Stadium Renderings Part 2

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It's going to be a pile of rocks like the original one. 

 

Still for what they spent on it, it should be a lot more impressive. It's very generic but I guess that's to be expected when all fans want is the Bills to stay. 

 

This is a legit question and not at all snarky: How can you tell anything from those renderings, and what exactly do you want? What needs to be improved, in your opinion, based on those few sketches? 

 

Those exterior renderings tell me next to nothing. I can’t even have an opinion without more knowledge. 

 

EDIT: Other than a dome, if that is your thing. Ain’t gonna happen. 

 

.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Augie

[Dick_Cheney]

7 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

You realize the Bengals play outside too? Dome has absolutely nothing to do with why the Bills lost. And the game that got moved, a dome doesn't change that decision either. That game was unplayable dome or no dome. Give it up already 

Comments like this are hilarious. Folks simply incapable of utilizing critical thinking to recognize that the weather/wind situation in Buffalo is dramatically different from almost everywhere else in the ENTIRE league, let alone Cinci. Just hilarious.

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is a legit question and not at all snarky: How can you tell anything from those renderings, and what exactly do you want? What needs to be improved, in your opinion, based on those few sketches? 

 

Those exterior renderings tell me next to nothing. I can’t even have an opinion without more knowledge. 

For the amenities we don't know anything and that would make the stadium a lot better depending on what is offered. 

 

My problem is that from the renderings its an upgrade to what's already there. For the amount of money they are spending I wanted to see something more in line the Vikings stadium. This was the chance to bring the city of Buffalo and the Bills up to the level of the top cities in the NFL. 

[Kiva]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

 

10/10 on the clown meter! We have a new champion!

Let me guess, you settle. Settling on the most important decisions in your life leaves you unsatisfied and vulnerable to lashing out…

5 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

Well maybe you could chip in?  I have has season tickets for decades, I attend the games no matter the weather, and have tons of great memories, that I hope continue. I walk the walk... With your cavalier response, I doubt you have ever attended a game.    

Nys taxpayer and season ticket holder since 99. I don’t have a loser , small minded mentality though.  This is a generational decision, public outcry needs to be heard. Other than the “injury”, Our year was sabotaged because of weather. I want the best for our team and our state. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Kiva

[BillsFan2313]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is a legit question and not at all snarky: How can you tell anything from those renderings, and what exactly do you want? What needs to be improved, in your opinion, based on those few sketches? 

 

Those exterior renderings tell me next to nothing. I can’t even have an opinion without more knowledge. 

 

EDIT: Other than a dome, if that is your thing. Ain’t gonna happen. 

 

.

 

He wants it made out of gold

[FLFan]

21 hours ago, Kiva said:

Maybe they should pony up or sell to owners that care about winning. 

I am not sure it would be possible for you to be any more clueless.  

[JoPoy88]

33 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the amenities we don't know anything and that would make the stadium a lot better depending on what is offered. 

 

My problem is that from the renderings its an upgrade to what's already there. For the amount of money they are spending I wanted to see something more in line the Vikings stadium. This was the chance to bring the city of Buffalo and the Bills up to the level of the top cities in the NFL. 

it’s just a football stadium. Whether it be this design or a fancy all-glass cube like Minnesota’s it ain’t making that big a difference to the city.

[Jrb1979]

44 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

He wants it made out of gold

Yep and with PSLs starting at $10,000 a seat. 

[Kiva]

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

Yep and with PSLs starting at $10,000 a seat. 

Price out the rift raft. I’m ok with that. Buffalo as a team, has changed their culture, it’s time for fans follow. We want the best of the best only attending. 

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

it’s just a football stadium. Whether it be this design or a fancy all-glass cube like Minnesota’s it ain’t making that big a difference to the city.

 

 

The more important question is does it give the team the best chance to go into the 2030's and 2040's with a facility that helps them be as competitive as possible.........on the field and financially.

 

Personally,  I think the in-facility spending by fans will eventually surpass the cost of entry..........and getting people off of their wallets when they are out in the heat of late summer or the inclement weather of fall/winter is not going to be as easy as it is for teams with controlled environments.

 

This stadium in Buffalo might be the last new "uncovered" stadium built for the NFL.    

 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

This is a legit question and not at all snarky: How can you tell anything from those renderings, and what exactly do you want? What needs to be improved, in your opinion, based on those few sketches? 

 

Those exterior renderings tell me next to nothing. I can’t even have an opinion without more knowledge. 

 

EDIT: Other than a dome, if that is your thing. Ain’t gonna happen. 

 

.

 

It’s of course just personal opinion but here are a few of the newest NFL stadiums:

 

 

 

 

 

And then here is the Bills new stadium:

 

 

It looks generic. Boring. Unappealing. Nothing screams “Buffalo” to me. There are no unique features that stand out and make people instantly say “oh that’s the Bills stadium”. Looking from the outside I can’t tell if it’s an airport, a soccer stadium, or a place to watch football.

 

And it looks like it’s old already. More like an early 2000’s stadium. If you were visiting a city you’ve never been and they told you this stadium was built in 2002, would you even question it? Probably not. It looks like a generic 2002 stadium. Like someone out of Madden build-a-stadium.

 

In fact it kinda-sorta looks like a more shapely Metlife stadium, which was built a decade and a half ago and is universally panned by Jets & Giants fans.

 

 

With taxpayers contributing nearly $1B, I am bothered by getting a generic, boring, unappealing stadium.

 

[JoPoy88]

42 minutes ago, Kiva said:

Price out the rift raft. I’m ok with that. Buffalo as a team, has changed their culture, it’s time for fans follow. We want the best of the best only attending. 

I hope this is parody.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the amenities we don't know anything and that would make the stadium a lot better depending on what is offered. 

 

My problem is that from the renderings its an upgrade to what's already there. For the amount of money they are spending I wanted to see something more in line the Vikings stadium. This was the chance to bring the city of Buffalo and the Bills up to the level of the top cities in the NFL. 

 

The Viking play on a very cool stadium…..that is a dome. I edited to remove that possible complaint to this particular question. We aren’t getting a dome. 

 

I can’t tell enough from those few renderings to form an opinion. I have to believe the amenities are a VAST improvement, but time will tell. We need more info IMO. 

[SirAndrew]

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

This is where i’m at. Seems underwhelming for $1.4 billion or whatever the cost is at right now.

 

The Vikings got that taj mahal of a stadium for about the same price, albeit 5 or so years ago.

 

Axthally, the more I look at it the more I really dislike it. No real discernible features. Looks like a soccer stadium mixed with MetLife. 

Agree, it looks very much like a generic European generic soccer stadium. I think that’s why it hasn’t grown on me. I know we aren’t getting a dome, or an insanely priced palace, but I can’t get over the Euro soccer ambiance. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by SirAndrew

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

It's going to be a pile of rocks like the original one. 

 

Still for what they spent on it, it should be a lot more impressive. It's very generic but I guess that's to be expected when all fans want is the Bills to stay. 

 

I agree 100% on that.

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Agree, it looks very much like a generic European generic soccer stadium. I think that’s why it hasn’t grown on me. I know we aren’t getting a dome, or an insanely priced palace, but I can’t get over the Euro soccer ambiance. 

 

Yep.

 

And are these fans entering a football stadium…. or Macy’s?

 

What is with these entrances?

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

He wants it made out of gold

 

Somebody else’s gold, I’m guessing. 

 

They will remain in WNY, the sinks can be sinks again, you might get a beer in a reasonable amount of time and it’s less likely to fall down. I hope the sight-lines can be as good as the Ralph, as we have been spoiled with great views from pretty much anywhere in the stadium. It’s been a good home to us for a long time, but nothing goes on forever. Time to upgrade, and I’m sure the replacement will be just fine. It will still get endless bashing from some who “know better”, but let’s wait and see what we are talking about first. 

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s of course just personal opinion but here are a few of the newest NFL stadiums:

 

 

 

 

 

And then here is the Bills new stadium:

 

 

It looks generic. Boring. Unappealing. Nothing screams “Buffalo” to me. There are no unique features that stand out and make people instantly say “oh that’s the Bills stadium”. Looking from the outside I can’t tell if it’s an airport, a soccer stadium, or a place to watch football.

 

And it looks like it’s old already. More like an early 2000’s stadium. If you were visiting a city you’ve never been and they told you this stadium was built in 2002, would you even question it? Probably not. It looks like a generic 2002 stadium. Like someone out of Madden build-a-stadium.

 

In fact it kinda-sorta looks like a more shapely Metlife stadium, which was built a decade and a half ago and is universally panned by Jets & Giants fans.

 

 

With taxpayers contributing nearly $1B, I am bothered by getting a generic, boring, unappealing stadium.

 

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple. Do you have an extra billion or so laying around? Should I assume the owner should foot this whole bill for you? Or do you want more from the taxpayers too? It’s always easy, when it’s not your money. 

 

WNY is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, and we all know that. It’s easier if we just accept that reality. 

 

Oh, and I’ve got news for you, I prefer the Ralph to the Falcons stadium. Bills home games feel more like football games to me.

 

 

. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Augie

[Jrb1979]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple. Do you have an extra billion or so laying around? Should I assume the owner should foot this whole bill for you? Or do you want more from the taxpayers too? It’s always easy, when it’s not your money. 

 

Oh, and I’ve got news for you, I prefer the Ralph to the Falcons stadium. Bills home games feel more like football games to me. 

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

[The 9 Isles]

Looks fine to me. 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

 

So….. the season ticket holders who will already see much higher prices? That is not an answer that avoids more pain for others. 

 

My bad, I should never have gotten into the whole dome/no dome and who pays for it argument. (Forget where to put it!) Have fun with this. I’d have been happy anywhere in WNY. I don’t need a palace to make me love my team more, and you get what you pay for. 

 

My point was, I can’t tell much of anything from what I’ve seen so far. 

 

.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Augie

[Buffalo Super Fan]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple. Do you have an extra billion or so laying around? Should I assume the owner should foot this whole bill for you? Or do you want more from the taxpayers too? It’s always easy, when it’s not your money. 

 

WNY is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, and we all know that. It’s easier if we just accept that reality. 

 

Oh, and I’ve got news for you, I prefer the Ralph to the Falcons stadium. Bills home games feel more like football games to me.

 

 

. 

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Buffalo Super Fan

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Your leaps in logic were almost disorienting! I said Buffalo is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, some of the sites of the stadiums he compared to ours. Compared to most of the league, the new stadium will be a fine experience. And I’m older than you are. Maybe just a little less grumpy?  😋

[Jrb1979]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Your leaps in logic were almost disorienting! I said Buffalo is not LA or Vegas or Atlanta, some of the sites of the stadiums he compared to ours. Compared to most of the league, the new stadium will be a fine experience. And I’m older than you are. Maybe just a little less grumpy?  😋

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

[BillsFan2313]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Are you going to be saying that when Buffalo, Western New York continues to fall further behind the country to a point that Western New York can no longer house NFL football and NHL hockey? Because Western New York made poor economic decisions and never corrected the poor economic decisions from the past because it was too hard?
 

Think about that I am old 55 years old but this generational project decision isn’t any better than the last time it’s the exact same decision made. Again this doesn’t affect me the Buffalo Bills are here for 15 years ironclad so I am 70 plus years old when the Buffalo Bills can option out of the new Buffalo Bills stadium and it simply won’t matter anymore when I am real old. The younger generation is going to be affected by this generational stadium mistake again like my generation was by elders at the time. Forget Terry Pegula he is 71 years old it doesn’t affect him he is in Florida this affects Western New York we live here in my opinion. Go Bills! 

 

 Didn't the disbute between the state and seneca nation come to an end, with the state receiving $564 million, and $414 million of that, going into the $600 million being paid by the state?

[Einstein]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple.

 

I’m already paying my part of the close to billion dollars NYS & Erie County gave them.

 

I will then pay even more via PSL which will go toward the NFL money they got for the stadium.

 

Pegula is paying very little of this project.

 

[BillsFan2313]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

 

I honselty think we have to wait on more details within the stadium. One thing that was noted, is that the game experience in the stadium is going to be much better. Radiant heating, like the club seats have will also be throughout the stadiums. I don't really care how it looks from the outside (although I dont think it looks terrible). IMO, it is all about the experience inside. 

[Einstein]

 

36 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

 

That would be great but I think I read the PSL’s are already earmarked to pay for the NFL loan and Pegula’s portion.

 

When all is said and done, Pegula will likely pay for about 10%~ of the stadium.

 

The crazy part is that some of problems with the stadium could be fixed without spending much extra money. Reallocate funds. It is SO generic.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

For the older generation this stadium works just fine. The problem is if they want to get the 40 and under generation to go to games you need it to be on the level of those stadiums.  It's already a hard sell for fans in December and January games. The Bengals game should never had that many Bengals fans in attendance. 

 

Don’t try to make it an age thing. I took my sons to WNY for Bills home games when they turned 16 as a rite of passage. My youngest son went last year for his 30th Bday as gift from his wife, and he’s gone many times in between. 

 

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums, and they are all in huge markets. Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

One thing that was noted, is that the game experience in the stadium is going to be much better. Radiant heating, like the club seats have will also be throughout the stadiums. 

 

I wish that were true, but I read that radiant heating will still only be in the VIP areas.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I’m already paying my part of the close to billion dollars NYS & Erie County gave them.

 

I will then pay even more via PSL which will go toward the NFL money they got for the stadium.

 

Pegula is paying very little of this project.

 

 

Easy to say with someone else’s billion. You always have the option to vote with your feet. They won’t take it personally. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums

 

Every single new stadium (except ours).

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

and they are all in huge markets.

 

But those huge markets gave LESS public funds. So what’s the difference? Their owner is more generous? 

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

 

KC - 51 years old stadium

Pittsburgh - 22 year old stadium

Green Bay - 66 year old stadium 

Cleveland - 24 year old stadium 

Tampa - 25 year old stadium

Jacksonville - 28 year old stadium

Baltimore - 25 year old stadium

 

You kinda made my point. Our new $1.4B stadium is most closely compared to 20-60 year old stadiums. That’s a tough investment.

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Don’t try to make it an age thing. I took my sons to WNY for Bills home games when they turned 16 as a rite of passage. My youngest son went last year for his 30th Bday as gift from his wife, and he’s gone many times in between. 

 

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums, and they are all in huge markets. Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

Yes they are just fine but they were also built well before these new wave of stadiums.  Personally I would rather they built something similar to what Nashville is building. Winning only takes you so far. 

 

December and January games have been a hard sell even when they are winning. Since a dome isn't happening then hopefully the amenities are majorly updated. I'm talking having all the micro breweries having a vendor in the stadium, a bar/ restaurant in one of the corners over looking the field. I would love if they took a page from Progressive field and have an area for kids and families to hangout. 

 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Every single new stadium (except ours).

 

 

But those huge markets gave LESS public funds. So what’s the difference? Their owner is more generous? 

 

 

KC - 51 years old stadium

Pittsburgh - 22 year old stadium

Green Bay - 66 year old stadium 

Cleveland - 24 year old stadium 

Tampa - 25 year old stadium

Jacksonville - 28 year old stadium

Baltimore - 25 year old stadium

 

You kinda made my point. Our new $1.4B stadium is most closely compared to 20-60 year old stadiums. That’s a tough investment.

 

Are you too prissy to be outside? Does the weather bother you too? 

 

You do not get more stadium than you need unless you have other ways to use it. The Nashville stadium is fine, but that city is a world class attraction. I get it.  The places with older stadiums don’t need any more than they have. They’re fine. 

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. We know almost NOTHING about the new stadium, yet some people just have to complain. Have a nice life, it must be tough. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Are you too prissy to be outside? Does the weather bother you too? 

 

You do not get more stadium than you need unless you have other ways to use it. The Nashville stadium is fine, but that city is a world class attraction. I get it.  The places with older stadiums don’t need any more than they have. They’re fine. 

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. We know almost NOTHING about the new stadium, yet some people just have to complain. Have a nice life, it must be tough. 

 

I’d rather have a dome but the outside stadium doesn’t bother me. I never mentioned that at all. I said it looks boring, unappealing and there is nothing distinctive. None of that has to do with a dome.

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Yes they are just fine but they were also built well before these new wave of stadiums.  Personally I would rather they built something similar to what Nashville is building. Winning only takes you so far. 

 

December and January games have been a hard sell even when they are winning. Since a dome isn't happening then hopefully the amenities are majorly updated. I'm talking having all the micro breweries having a vendor in the stadium, a bar/ restaurant in one of the corners over looking the field. I would love if they took a page from Progressive field and have an area for kids and families to hangout. 

 

 

How well do you know Nashville? We used to have a property in Green Hills just south of Belmont and Vandy. I love the city! I fear they can’t handle the growth, but it’s not my problem. 

 

Nashville gets a fancy new dome because they can have 100k+ people show up on any given weekend for some random event or convention. Like pretty much every weekend! They need more venues! WNY? Not so much. 

 

I’m tired of pointing out the obvious. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Augie

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

How well do you know Nashville? We used to have a property in Green Hills Jay south of Belmont and Vandy. I love the city! I fear they can’t handle the growth, but it’s not my problem. 

 

Nashville gets a fancy new dome because they can have 100k+ people show up on any given weekend for some random event or convention. Like pretty much every weekend! They need more venues! WNY? Not so much. 

 

I’m tired of pointing out the obvious. 

I get it. Buffalo isn't a major city and is a small market. They don't need anything fancy or over the top. It just needs to be good enough and to not price out the market. 

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I get it. Buffalo isn't a major city and is a small market. They don't need anything fancy or over the top. It just needs to be good enough and to not price out the market. 

 

Titans averaged 68,615 attendance per game in 2022

Bills averaged 68,431 attendance per game in 2022.

 

So for that much bigger fancy city, they only got a minuscule higher number of attendees.

 

Thats why they get the nicer stadium? I don’t get it.

I guess it’s all about conventions. The 4 or 5 per year.

[Jrb1979]

57 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Titans averaged 68,615 attendance per game in 2022

Bills averaged 68,431 attendance per game in 2022.

 

So for that much bigger fancy city, they only got a minuscule higher number of attendees.

 

Thats why they get the nicer stadium? I don’t get it.

I guess it’s all about conventions. The 4 or 5 per year.

IMO I think why many don't want a huge over the top stadium is the cost for tickets at that kind of stadium. Many would be priced out. 

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Or the billionaire owner could contribute a bit more.

 

I don’t like Kroenke all that much but I give him credit for writing a $5B check for his stadium.

 

Edit: Robert Kraft too

 

I hear you, but this is an almost entirely different topic.

 

Amongst the parties involved, I think Terry is the big winner here. He gets to outlay as little as possible for the new stadium while keeping the Bills where he wants for a reasonably long time, likely for as long as he will be able to function as an owner.

 

He has 5 children and who knows if they'll ever find an agreement on whether to keep, sell, or possibly move the team somewhere else once it's their decision to make. I would venture to guess that their emotional attachment to Buffalo is less than Terry's or Kim's.

 

Terry is a wise business man and this is the cheapest bandaid he could buy.

 

That being said, I'll go back to my original point. It appears to me that the fans in Minnesota, to name a somewhat comparable market, got significantly more value for money with their stadium, with a roofed structure and much bolder and distinctive design and solutions.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by McDeerInTheHeadlights