How valuable is Hyde really?

[FreddieJizzle22]

He's a lot more valuable than this thread.  Sheesh.

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

Scored a TD on every drive of a playoff game against an opponent that ate our lunch for the two decades prior.  That was an instant classic.

 

 

that opponent wasn't on the field.

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I asked if anyone thought it was possible, yes.

 

I have no doubt he will play next year for someone.

 

I think you should have doubt on that point.

 

Hyde and his camp have put out the narrative "healthy return in 2023", but the data are that roughly 2/3 return to play and 1/3 don't.

33% chance of not returning ain't small bananas

 

Which is why trade interest will be limited.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

It was for a lot of us. After watching 20 years of frustration being unleashed and dealt out in the playoffs in front of the NFL world it was.

 

All I could think of after the game was Ralphie beating the heck out of Farkus (his bully) in Christmas Story.

I have a lot of non-Bills fans who contacted me after that game and they almost enjoyed seeing the Pats get destroyed as much as we did.

 

 

It wasn't Farkus.  It was more like Randy

[Beck Water]

 

13 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Oh no. This was someone openly questioning whether we should trade Tre because the rookies are playing so well.

 

Really?  I'm aware of the "move Tre to Safety" thread, but I musta missed that and can't find it.

 

Here's the Safety gem:

 

[julian]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

that opponent wasn't on the field.

I guess you could say that about any team not only from season to season but game to game, every roster fluctuates weekly.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

13 hours ago, Big Turk said:

You don't miss them...until you do. Eventually there will be a game where Hyde would have made a play Hamlin doesn't.

 

Arguably UNBEATEN if Hyde &/or Poyer play in Miami (there would have been no 3rd & 22 conversion)!

[teef]

46 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah but what if it's not the answer you like.  You can just keep moving goal posts right?

if you need the attention...yes.  

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Damn, I hate this thread so much.  Hyde has been either the 2nd or 3rd (Diggs is in there) most important player in turning this franchise around from its poverty drought phase to its SB contender phase.  
 

How valuable is he, really?  He’s tremendously valuable and if his replacements do a good job then credit to him on that, too.

 

Completely separate question about resigning him or letting him walk.  That’s a valid question when the time comes.  But the very title of this thread is insulting.

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Going off OvertheCap.com (which is not gospel but does provide a sensible baseline IMO) the figured cap relief from potential restructures next year are as follows:

 

White: $5,880,000

Allen: $21,536,000

Diggs: $5,596,000

Morse: $3,287,500

Dawkins: $6,393,750

HYDE: $4,301,250

Miller: $10,864,000

Milano: $6,315,000

 

Grand Total: $64,173,500

 

Granted they will not do all of those restructures. But they have plenty of wiggle room to play with. Notice also that a restructure (or an extension for that matter) with Hyde would actually save a bit more than a trade or cut. Add into that the fact that the salary cap will jump again next year...what's the problem?

 

You also mention Poyer by name as an "at who's expense" example. Well he will be 32 next year, has a growing list of injuries (including a collapsed lung this year) and would cost zero dead money to part ways with next season as he's not under contract. That seems like the obvious move if someone has to be left out. Why give him a contract if, like you said Hamlin costs less than $1 million. And yes Hamiln can play both spots back there.

 

 

 

 

Hamlin can play both spots-  but he can’t play them like Poyer and Hyde.  If Hamlin was replacing Poyer vs Baltimore- we’d have lost 💯 imo

it’s tough to gauge what players are worth on this well oiled machine and I don’t envy Beane 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by NewEra

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, teef said:

if you need the attention...yes.  

 

You two should go to a Blink182 concert.  

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, julian said:

I guess you could say that about any team not only from season to season but game to game, every roster fluctuates weekly.

 

 

That's not the point I was responding to.

[Logic]

I knew who started this thread before I even looked at the name. 

This is an Einstein special right here.
 

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

“Any fool can know, the point is to understand” - Albert Einstein

 

The single worst part of sport discussion forums is groupthink.

 

On this forum, groupthink coincides with an attack on anyone that gives even the slightest criticism of a current starter, coach, owner, or anyone affiliated with the team.

 

There is no room for understanding, predicting, analyzing and speaking truth to potentials departures. All room is taken up by the “knowing” crowd - those that “know” that another poster is wrong, should post less, etc. Your post above, in a nutshell.

 

Prior to the onslaught of “knowers” bashing my thread, several people had agreed with it. One deleted their post (they were one of the first responses), and another edited their post to say something different. This is because they don’t want to go against the crowd. Groupthink.

 

Dude, I believe in another post you objected to the 'ad hominem' - people substituting personal insults for meaningful debate - and rightly so.

 

Please understand that accusing those who disagree with you of "groupthink" (not wanting to go against the crowd) shows similar bankruptcy of argument skill and data as a debating tactic to the "ad hominem".  (There's probably a catchy latin phrase for it, but I don't know it)

 

This is a message board.  None of us are risking employment, public office, church leadership, or the safety of our families by posting here.   The chances that any of the folks here are "afraid" to express their opinion for fear of peer pressure is low to nil.

 

Moreover, many of us regularly express viewpoints others disagree with and wind up having civil debates about it until we reach an understanding of where we "agree to disagree" because we identify the base point where we see things differently.

 

You made a somewhat controversial post.  When disagreed with, you have yet to bolster much further evidence to your argument, you're turning to a "y'all are just Sheep, brainwashed to follow the herd" variant.  It doesn't make you look like your namesake, it makes you look Weak Sauce as a poster.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You two should go to a Blink182 concert.  

i'd use him for the ride, but i'd really prefer out seats not be together.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Hyde is the man, he is very valuable.  Don't like this thread.

[Einstein]

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

i don't think there's much trade market for a 32 yr old DB coming off neck surgery at $7.2M

 

If that is the case (and i’m not saying you’re wrong), then how valuable is he really?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would not trade even a 7th rounder for him?

 

How valuable is a player that 31 NFL teams would rather draft a guy they will likely cut, than trade for him?

[machine gun kelly]

Men, we’re onto Cincinatti.  Moving on.  Trolls will be trolls.

[Einstein]

38 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I understand the vitriol coming out in this thread, however I think it's relevant in a more broad sense. 

 

These are the types of questions that makes GMs GMs! It's a constant cost/benefit question, can't keep everyone, if you can can keep good performance out of a group with someone cheaper, and thus bring up a weaker group,  you have to consider it.

 

I love Hyde, I feel like I'm in the minority that leans towards him over Poyer.

However, say you can move on from one of the two, in exchange for better guard play.... do you do it? How much better does it buy you from guard position?

 

These are all offseason questions and things Beane will be constantly analyzing.

 

Yep.

Beane is surely thinking about this, even if fans don’t want to.

 

In fact I think he was thinking about it when he gave Hyde only a 2 year extension with an out after the 1st year.

[TH3]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

Since Hyde has been out, our defense has given up 16 points per game. More impressively, they gave up only 20 to the high powered Chiefs.

 

🥵 I think you can make the argument that the Bills would have beaten the Dolphins with Hyde playing - that 3rd and 22(?) pass to Hill likely doesn’t happen. But then again, it may not have happened with Poyer playing. They were both out that game.

 

👉  I am certainly not saying we are better without Hyde… but I am asking, how much worse are we really? And does extending (or going into a contract year at $11M cap hit) worth not having a slight drop in quality?

 

Could we trade him for a draft asset?

 

💰 We have a potential “out” with his contact this off-season. It would save us about $4 million in cap space ($11M cap savings minus $7M in dead cap).

 

Hamlin & Johnson combined account for 1/5th of Hyde’s cap hit next year.

 

Poyer is 115 days younger than Hyde. If we had to pick one safety to keep, I think I may lean toward Poyer over Hyde.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

Hyde on the HOTSEAT