SCBills Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Everyone I’ve listened to that has studied tape says Elam looks good on film. No idea what the problem is. I’d say our coaches have given us no reason not to trust them, re: the secondary, but man.. Dane is testing my patience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I’m not local has anyone heard of what he might have done to get into the doghouse? late from practice? Late fora team flight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, djp14150 said: I’m not local has anyone heard of what he might have done to get into the doghouse? pretty sure it involved ranch dressing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 45 minutes ago, FireChans said: NotGreatBob.gif Folks are fliping out, but yall need to realize that if everyone (Tre) had been healthy from the start of the season then this is exactly what we would have been seeing all along. With no big worry as to when the kid would develop. Tre obviously has the #1 spot down. And even with the 1st round pedigree, the 3 year vet has the edge over Elam. We'll see if/when the kid can develop and beat out the vet but I'd be surprised if it happened this year. I'll start to get concerned if he is still sitting next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Folks are fliping out, but yall need to realize that if everyone (Tre) had been healthy from the start of the season then this is exactly what we would have been seeing all along. With no big worry as to when the kid would develop. Tre obviously has the #1 spot down. And even with the 1st round pedigree, the 3 year vet has the edge over Elam. We'll see if/when the kid can develop and beat out the vet but I'd be surprised if it happened this year. I'll start to get concerned if he is still sitting next year. Counterpoint: Tre White as a rookie (#27 overall) was an unquestioned starter out of the box, which he maintained his entire rookie year. Kaiir Elam (#23 overall) went from rotational starter, to full time starter for a few games, to benched. This after letting our unquestioned #2 CB walk in FA which basically opened up a starting spot in our defense. That's... less than ideal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, FireChans said: Counterpoint: Tre White as a rookie (#27 overall) was an unquestioned starter out of the box, which he maintained his entire rookie year. Kaiir Elam (#23 overall) went from rotational starter, to full time starter for a few games, to benched. This after letting our unquestioned #2 CB walk in FA which basically opened up a starting spot in our defense. That's... less than ideal He was an unquestioned starter while competing with the likes of EJ Gaines, Leonard Johnson, and Lafayette Pitts for playing time. We started Nathan Peterman as a rookie that year too. Heck, all the rookies started considering the lack of talent on the team, Beane wanting to see what he had as he took over, and the Bills' sights set on drafting a QB as high as possible the next year. Tre was great right out of the blocks, I wont deny that. But the situation, and talent levels, were completely different. He wasnt coming to an established team with talented vets in an established system. Elam mostly got playing time early this year for the same reason Benford and JaMarcus Ingram got playing time. Injuries forced the rookies in. We'll see how he develops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: He was an unquestioned starter while competing with the likes of EJ Gaines, Leonard Johnson, and Lafayette Pitts for playing time. We started Nathan Peterman as a rookie that year too. Heck, all the rookies started considering the lack of talent on the team, Beane wanting to see what he had as he took over, and the Bills' sights set on drafting a QB as high as possible the next year. Tre was great right out of the blocks, I wont deny that. But the situation, and talent levels, were completely different. He wasnt coming to an established team with talented vets in an established system. Elam mostly got playing time early this year for the same reason Benford and JaMarcus Ingram got playing time. Injuries forced the rookies in. We'll see how he develops. We started Nate Peterman midway through the year, not week 1. I think it's crazy to think that it's not bad news that Elam can't get on the field when he was definitely drafted to be a starter. He was our first round pick lol. The plan was not healthy scratch and then 1 snap on ST by the midpoint of the season lol. Rousseau with a similar draft status and a similar log jam of vets at his position was routinely playing 50% of snaps all of last year. Just because McBeane don't regularly make rookies focal points doesn't mean they don't expect them to be contributors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, FireChans said: Counterpoint: Tre White as a rookie (#27 overall) was an unquestioned starter out of the box, which he maintained his entire rookie year. Kaiir Elam (#23 overall) went from rotational starter, to full time starter for a few games, to benched. This after letting our unquestioned #2 CB walk in FA which basically opened up a starting spot in our defense. That's... less than ideal Big difference is whan Tre came in in 2017 the other CBs were not very good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, artmalibu said: Big difference is whan Tre came in in 2017 the other CBs were not very good.. Do you think Dane Jackson is immensely superior to Elam? If yes, then I would argue that's not good lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: Rousseau with a similar draft status and a similar log jam of vets at his position was routinely playing 50% of snaps all of last year. Just because McBeane don't regularly make rookies focal points doesn't mean they don't expect them to be contributors. The DL rotates. The DBs dont. Rousseau wasnt close to starting over Hughes and Addison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Elam will be fine and my bet is he will play significant snaps come playoff time as the Bills will likely move him to D up the likes of Kelce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 19 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: The DL rotates. The DBs dont. Rousseau wasnt close to starting over Hughes and Addison. Rousseau was also not a healthy scratch lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 The coaches are weird about the db's saying even before the season started that Dane earned that spot and someone would have to take it from him. What exactly did he do to earn that spot besides have Wallace walk to a different team? I'm sick of this coaching bias where such and such guy earned their spot. How about best player on Sundays plays? That goes for Shakir over McKenzie too. It should be open competition at every position every week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: The coaches are weird about the db's saying even before the season started that Dane earned that spot and someone would have to take it from him. What exactly did he do to earn that spot besides have Wallace walk to a different team? I'm sick of this coaching bias where such and such guy earned their spot. How about best player on Sundays plays? That goes for Shakir over McKenzie too. It should be open competition at every position every week Except Shakir much like Cook misses blocking assignments all the time which is a major sin and will cut your time in this offense. In means you don’t know your fundamentals. I think they see that in Elam at times too. They refuse to lose a playoff game on a blown coverage so they instead will let Dane blow tackles instead. Edited December 12, 2022 by Locomark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said: Until the last drive Dane was burned a lot in the second half. He's been bad the last 3 to 4 games. He's undersized & reacts late. It's been commented on by Joe Bascaglia, Greg Cosell & others & showed up today. This stubborn insistence to rely on Vets by McD is a short sighted weakness. He should play the best player & Dane ain't it. I mean this “short sighted weakness” to not play Elam over Dane has resulted in defensive dominance these past 2 weeks giving up 10 points each week only. I think maybe he sorta knows what he’s doing with those kind of results. I honestly don’t understand why so much talk about defensive concerns when the defense is thriving and the offense is what has been struggling more with consistency. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I mean this “short sighted weakness” to not play Elam over Dane has resulted in defensive dominance these past 2 weeks giving up 10 points each week only. I think maybe he sorta knows what he’s doing with those kind of results. I honestly don’t understand why so much talk about defensive concerns when the defense is thriving and the offense is what has been struggling more with consistency. It's not the Jets or Pats pass offense that concerns me (easier to look good on D versus them). It's KC, Cinci, Miami we need to be ready for. Dane doesn't look like he's up for those tests. Should see what Elam has & get him ready, he looked good 2 weeks ago (Joe Bascaglia even thought his reps were going to increase, instead he was inactive). Hopefully they're right, Dane just seems to get beat consistently. We shall see next week & in 3 weeks against Cinci. 🤞 I completely agree offense is way more concerning than D at this point. But this was a D./Elam thread. Edited December 12, 2022 by Donuts and Doritos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 The fact that he can’t beat out Dane is a big problem. Maybe it’s just the way McD handles his rookies…..but it’s alarming considering Danes level of play this year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I mean this “short sighted weakness” to not play Elam over Dane has resulted in defensive dominance these past 2 weeks giving up 10 points each week only. I think maybe he sorta knows what he’s doing with those kind of results. I honestly don’t understand why so much talk about defensive concerns when the defense is thriving and the offense is what has been struggling more with consistency. For me, personally, Dane is fine if he can get out of his slump and start playing the ball better .. but he doesn’t have the talent Kaiir Elam has. We drafted a corner in RD1 (traded up even). Many of us were hopeful to see White/Elam heading into the playoffs to battle with the high powered offenses we may see. Dane has been a weak point in - yes - some recent dominant defensive performances. Elam, on tape, has done nothing to warrant this pseudo-benching. It is what it is. This staff knows corners. We’ll have a better feel soon enough with Miami and Cinci coming up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Dr.Sack said: Elam will be fine and my bet is he will play significant snaps come playoff time as the Bills will likely move him to D up the likes of Kelce. Awesome, benched to covering Kelce in a loser goes home situation. ***** great, no problems there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I mean this “short sighted weakness” to not play Elam over Dane has resulted in defensive dominance these past 2 weeks giving up 10 points each week only. I think maybe he sorta knows what he’s doing with those kind of results. I honestly don’t understand why so much talk about defensive concerns when the defense is thriving and the offense is what has been struggling more with consistency. This brain trust spent a 1st round pick on a corner rather than bolstering the offense. The glaring weakness on the defensive side is Dane Jackson. Elam is bigger, faster, and seems to be more of a ball hawk. Jackson gets beat routinely when covering talented receivers. Wasting a 1st round pick is bad for business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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