B-Man Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 38 minutes ago, Roundybout said: What’s wrong with this? Nothing. Its a joke about McCarthy. Trump supported his re-election. Whatever string you are grasping at is all you. 😄 The House Democrats previously elected Rep. Hakeem Jeffries as their leader, and after Republican Kevin McCarthy was finally voted in as Speaker, Jeffries immediately demonstrated the kind of thing we might be subjected to for the next couple years. It’s the Democrat ABC’s, or something: Jeffries’ slam on “kangaroo courts” was pretty rich coming from a big fan of the January 6th Commission. But at least Jeffries’ letter “E” word wasn’t a slam on “election deniers,” so maybe that’s a self-awareness baby step. https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/01/07/hakeem-jeffries-democrat-alphabet-house-speech-breaks-cringe-meters-everywhere/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, B-Man said: Nothing. Its a joke about McCarthy. Trump supported his re-election. Whatever string you are grasping at is all you. 😄 The House Democrats previously elected Rep. Hakeem Jeffries as their leader, and after Republican Kevin McCarthy was finally voted in as Speaker, Jeffries immediately demonstrated the kind of thing we might be subjected to for the next couple years. It’s the Democrat ABC’s, or something: Jeffries’ slam on “kangaroo courts” was pretty rich coming from a big fan of the January 6th Commission. But at least Jeffries’ letter “E” word wasn’t a slam on “election deniers,” so maybe that’s a self-awareness baby step. https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/01/07/hakeem-jeffries-democrat-alphabet-house-speech-breaks-cringe-meters-everywhere/ It’s so comical all of projection in this rap song… Aside from that, his dance moves weren’t bad…😉 Edited January 7, 2023 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Taxes are way too high sucking 40, maybe 60 percent of some people's earnings. Huge government spending has sucked the life out of the American middle and working classes. All this is what, progress? But hey, on your way to the poorhouse and living in the streets you can rest at ease that you'll be addressed with your preferred pronouns. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/25/57percent-of-us-households-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2021-study.html. Wouldn't the 57% of people that paid no tax include most of the "middle and working classes"? another salient article: https://www.propublica.org/article/when-billionaires-dont-pay-taxes-people-lose-faith-in-democracy Edited January 7, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 8 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Dang! You support Medicare for all? They were being realistic. Could never pass. Too many wealthy (from money that should have gone to patient care) special interests. It will take massive public pressure to git'r done. Hop on the bandwagon with me! I found it sad and illuminating that so many on the board were concerned at how Damar would pay his medical bills. I jumped on the bandwagon in 2008 and voted for Obama cuz he was going to make significant changes to our health care system and bring down costs for everyone. Instead what we got was a system where if you are poor and can get a subsidy it works for you. Meanwhile the rest of us our prices have continued to rise year over year. Not sure I trust them to give it another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I jumped on the bandwagon in 2008 and voted for Obama cuz he was going to make significant changes to our health care system and bring down costs for everyone. Instead what we got was a system where if you are poor and can get a subsidy it works for you. Meanwhile the rest of us our prices have continued to rise year over year. Not sure I trust them to give it another go. I live in a region where two states (one deep red and one purple, Tenn and Va) supported and continue to support a hospital system monopoly in a geographic area the size of NJ. A great many of the hospital "customers" in this financially poor region are "insured" by gov't programs. So the states are actually promoting noncompetitive practices for gov't health spending while enabling large private profits. I share your pain and skepticism. There's something rotten in Appalachia and Nashville and Richmond. Edited January 7, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Westside said: You think they would be progressives? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well, they did like wearing wigs... 1 hour ago, B-Man said: Nothing. Its a joke about McCarthy. Trump supported his re-election. Whatever string you are grasping at is all you. 😄 The House Democrats previously elected Rep. Hakeem Jeffries as their leader, and after Republican Kevin McCarthy was finally voted in as Speaker, Jeffries immediately demonstrated the kind of thing we might be subjected to for the next couple years. It’s the Democrat ABC’s, or something: Jeffries’ slam on “kangaroo courts” was pretty rich coming from a big fan of the January 6th Commission. But at least Jeffries’ letter “E” word wasn’t a slam on “election deniers,” so maybe that’s a self-awareness baby step. https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/01/07/hakeem-jeffries-democrat-alphabet-house-speech-breaks-cringe-meters-everywhere/ Hak...is just that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 58 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/25/57percent-of-us-households-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2021-study.html. Wouldn't the 57% of people that paid no tax include most of the "middle and working classes"? another salient article: https://www.propublica.org/article/when-billionaires-dont-pay-taxes-people-lose-faith-in-democracy I won't dispute stats but that number isn't a sign of prosperity and instead a sign lots of people are falling into poverty. And that's my general argument, our standard of living and quality of life is deteriorating. Most people not paying taxes don't earn enough money. That's hardly a positive. How much billionaires pay is governed by how the tax law defines "income" for the tax year. Blame lobbyists for the wealthy, Congress, and the Chief Executive for that one. That's just how crony capitalism works where the politically connected get rich by gaming the system at the expense of the general population. If the voters don't like that then stop voting for establishment Democrats and Republicans. And the biggest tax of all is inflation. You can thank decades of loose Fed monetary policy and massive government borrowing and low-value spending. Unfortunately, I see all these bills coming due and things taking a big turn for the worse in 2023 for most people that aren't prepared or not even aware of things because they're fed constant BS from the media playing up the establishment's fairy tale all is great theme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: How much billionaires pay is governed by how the tax law defines "income" for the tax year. Blame lobbyists for the wealthy, Congress, and the Chief Executive for that one. That's just how crony capitalism works where the politically connected get rich by gaming the system at the expense of the general population. If the voters don't like that then stop voting for establishment Democrats and Republicans. Fully agree and yet it's of no concern to some here. I can't understand or rationalize that. The only group I see proposing changing that is the left. Re standard of living, I grew up in a single earner professional household in the 60's and 70's. We had 1 car which until I was in my teens was used, our house was about 1800 sq feet, we went on 1 vacation a year driving to Canada and we ate out occasionally. We ate well. No cell phones but we did have cable and a decent stereo. Most of my friends growing up were in similar situations. And yet we were better off than most. I have peers that went into the same profession and now live much more luxurious lifestyles. I would categorize both instances as upper middle class. I truly believe 2 earner middle class families often have significantly better lifestyles than 1 earner families or even 2 earner families ( women were paid very poorly, in general)) back then. The poor are just as poor now. And the rich are richer. Those are the extremes that need to be adjusted by tax policies imo. Just so happens, that's what Bernie proposes. Edited January 7, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, B-Man said: LOL. And (of course) he gets his first demand. Zelenskyy congratulates Kevin McCarthy & is counting on ‘further assistance’ https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/01/07/zelenskyy-congratulates-kevin-mccarthy-is-counting-on-further-assistance/ Biden and the left in 3….2…..1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Biden and the left in 3….2…..1 Maybe it's just me but I think he looks a lot more like this guy than Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: Fully agree and yet it's of no concern to some here. I can't understand or rationalize that. The only group I see proposing changing that is the left. Re standard of living, I grew up in a single earner professional household in the 60's and 70's. We had 1 car which until I was in my teens was used, our house was about 1800 sq feet, we went on 1 vacation a year driving to Canada and we ate out occasionally. We ate well. No cell phones but we did have cable and a decent stereo. Most of my friends growing up were in similar situations. And yet we were better off than most. I have peers that went into the same profession and now live much more luxurious lifestyles. I would categorize both instances as upper middle class. I truly believe 2 earner middle class families often have significantly better lifestyles than 1 earner families or even 2 earner families ( women were paid very poorly, in general)) back then. The poor are just as poor now. And the rich are richer. Those are the extremes that need to be adjusted by tax policies imo. Just so happens, that's what Bernie proposes. What the $&@? It is definitely NOT the job of the federal government to ‘adjust’ people’s incomes after they have earned them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Maybe it's just me but I think he looks a lot more like this guy than Biden. I think I follow your reference but I suppose I didn’t set that up very well. That’s supposed to be a GIF with Dwight shunning someone on the show. The point was now that Zelensky has said something positive to a Republican, his days as darling of the left are likely over. As for Andrew Clyde and supporting Officer Fanone, I was disgusted by the 1/6 attacks and support prosecution for offenders, and support generally the police officers who stood guard that day. I still wonder why they were overmatched and overrun, how the Capitol was breached that day, and think partisan politics and a willingness to sacrifice a few officers was part of the bigger plan. That said, I’m not sure there could be a bigger bunch of s***bags (Bernie Sanders included) in dem politics than many there now as it relates to supporting law enforcement outside of the ones that protect them personally. It would be awesome to see them (and liberals generally) tone down the rhetoric directed against law enforcement, and give the same benefit of the doubt they have to the officer who dispatched Ashley Babbitt on 1/6. Edited January 8, 2023 by leh-nerd skin-erd 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: What the $&@? It is definitely NOT the job of the federal government to ‘adjust’ people’s incomes after they have earned them! maybe you should run as a libertarian? I'm sure you'd get at least 5% of the vote if you were a really good candidate. Assuming you are 100% against progressive taxation. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: maybe you should run as a libertarian? I'm sure you'd get at least 5% of the vote if you were a really good candidate. Assuming you are 100% against progressive taxation. I am indeed against progressive taxation. It has gotten us into the fiscal mess we now find ourselves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I am indeed against progressive taxation. It has gotten us into the fiscal mess we now find ourselves in. a conservative analysis of flat tax. Doesn't even mention the poor who would clearly be adversely affected. This seems purely from an upper middle class and above perspective and the conclusion is still against a flat tax https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/flat-tax-impact-on-saving-and-the-economy/ Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Just now, redtail hawk said: a conservative analysis of flat tax. Doesn't even mention the poor who would clearly be adversely affected. This seems purely from a upper middle class and above perspective and the conclusion is still against a flat tax https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/flat-tax-impact-on-saving-and-the-economy/ Isn’t sales tax a flat tax? Isn’t property tax a flat tax? These type is studies are done to support a pre-drawn conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Isn’t sales tax a flat tax? Isn’t property tax a flat tax? These type is studies are done to support a pre-drawn conclusion. Yes, this is obviously about federal income and withholding tax. I haven't seen much chatter about making the examples that you cite becoming progressive. This isn't a study but an opinion which while limited in perspective seems pretty logical to me and well considered. I think loopholes that allow billionaires to pay little or no tax could be closed without invoking a flat tax. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think I follow your reference but I suppose I didn’t set that up very well. That’s supposed to be a GIF with Dwight shunning someone on the show. The point was now that Zelensky has said something positive to a Republican, his days as darling of the left are likely over. As for Andrew Clyde and supporting Officer Fanone, I was disgusted by the 1/6 attacks and support prosecution for offenders, and support generally the police officers who stood guard that day. I still wonder why they were overmatched and overrun, how the Capitol was breached that day, and think partisan politics and a willingness to sacrifice a few officers was part of the bigger plan. Zelensky is trying to ensure continued US support for his country. Pretty understandable, right? Still, he knows where the most support is and who actually believe a proxy war against Russia is worthwhile to protect against Russian expansion, colonialism, power concentration and honor NATO obligations. Those people, who are mostly Dems (esp in the house) will stick by him and Ukraine. If you call that isolationism versus globalism, you wouldn't be far off. We live in a small, dangerous world. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 33 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Yes, this is obviously about federal income and withholding tax. I haven't seen much chatter about making the examples that you cite becoming progressive. This isn't a study but an opinion which while limited in perspective seems pretty logical to me and well considered. I think loopholes that allow billionaires to pay little or no tax could be closed without invoking a flat tax. I’m actually fine with some progression and getting rid of ALL ‘loopholes’ and deductions. You should be able to do your taxes on a 3x5 card. Too many people making too much money off the complexities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 hours ago, redtail hawk said: a conservative analysis of flat tax. Doesn't even mention the poor who would clearly be adversely affected. This seems purely from an upper middle class and above perspective and the conclusion is still against a flat tax https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/flat-tax-impact-on-saving-and-the-economy/ There is a way to do national sales tax without being unfair to poor. https://fairtax.org/about/how-fairtax-works Quote Get a Tax Refund in Advance on Purchases of Basic Necessities The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families. Learn more . Quote The current federal income tax system is clearly broken — unfair, overly complex, and almost impossible for most Americans to understand. But there is a reasonable, nonpartisan alternative before Congress that is both fair and easy to understand. A system that allows you to keep your whole paycheck and only pay taxes on what you spend. The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated! Everyone gets a check to cover taxes up to the poverty line. No taxes under the poverty or some other determined line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 18 hours ago, Tiberius said: People over politics. OK. Sure. He's campaigning. This will work great when he runs for President in 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 12 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Fully agree and yet it's of no concern to some here. I can't understand or rationalize that. The only group I see proposing changing that is the left. ...... Those are the extremes that need to be adjusted by tax policies imo. Just so happens, that's what Bernie proposes. Is this serious? The recent performance of our "lawmakers" screams to limit their power, not advance it. The recent 1.7 trillion omnibus appropriations bill is absolute proof that the single greatest path to fiscal tragedy is to allow them more power to decide how people's earnings are "distributed." I have a hard time believing anybody would support such a scheme, not that we haven't been warned. "“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 13 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Fully agree and yet it's of no concern to some here. I can't understand or rationalize that. The only group I see proposing changing that is the left. Re standard of living, I grew up in a single earner professional household in the 60's and 70's. We had 1 car which until I was in my teens was used, our house was about 1800 sq feet, we went on 1 vacation a year driving to Canada and we ate out occasionally. We ate well. No cell phones but we did have cable and a decent stereo. Most of my friends growing up were in similar situations. And yet we were better off than most. I have peers that went into the same profession and now live much more luxurious lifestyles. I would categorize both instances as upper middle class. I truly believe 2 earner middle class families often have significantly better lifestyles than 1 earner families or even 2 earner families ( women were paid very poorly, in general)) back then. The poor are just as poor now. And the rich are richer. Those are the extremes that need to be adjusted by tax policies imo. Just so happens, that's what Bernie proposes. The poor are not the same kind of poor now as previously. I used to have a job that would cause me to have to enter people's homes and people that lived on welfare would have multiple tvs, multiple video game systems, plenty of clothes and food. Now if your point is that since the government has taken over as our primary charity distributor that some people can live very well on welfare while others can't even get housing, you are correct but government is much more the cause than the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: The poor are not the same kind of poor now as previously. I used to have a job that would cause me to have to enter people's homes and people that lived on welfare would have multiple tvs, multiple video game systems, plenty of clothes and food. Now if your point is that since the government has taken over as our primary charity distributor that some people can live very well on welfare while others can't even get housing, you are correct but government is much more the cause than the solution. The governmnet is the cause of what? Poverty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: The poor are not the same kind of poor now as previously. I used to have a job that would cause me to have to enter people's homes and people that lived on welfare would have multiple tvs, multiple video game systems, plenty of clothes and food. Now if your point is that since the government has taken over as our primary charity distributor that some people can live very well on welfare while others can't even get housing, you are correct but government is much more the cause than the solution. Ever worked at a food bank and watched the people file in? Ever packed backpacks for school kids to ensure they get a meal that day? Visit Appalachia. See the old, rusty, drafty trailers. Actually, just go to a trailer park near you. Check out one of these sometime and watch people queue to have teeth pulled. https://www.ramusa.org. There are "real" poor. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 37 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Ever worked at a food bank and watched the people file in? Ever packed backpacks for school kids to ensure they get a meal that day? Visit Appalachia. See the old, rusty, drafty trailers. Actually, just go to a trailer park near you. Check out one of these sometime and watch people queue to have teeth pulled. https://www.ramusa.org. There are "real" poor. This is an age old debate. It is not the government’s job to eliminate poverty. It’s the government’s job to ensure that there aren’t state regulated systems in place that prevent upward mobility. (Which by the way is different from people not taking advantage of opportunities that exist.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 The same people who tried to tell you what a disaster and embarrassment it was for "our democracy" that it took several days to elect a new speaker also told you that it's perfectly normal to take weeks to count votes to determine election winners. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: The same people who tried to tell you what a disaster and embarrassment it was for "our democracy" that it took several days to elect a new speaker also told you that it's perfectly normal to take weeks to count votes to determine election winners. They’re also the same people who applauded the week long pressure/bribery of a certain West Virginia senator to pass a recent spending boondoggle. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Will Kevin McCarthy Be The Speaker Of The House? -- Yes Or Mitch Senate Majority Leader? --- No End thread. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 41 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: The same people who tried to tell you what a disaster and embarrassment it was for "our democracy" that it took several days to elect a new speaker also told you that it's perfectly normal to take weeks to count votes to determine election winners. 36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: They’re also the same people who applauded the week long pressure/bribery of a certain West Virginia senator to pass a recent spending boondoggle. Just remember, their beliefs on election process, denials, conspiracy theories and strong-arming to get votes are more important than yours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: This is an age old debate. It is not the government’s job to eliminate poverty. It’s the government’s job to ensure that there aren’t state regulated systems in place that prevent upward mobility. (Which by the way is different from people not taking advantage of opportunities that exist.) My post was to dispel the notion that there aren't poor people in the US. This https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/americas-poor-are-worse-off-than-elsewhere/ should make anyone with a conscience want to change things. US is 26th out of 26 in this analysis. We can do much better. We are still the richest country in the World (for those that aren't poor). You can judge a society by how the weakest are treated. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Just now, redtail hawk said: My post was to dispel the idea that there aren't poor peopled in the US. This https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/americas-poor-are-worse-off-than-elsewhere/ should make anyone with a conscience want to change things. US is 26th out of 26 in this analysis. We can do much better. We are still the richest country in the World (for those that aren't poor). You can judge a society by how the weakest are treated. The weakest? I like to judge a society on how much opportunity is provided and I’d suggest that we wouldn’t see millions of people willing to break our laws just to get into America year after year if they didn’t believe we indeed still provide that opportunity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The weakest? I like to judge a society on how much opportunity is provided and I’d suggest that we wouldn’t see millions of people willing to break our laws just to get into America year after year if they didn’t believe we indeed still provide that opportunity. Yeah, there aren't many refugees from the collective 25 industrialized nations above us. Are there poorer countries? Of course. So what? It's not something to take pride in. Do you think opportunities don't exist in Switzerland for example? Go to Davos sometime and see what you think. It's not either/or. It can be both. Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Yeah, there aren't many refugees from the collective 25 industrialized nations above us. Are there poorer countries? Of course. So what? It's not something to take pride in. Do you think opportunities don't exist in Switzerland for example? Go to Davos sometime and see what you think. I have literally no idea where you’re going with any of this anymore. This conversation has gone off the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: I have literally no idea where you’re going with any of this anymore. This conversation has gone off the rails. sad but unsurprising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: sad but unsurprising Sure…whatever Keep pushing for your all encompassing utopian safety net. It’s worked really well so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Sure…whatever Keep pushing for your all encompassing utopian safety net. It’s worked really well so far. I don't believe the Swiss live in Utopia but I'd rather be closer to their standards than further away from them than Mexico. someone asked what I liked about Bernie. Much of it has to do with the above. I'm not naive. I don't see Bernie ever becoming president. But he is the Socratic gadfly that moves us further towards humanism and compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 34 minutes ago, Doc said: Just remember, their beliefs on election process, denials, conspiracy theories and strong-arming to get votes are more important than yours. stealing someone else's response here....Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffarukus Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: I don't believe the Swiss live in Utopia but I'd rather be closer to their standards than further away from them than Mexico. someone asked what I liked about Bernie. Much of it has to do with the above. I'm not naive. I don't see Bernie ever becoming president. But he is the Socratic gadfly that moves us further towards humanism and compassion. not to jump in but reading your posts you seem to always go with the most extreme circumstance. socal talks about how the "poor" seem to maintain a very high standard of living and you talk about the truley poor and humanism and compassion. i think there is a middle ground ignored by the bernies/ progressives of the world. wherever there is compassion and empathy there are people more then willing to exploit it. in this aspect i think charity should be individualized not stolen against ones will by force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Buffarukus said: not to jump in but reading your posts you seem to always go with the most extreme circumstance. socal talks about how the "poor" seem to maintain a very high standard of living and you talk about the truley poor and humanism and compassion. i think there is a middle ground ignored by the bernies/ progressives of the world. wherever there is compassion and empathy there are people more then willing to exploit it. in this aspect i think charity should be individualized not stolen against ones will by force. Well if Socal got his way there would be far fewer donations to charity because he wants to take away tax deductions for them. I guess it wouldn't matter to the trumps of the world but it would matter Edited January 8, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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