Dr. Who Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Beck Water said: That's the "party line", but I'm not sure it's correct. Part of that is because of Allen's known tendencies, teams know they can choke down on the guys who are past the sticks and pay a cursory nod to the shallow guys. For example, on the play where Josh threw to Beasley who was closely covered by 1 defender and had 2 others in the vicinity - on the opposite side of the field, Dawson Knox ran a route that effectively picked the defender off Diggs and left him totally open for a while before the defender who had him closed the gap. Romo even commented during the broadcast that Allen has Diggs wide open on the opposite side of the field. On the deep INT to Brown, I believe he was the only receiver on the field as the Bills put a heavy set on the field against what Miami showed as a cover 0 blitz. But then when they dropped, the Bills two TE and Gilliam broke out into routes. There were crossers at two levels by Morris and Knox, who was drawing the attention and leaving Morris wide open with a passing lane to him, as well as Gilliam running up the sideline and carrying 2 defenders with him. People here are "oh, Dorsey should give Allen checkdowns" "Dorsey should scheme guys open", usually when Allen throws a pick, there is an alternative open, Allen just doesn't choose to take it. I think this is correct. Josh is smart. He needs to realize how much more dangerous and effective the offense would be if he took even 30% of those checkdowns. The opposing D would not be able to discard the underneath routes and key on the long ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) I didn't like that McDermott press conference. Still trying to get to know Kaiir. How about getting playmakers on the field coach? He's had 2-3 interceptions in limited work. Last week there wasn't going to be a rotation until Dane got hurt and they had no choice. Frazier said this. And always this "fine line" stuff with Josh, egged on by our media about avoiding turnovers. Its your job Bills FO to get him better talent. Allen is an A, playing with an offense assembled from spare parts and mid-round draft picks. Edited January 18, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Dr. Who said: I think this is correct. Josh is smart. He needs to realize how much more dangerous and effective the offense would be if he took even 30% of those checkdowns. The opposing D would not be able to discard the underneath routes and key on the long ball. If what you write here is correct, that's entirely on coaching. It's their job to make Josh the best he can be and to wipe out bad habits. I still can't believe they haven't impressed on him the importance of holding onto the ball correctly when he runs. He holds it "loaf of break" style in one hand, then waves his huge arm all around....3 o'clock, noon, 9 o'clock, back to 3'clock. Now wonder he has been a fumble machine this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Beck Water said: I have a healthy "ignore" file now. Neat, sweet, can't be beat. Preserves me from the temptation to respond to a troll (or a poster who is not a troll but psychologically unable to acknowledge a valid counterpoint). Greatly improves the board experience, 4 of 4 stars, highly recommend. I kind of felt ethically compelled not to censor folks since I don't like it when I am erased for various reasons, but I take your point and free speech really should only apply to ideas and not intentional black magic. Edited January 18, 2023 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopelessNJBuffaloFan Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: So hedging your bets here? If the Bills win, well Dorsey isn't horrible. Bills lose, see told you. - People do that? I am saying he is OK, but is he? How many times you see things work, then they never ever go back to it. Josh is not the same Josh, can you explain this? Or is this just based on some interceptions from Green Bay and the Jets and last week being aggressive in Miami. Yes, have you noticed his swagger and his confidence has totally changed. Maybe the injury? He used to get pumped up and wild and now he is very mild mannered even when he scores. Look at the 4 first games, and look at him now.... big difference. Are you thinking the Bengals have just been held down 2-weeks in a row by a divisional opponent? I think the Balt defense plays very well against Cinci, Like Miami to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said: I can’t stress enough how different Baltimores defense is from ours and how much better suited to defend Cincinnati they are. It’s not the same. They can rush burrow with 4. They have Marcus Peter’s and Marlon Humphrey to cover Chase and Higgins and Hamilton in thr slot too for coverage. Not to mention Roquan smith in the middle. Remember this when chase is getting open constantly and Higgins is finding soft spots in Fraziers zones. I do think we will give the bengals D some problems but fundamentally this is a bad matchup. Sounds like you need to become a Bengals fan. Every time you post its some warning about how unstoppable that team is. They're capable, no doubt. But they don't lead the league in points scored or points allowed. You talk about them like they are the 1989 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I dunno where the Burrows lack of respect comes from, but it should be noted that while he's not a major contributor to the Bengals running game, he's far from a statue. He has 5 rushing TDs this year He mostly runs to extend plays, but just when the D mistakes him for a guy who takes the LOS for the Berlin wall, he will scamper across it for a first down. I can't quickly turn up the data on 1Ds, but his 5 runs vs. KC in the AFCCG last year contributed to their win and his willingness to run contributed to their W against KC this year as well. The Bills have to contain him on 3D if they can't get him down. This type of matchup will be situation based. I trust our dynamic hats to the ball defense on 3rd and long to make up for distance of down. Idont mean to disrespect burrow. I think those 3 WRs on any team would do wonders for a QB. So I view him with weight and know he is the leader of that team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said: These are all valid points. I took the bengals -5 based upon this also. I don’t view the bengals banged up o line as a huge advantage for us without Von. Both the stats and my eyes tell me we can’t get after the qb with much consistency anymore so adding that to the fact that burrow has time to hit his trio of great receivers against our overmatched DBs, and it’s a recipe for a long night. I’m way more confident in the 49ers -4 though. That line is an absolute joke and just free money. Niners are going to roll. People that are betting money on football should do a little more digging into offensive schemes / offensive lines lol bengals like to run empty sets/ 11 personnel. Miami runs a lot of heavier sets. Treating the cincy injured oline and dolphins injured oline as an apples to apples comparison is a huge mistake. You’re only getting cincy +5 because good one on one pass blocking is so important to what they do and they really don’t have the talent right now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Nextmanup said: If what you write here is correct, that's entirely on coaching. It's their job to make Josh the best he can be and to wipe out bad habits. I still can't believe they haven't impressed on him the importance of holding onto the ball correctly when he runs. He holds it "loaf of break" style in one hand, then waves his huge arm all around....3 o'clock, noon, 9 o'clock, back to 3'clock. Now wonder he has been a fumble machine this year. There might be something to the notion that Daboll could be a father figure and Dorsey is more a big brother that Josh is less inclined to take criticism from. I dunno, but someone needs to get Josh clear on this. It seemed to me last year's playoffs he was much more open to taking the underneath routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: I think some people here have watched every second of every Bills game, but have only watched highlights of the Bengals. People are talking about the Bengals like they are the 2007 Pats. YES! Exactly! like this unstoppable force! Its really odd to me? But the media is hyping Burrow - which is fine - hes really good i get that, but youre right - its like this unstoppable force and - for the life of me - i cant get why Cinci fans are so cocky and conifdent even with their winning "streak" weird to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigvinny Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) Decent breakdown of Josh taking the check down . One play Singletary has nobody around him for 15 yards and instead they throw deep to Davis. "Take the cheese" https://youtu.be/lJLGVQwfjIs Edited January 18, 2023 by Bigvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: YES. This was WGRs rallying cry for weeks, until Kurt Warner showed that there are plenty of checkdowns available in this offense. Kurt Warner also explained that Dorsey isn't in left field with some of these play designs. He runs things common to an NFL offense like mesh, or high-low combinations. Now we're back to we don't checkdown enough. Part of it is our OL. The Bills O kind of lives in 11 personnel - not to the same extent the D lives in nickel, but it's something like 72% (anyone got stats, especially individual game stats, please Bring 'Em). This season, Singletary and Knox have been kept in to block - a lot- while 2 or 3 of the WR run deep or deep intermediate routes. McKenzie is often an immediate checkdown option in the flat, sometimes he runs a deep crosser where he's a threat because of his speed. Knox (more often) and Singletary (less often) chip then release onto a route, but it's of necessity a shallow route. That workflow limits the route trees those latter 2 can run. IMHO the #1 thing the Bills could do in the off season is invest significant resources in improving the OL. If we could actually block 4 DL or 4 DL and a LB with hat-on-hat, and use Knox in routes which he showed last season he has the skill set to run, that would help a great deal. Morris, IMHO, is also underutilized as a receiver where I've been impressed at times when I've seen him. That release on the route where he scored the TD was Sick. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Bigvinny said: Decent breakdown of Josh taking the check down. One play Singletary has nobody around him for 15 yards and they throw deep to Davis. https://youtu.be/lJLGVQwfjIs And our fans and media will immediately start crying when this becomes a checkdown ball control offense. Basically, our media just wants it to work. They point out obvious stuff and want a ton of claps on the back as they ask McDermott about dialing everything back to avoid mistakes. But sure, go out there Sunday and see if you can out checkdown the Bengals to victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said: I can’t stress enough how different Baltimores defense is from ours and how much better suited to defend Cincinnati they are. It’s not the same. They can rush burrow with 4. They have Marcus Peter’s and Marlon Humphrey to cover Chase and Higgins and Hamilton in thr slot too for coverage. Not to mention Roquan smith in the middle. Remember this when chase is getting open constantly and Higgins is finding soft spots in Fraziers zones. I do think we will give the bengals D some problems but fundamentally this is a bad matchup. I can’t stress enough how much better the bills offense is than the ravens offense led by Tyler Huntley. Bills defense will make enough plays with cincys oline banged up…they certainly won’t hold them scoreless like baltimore did in the second half but they don’t need to. it’s a great matchup. If you bet cincy +5 I think you got it wrong but that’s just my opinion. a team that can run the ball at will with a tough secondary is who would worry me…someone like philly or sf or the jets if they ever find a qb 😂 Edited January 18, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SCBills said: It's a valid criticism. We are hilariously bad at screens. I just do not care.. it's one of the more random things to worry about. except WR Screens...those usually work pretty well. "Gold Rip/Whip" audible. Beasley scored on a version of a WR screen last game Edited January 18, 2023 by Big Turk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Drew21PA said: YES! Exactly! like this unstoppable force! Its really odd to me? But the media is hyping Burrow - which is fine - hes really good i get that, but youre right - its like this unstoppable force and - for the life of me - i cant get why Cinci fans are so cocky and conifdent even with their winning "streak" weird to me... The Bengals were a joke from 1991 until recently. Even the Marvin Lewis years were generally underwhelming. Now, they're the defending AFC Champs and the Steelers are in a rare downturn so their goldfish memories have kicked in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 21 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: YES. This was WGRs rallying cry for weeks, until Kurt Warner showed that there are plenty of checkdowns available in this offense. Kurt Warner also explained that Dorsey isn't in left field with some of these play designs. He runs things common to an NFL offense like mesh, or high-low combinations. Now we're back to we don't checkdown enough. The thing I dont like is there are a lot of times where two receivers end up close to the same spot. That makes it easier on a defense. What I dont know is that on Dorsey or are our receivers running the wrong route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35427940/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-rise-career-journey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: The thing I dont like is there are a lot of times where two receivers end up close to the same spot. That makes it easier on a defense. What I dont know is that on Dorsey or are our receivers running the wrong route? This has been discussed a lot on some podcasts I listen to, and based on what we know of the offense, the WR's have a TON of discretion in the routes they run and where they end up based on the defense alignment pre snap (WRs have mentioned that this offense is unlike anything they have ever played in before). This likely leads to them being around each other a lot more. Sometimes they are reading similar open spots and both end up there via different path ways, and sometimes one guy might read the D wrong and takes his route to an incorrect place which might lead to them being in the same spot. It is a downside of the offensive design, as well as execution. Same token, its very difficult to defend because there aren't as many tendencies for defenses to pick up on. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: I think some people here have watched every second of every Bills game, but have only watched highlights of the Bengals. People are talking about the Bengals like they are the 2007 Pats. This is correct, overly critical of the team in which you watch every snap and fear every team on the schedule they’ve not watched so closely. It’s lame. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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