beaten to hell, and it hindered him, and he and McDermott both know it. 

 

I don't think you'll take it out of him entirely, but I don't see why he can't at least go back to what he was doing in 2020.

 

 

He was hurdling players in 2021 too. 2020 yea I guess, there was less of it, but he still was bad at sliding and getting out of dodge. I just think it is him. You can reduce the volume of it required. But after that it is on Josh Allen and he is just always gonna be that guy. I think McDermott and Beane and us fans are just gonna have to accept it is part of the Josh Allen experience.

[ddaryl]

12 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Have you looked at the all-22 to verify that there were no underneath options that would have moved the chains om some of those?

 

I have not.  I ask, because in earlier games where Josh was throwing deep a lot, there actually were players open underneath that would have gained yards (on 1st and 10) or moved the chains (on 3rd and 4, 3rd and 2.

 

I can't tell you if Josh doesn't see them, or doesn't trust them, or doesn't trust himself to hit them.  But I can tell you they were there in previous games, and I believe they were probably there against Cincy.

 

 

I have not viewed the all-22 but I agree on your sentiment. Keep the chains moving with the short game is an area I feel Allen needs to be better at. 
 

[Beck Water]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

I have not viewed the all-22 but I agree on your sentiment. Keep the chains moving with the short game is an area I feel Allen needs to be better at. 
 

 

To my point about Allen playing as though the "governor" were off his Ferrari - Allen had gotten markedly better about taking the checkdowns in 2020 and even better in 2021.  And even last season, he had games where he methodically moved the ball down the field - the loss at Miami, the win at KC.

 

Last season, he mysteriously stopped taking those chain moving throws AND started running like a maniac again. 

 

The $93.7M question for Allen, Dorsey, and McDermott is how to reverse that trajectory.

[Mr. WEO]

yes. more sliding--that'll do it Coach!!

[Robert Paulson]

43 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

To my point about Allen playing as though the "governor" were off his Ferrari - Allen had gotten markedly better about taking the check downs in 2020 and even better in 2021.  And even last season, he had games where he methodically moved the ball down the field - the loss at Miami, the win at KC.

 

Last season, he mysteriously stopped taking those chain moving throws AND started running like a maniac again. 

 

The $93.7M question for Allen, Dorsey, and McDermott is how to reverse that trajectory.

his elbow injury prevented him from accurately throwing those short balls. he could still sling it but could was inaccurate in pain on those touch throws

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

his elbow injury prevented him from accurately throwing those short balls. he could still sling it but could was inaccurate in pain on those touch throws

 

That could be so, although, he was "mad bombing" it a bit during the Jets game, before the injury, and dirting balls in the 2nd half of the Vikes game.

 

There was some speculation he dinged something, shoulder or elbow, in the late 2 Q of the GB game, possibly on his 6 yd run in the Red Zone 2nd to last drive.  Notable that Allen was 11-8 (73%) with 2 TD, no INT in the first half, and 14-5 (36%) with 2 picks and a couple of dirt balls in the 2nd half.   Was then 18/24 next week in the Jets game (53%) with 2 INTs.  Pretty big plummet in his completion % those 2 games.

 

 

[Rocbillsfan1]

Sure give him an oline that got block and wrs that can catch then. 

[Turk71]

Build a decent ***** line you idiots.

These guys are unbelievable. 

No running game.....get a new running back

Not enough time to throw......need new receivers who can get open

[Figster]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:23 PM, GunnerBill said:

It is on Josh and frankly I am not sure you can change him. 

Then we have the wrong OC.

[Pokebball]

Coach is covering his ass, should Josh get hurt

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Figster said:

Then we have the wrong OC.

 

No OC would change Josh's competitive desire. 

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Last season Josh was pulling ***** he hadn't pulled since his rookie year and somewhat his 2nd season.  Hurdling guys, trucking guys.  It was like someone took the governor off his engine. 

 

His governor went to NY.

 

Or more accurately, New Jersey.

[QCity]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:22 PM, Big Turk said:

Said it is unsustainable the way he is playing football and being wreckless at times. Says history has shown it and says they talk about it all the time but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through enough and says it HAS to change next year.

 

Brought it up multiple times during the interview apparently.

 

Pretty strong message being sent from McD. Should make all the people freaking out about Allen running so much happy...

 

 

Battista: McDermott 'louder than ever' in his emphasis on Josh Allen needing to slide

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/battista-mcdermott-louder-than-ever-in-his-emphasis-on-josh-allen-needing-to-sli

 

 

 

And he's right.

[NoSaint]

It’s one thing in the playoffs or a big 4th quarter drive to win a game. He can’t be taking on linebackers in the second quarter in September though. It’s how you turn him into cam newton or Andrew luck. He needs to learn the risk and reward of it. It’s a long season and he has a lot of them to make it through. Even ignoring the catastrophic injury, the beatings will shorten his shelf life and I want him in Buffalo til he’s 40 and not falling off at 30 

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno, Gunner. 

 

Last season Josh was pulling ***** he hadn't pulled since his rookie year and somewhat his 2nd season.  Hurdling guys, trucking guys.  It was like someone took the governor off his engine.  He was not doing that stuff in 2020 and 2021 to the same degree.

 

I think he must have finished the season bruised and beaten to hell, and it hindered him, and he and McDermott both know it. 

 

I don't think you'll take it out of him entirely, but I don't see why he can't at least go back to what he was doing in 2020.

 

 

 

 

Have you looked at the all-22 to verify that there were no underneath options that would have moved the chains om some of those?

 

I have not.  I ask, because in earlier games where Josh was throwing deep a lot, there actually were players open underneath that would have gained yards (on 1st and 10) or moved the chains (on 3rd and 4, 3rd and 2.

 

I can't tell you if Josh doesn't see them, or doesn't trust them, or doesn't trust himself to hit them.  But I can tell you they were there in previous games, and I believe they were probably there against Cincy.

there were a few times where it seemed he was running out of frustration more than anything and that’s just not good. 

[Figster]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No OC would change Josh's competitive desire. 

Its not about changing Allens competitive spirit. Its about giving Allen a game plan and play calling  more focused on getting the ball out of Allens fast so he's not having to take off running. Josh Allen has one of the best throwing arms the NFL has eveer seen. Some longevity in the league and for the Bills would be good for everyone. I'm not saying don't run when your in the 4th quarter and the games on the line. Or in playoff games.  I'm saying don't utilize Allen running the football as part of the game plan. 

 

The more I see Josh running this coming up season. The more I think its time for a new OC... 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Figster

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

It’s one thing in the playoffs or a big 4th quarter drive to win a game. He can’t be taking on linebackers in the second quarter in September though. It’s how you turn him into cam newton or Andrew luck. He needs to learn the risk and reward of it. It’s a long season and he has a lot of them to make it through. Even ignoring the catastrophic injury, the beatings will shorten his shelf life and I want him in Buffalo til he’s 40 and not falling off at 30 

there were a few times where it seemed he was running out of frustration more than anything and that’s just not good. 

tf is 'running out of frustration'? Like 'oh my line can't block, that's pretty frustrating?'

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

tf is 'running out of frustration'? Like 'oh my line can't block, that's pretty frustrating?'

like “oh I’ve missed 3 throws and nothing else is going smooth and I’m going to go hit a guy in the open field” as opposed to calculated “it’s 3rd and 5 and I need to get to the sticks”

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

like “oh I’ve missed 3 throws and nothing else is going smooth and I’m going to go hit a guy in the open field” as opposed to calculated “it’s 3rd and 5 and I need to get to the sticks”

amateur psychoanalysis notwithstanding this is simply not how NFL QBs think