The Guardian Cap/ Much needed head protection/ Cleat design change

[Figster]

Some of you may remember having discussions on TBD about this type of added protection being applied to the exterior of a helmet many years ago.  My hope is enough testing has been done to conclude its time to put this new helmet technology to the real test during the regular season. At the very least allow NFL players to wear them If they so choose. Tua for instance.

 

 https://guardiansports.com/2022/04/06/nfl-mandates-guardian-caps/?_ga=2.122023627.1566566845.1677464407-1529632956.1677464405 

 

 

 

Cleat design change needs testing

 

Getting good traction without causing injury is a balancing act many teams are having a problem with including the Buffalo Bills. I wanted to bring this possible design change into the publics eye. It is my belief that a spike that is smaller in diameter and flexible will achieve better traction without increasing the chance of injury. Flexibility would allow the spike to bend with the force being applied and release from the playing surface easier. Everyone has pitched a tent. You know the angle the stakes need to be in to work. If you put them in the ground the opposite way they would pull out easy. Flexible spike would work the same way when force is applied.  >>>///  Allowing for better traction with a deeper spike without increasing the chance of injury IMO.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Figster

[Doc Brown]

Players made some comments that they don't like them (bulky, feel top heavy) as they look ridiculous.  They have to make the look and feel more palatable first.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Players made some comments that they don't like them (bulky, feel top heavy) as they look ridiculous.  They have to make the look and feel more palatable first.

Yes sir, I understand. They need to get past how it looks IMO. Its very possible a new helmet design could add protection along with reducing weight IMO. Slim line it some. I think by the time you put the team logo on the exterior it wouldn't look so out of place IMO.

 

So we can avoid stories like this

 

 https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-mcdowell-linebacker-johnny-heubel-104227382.html

Edited February 27, 2023 by Figster

[NoHuddleKelly12]

The Kelso helmet was the forerunner indeed! 

[Malazan]

11 hours ago, Figster said:

Some of you may remember having discussions on TBD about this type of added protection being applied to the exterior of a helmet many years ago.  My hope is enough testing has been done to conclude its time to put this new helmet technology to the real test during the regular season. At the very least allow NFL players to wear them If they so choose. Tua for instance.

 

 https://guardiansports.com/2022/04/06/nfl-mandates-guardian-caps/?_ga=2.122023627.1566566845.1677464407-1529632956.1677464405 

 

Cleat design change needs testing

 

Getting good traction without causing injury is a balancing act many teams are having a problem with including the Buffalo Bills. I wanted to bring this possible design change into the publics eye. It is my belief that a spike that is smaller in diameter and flexible will achieve better traction without increasing the chance of injury. Flexibility would allow the spike to bend with the force being applied and release from the playing surface easier. Everyone has pitched a tent. You know the angle the stakes need to be in to work. If you put them in the ground the opposite way they would pull out easy. Flexible spike would work the same way when force is applied.  >>>///  Allowing for better traction with a deeper spike without increasing the chance of injury IMO.

 

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Players made some comments that they don't like them (bulky, feel top heavy) as they look ridiculous.  They have to make the look and feel more palatable first.

 

The NFL isn't the one standing in the way of a lot of 'safety' improvements. It's the players themselves. They have rejected previous improvements to equipment because they worry it may cost them an iota of performance and this money. 

[Figster]

Just now, Malazan said:

 

 

The NFL isn't the one standing in the way of a lot of 'safety' improvements. It's the players themselves. They have rejected previous improvements to equipment because they worry it may cost them an iota of performance and this money. 

 The NFL mandates the protection. If you don't want to wear addded head protection. Sign a waver releasing the NFL from any responsibility should a head injury occur.   

[Gugny]

 

Most stupid name and logo in the entire league.

[Malazan]

36 minutes ago, Figster said:

 The NFL mandates the protection. If you don't want to wear added head protection. Sign a waver releasing the NFL from any responsibility should a head injury occur.   

 

They won't do that.  The players would like to have their cake and to eat it too. Add on the horrendous union leadership they've had under Smith and Tretter and you don't have any adults at the wheel watching out for the players when they have conflicting self interests. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

9 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The Kelso helmet was the forerunner indeed! 

 

And I thought he looked ridiculous wearing it

[Coffeesforclosers]

The beginning of the the end for the hard shell exterior helmet. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

48 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

 

And I thought he looked ridiculous wearing it

You definitely need no small measure of self confidence to rock that in front of millions…or at least fear that the next concussion is your ticket out of the league 🤷🏼‍♂️.

[Fleezoid]

I read decades ago an equipment design team had developed soft-shelled helmets and shoulder pads that were safer and were expected to prevent or reduce a number of injuries. The article concluded it would be a long time to implement those types of changes because almost all coaches hated it. Their opinion boiled down to 1 simple factor; they couldn't hear the "crack" of the helmets and shoulder pads making contact. 

 

It's all about the aesthetics.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

 

And I thought he looked ridiculous wearing it

Really? 300 pound guys in tight pants doesn’t look ridiculous? 😂 that’s a bit of a weak argument…, 

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Players made some comments that they don't like them (bulky, feel top heavy) as they look ridiculous.  They have to make the look and feel more palatable first.

 

Better for them to get injured and look ridiculous without helmets.

 

Mark Kelso was ridiculed but he had only 1 more concussions with "Pro-Cap" helmet which was due to knee to head.

 

https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2018/10/hof-artifact-of-the-week-22/

 

http://nfl-pe-stage.azurewebsites.net/next/articles/mark-kelso/

 

On NFL Concussions And Mark Kelso's Giant Helmet

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/101026_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl

Quote

Mark Kelso, a safety for the Bills from 1986 to 1993, wore an outer-padded helmet as a starter in four Super Bowls and finished with 30 career NFL interceptions. Many highly drafted, highly paid safeties wish they could say they had a career as good as Kelso did. Steve Wallace, an offensive tackle for the 49ers from 1986 to 1997, wore an outer-padded helmet and made the Pro Bowl. Many highly drafted, highly paid tackles wish they could say they played as well as Wallace did. You can wear an outer-padded helmet and be a very effective football player -- while doing less harm.

 

Kelso went to outer padding because he'd sustained two severe concussions and been advised to give up football. "The Bills' trainer knew an inventor who had been tinkering with padding," Kelso told me last week. "With padding, I played an additional five seasons, almost 100 more games, and sustained only one concussion, which wasn't a helmet-to-helmet hit -- someone kneed my head. Absolutely the padding made it safer for me and safer for the players I was hitting. You can't use an outer-padded helmet as a weapon. Pound a padded helmet against your own knee; it doesn't hurt. Do that with a standard polycarbonate shell helmet, and you'll howl in pain. If both players were wearing this in a helmet-to-helmet hit, it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad."

 

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The Kelso helmet was the forerunner indeed! 

Agree.

[Figster]

23 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Better for them to get injured and look ridiculous without helmets.

 

Mark Kelso was ridiculed but he had only 1 more concussions with "Pro-Cap" helmet which was due to knee to head.

 

https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2018/10/hof-artifact-of-the-week-22/

 

http://nfl-pe-stage.azurewebsites.net/next/articles/mark-kelso/

 

On NFL Concussions And Mark Kelso's Giant Helmet

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/101026_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl

 

Agree.

Check this interview out and let me put an emphasis on zero concussions.

 

 

 

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The Kelso helmet was the forerunner indeed! 

 

what was that cap he had made out of?  

[Figster]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

what was that cap he had made out of?  

Urethane

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

15 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The Kelso helmet was the forerunner indeed! 

No…The Great Gazoo was first..

 

[Mr. WEO]

players have no interest in this

[Mango]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

players have no interest in this

It should start by being mandated by municipal leagues and pop warner teams. Also local school districts. 
 

Also college ball. 
 

At that point you’ll have a whole generation of kids who don’t know different. 
 

If it makes parents feel better about the game there’s likely a case (selling point) to be made that they can absorb the cost by increased membership dues. 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Mango said:

It should start by being mandated by municipal leagues and pop warner teams. Also local school districts. 
 

Also college ball. 
 

At that point you’ll have a whole generation of kids who don’t know different. 
 

If it makes parents feel better about the game there’s likely a case (selling point) to be made that they can absorb the cost by increased membership dues. 

 

 

I agree kids should wear them for sure.   I just don't see the NFL making them mandatory. 

 

 

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I agree kids should wear them for sure.   I just don't see the NFL making them mandatory. 

 

 

When they already did last year during preseason in practices?

Edited February 28, 2023 by Figster

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

players have no interest in this

Should this be true, it says something about football players…, 

[DasNootz]

OL will be the early adopters.  Hopefully Mitch will be one of them.

[T master]

Mark Kelso was a innovator of this type of thing & it worked very well for him i believe if nothing else they may be able to add the padding to the back of Tua's helmet or to the front of say a RB's helmet seeing as they usually lower their head or maybe have it made in the form of a mo hawk right down the center of the helmet 🤔 .

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

When they already did last year during preseason in practices?

 

so what?  Then where did they go?  It was only for linemen and LBs  and there's hardly any contact in those practices anyway so it's a bit cynical for them to have made a big deal about these things then.  

 

32 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Should this be true, it says something about football players…, 

 

They would prefer comfort and looks over improved safety.  But that's their choice

[BillsShredder83]

On 2/27/2023 at 10:50 AM, Gugny said:

 

Most stupid name and logo in the entire league.

I hate all the new names as much as anyone else, and Guardians is stupid, but I think the split finger logo is cool!

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

so what?  Then where did they go?  It was only for linemen and LBs  and there's hardly any contact in those practices anyway so it's a bit cynical for them to have made a big deal about these things then.  

 

 

They would prefer comfort and looks over improved safety.  But that's their choice

Likely not a comfort issue, it’s all about fashion over function, but hey, it’s not my brain 🧠…, 

[Figster]

34 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Likely not a comfort issue, it’s all about fashion over function, but hey, it’s not my brain 🧠…, 

Nothing has really been done to make the Guardian Cap less noticeable or more attractive IMO. So from a fashion standpoint its possible enough improvements could be made to make the cap acceptable to the players IMO.

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

Nothing has really been done to make the Guardian Cap less noticeable or more attractive IMO. So from a fashion standpoint its possible enough improvements could be made to make the cap acceptable to the players IMO.

Not seeing how any of that is relevant to protecting one’s brain 🧠, I guess if the big guys wearing tight pants find a device that so obviously protects their brains from injury (in a sport that such injuries happen frequently) not fashionable enough well those snowflakes will just have to take their chances of getting CTE or worse now won’t they…, 

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Not seeing how any of that is relevant to protecting one’s brain 🧠, I guess if the big guys wearing tight pants find a device that so obviously protects their brains from injury (in a sport that such injuries happen frequently) not fashionable enough well those snowflakes will just have to take their chances of getting CTE or worse now won’t they…, 

Its relevant because NFL players are gladiators and entertainers. What they look like does matter. The modern day Gladiator needs better head protection so he can continue to entertain the world...

Edited February 28, 2023 by Figster

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Its relevant because NFL players are gladiators and entertainers. What they look like does matter. The modern day Gladiator needs better head protection so he can continue to entertain the world...

Exactly why they will just have to take their chances with CTE or worse, it’s football not a bunch of fashionistas at the mall clothing stores…, 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Not seeing how any of that is relevant to protecting one’s brain 🧠, I guess if the big guys wearing tight pants find a device that so obviously protects their brains from injury (in a sport that such injuries happen frequently) not fashionable enough well those snowflakes will just have to take their chances of getting CTE or worse now won’t they…, 

any supposed benefits of these helmets is theoretical.  There’s no known clinical benefit

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Exactly why they will just have to take their chances with CTE or worse, it’s football not a bunch of fashionistas at the mall clothing stores…, 

Setting an example for the younger generation and leading the pack is my hope. The exterior protection on helmets can help protect not only football players. All sports where head injury is possible IMO. It can also help protect bicyclist, motorcylclist, construction workers even IMO. The list goes on and on. Having been hit in the head myself working below other construction workers. I can tell you the extra outer hard hat protection would have clearly helped IMO.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Figster

[Figster]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

any supposed benefits of these helmets is theoretical.  There’s no known clinical benefit

Its new technology so listen to some of the experiences in using the Guardian Cap from a coach that really cares like this one.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Figster said:

Its new technology so listen to some of the experiences in using the Guardian Cap from a coach that really cares like this one.

 

He doesn't have the HS kids where them during games, only practice.  It's a great idea for the little kids no doubt---the vast  majority of whom aren't going to play HS or college ball.

 

Reducing concussions is always a great goal.  This hasn't yet been proven to do so.   Also, CTE develops in the absence of concussions (known ones at least) as the result of hundreds of low impact/deceleration events involving the player's head.

 

 

[Figster]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He doesn't have the HS kids where them during games, only practice.  It's a great idea for the little kids no doubt---the vast  majority of whom aren't going to play HS or college ball.

 

Reducing concussions is always a great goal.  This hasn't yet been proven to do so.   Also, CTE develops in the absence of concussions (known ones at least) as the result of hundreds of low impact/deceleration events involving the player's head.

 

 

I understand 

 

By reducing each helmet to helmet impact a minimum of 20% you can also see where cumulatively speaking it would help.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Figster

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Figster said:

I understand 

 

By reducing each helmet to helmet impact a minimum of 20% you can also see where cumulatively speaking it would help.

 

 

Possibly

[BillsShredder83]

6 hours ago, Figster said:

Its relevant because NFL players are gladiators and entertainers. What they look like does matter. The modern day Gladiator needs better head protection so he can continue to entertain the world...

Condoms, seat belts and bicycle helmets don't look very cool, yet every 20yr old wears those right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiighttttttttt

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

any supposed benefits of these helmets is theoretical.  There’s no known clinical benefit

Could be, I certainly am not in the know,