What the Defense is really missing...

[mjt328]

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

[NewEra]

Proper game plans.

[Augie]

There is ALWAYS room for improvement, but if anyone spends too much time hating on what we saw last year, that is their problem. We had a lot more ups than downs. And we were missing our best defensive player much of the year. We get Tre back next season. I like our chances. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I wish the Bills threw in some 3 man rushes vs KC. I don't think man is the answer vs KC. We're not going to pay for the type of man CBs needed, and even those guys are getting beat by Hill.

 

The Bills coaches just have to have a better plan and adjust better to Mahomes making plays out of the pocket.

[whorlnut]

12 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

I totally agree. People have the benefit of recency in determining that we need to add to the defense. I argue that the defense is pretty much loaded with really good to great players and wasn’t ranked number one by accident. 
 

This staff may be the best in the entire league in getting the most out of DBs. They made viable starters out of an undrafted FA and seventh round pick. That’s why I can’t for the life of me understand why we need a first round corner like most all outlets are saying. We can find a very good player in round 3 or 4 that would more than likely turn out to be an upgrade. 

[msw2112]

I agree that the Bills need to make some tweaks to give more looks to opponents and make the defense less predictable.  There are talented players on the defense, but not enough guys that can take over a game under all circumstances.  With a little more creativity and deception, they can improve.  They need the defensive equivalent of the improved run and short passing games that helped our offense improve.  A full healthy season from Phillips, paired with Oliver, should solidify the interior line and some new looks might help Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa get to the QB more.  A healthy Tre will be a huge boon too.

[mjt328]

5 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

This staff may be the best in the entire league in getting the most out of DBs. They made viable starters out of an undrafted FA and seventh round pick. That’s why I can’t for the life of me understand why we need a first round corner like most all outlets are saying. We can find a very good player in round 3 or 4 that would more than likely turn out to be an upgrade. 

 

The staff has gotten strong production out of guys like Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson and EJ Gaines.

But none of those guys have come close to the All-Pro/Pro-Bowl level we get from Tre White... who was a 1st Round Pick.

 

There is a lot of CB talent in this draft, so I agree we could wait and address it later.

 

But I think a versatile CB who could play both zone/man would push this team over the top.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, mjt328 said:

 

The staff has gotten strong production out of guys like Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson and EJ Gaines.

But none of those guys have come close to the All-Pro/Pro-Bowl level we get from Tre White... who was a 1st Round Pick.

 

There is a lot of CB talent in this draft, so I agree we could wait and address it later.

 

But I think a versatile CB who could play both zone/man would push this team over the top.

 

They've done very well drafting DBs. I think this year they draft another one pretty early.

 

You're still not likely to find one that goes man vs Hill. 

[Maine-iac]

I think Oliver and Phillips stepping up mixed with White being healthy would have done it.  I was somewhat impressed with the Bengals pass rush but the truly impressive thing was their coverage.  Mohommes couldn't find anyone on several occasions.  I think with White healthy and a step forward from our younger players we could be there.  Speaking about the game over all.  That 13 seconds on the other hand ............ something there had to be coached differently.  I'll always believe that.

[OldTimer1960]

27 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

I agree with your premise.  I don’t fully agree that front 7 is generally undersized.  Oliver is light for his position as is Milano (but not by much).  Phillips and Star are not really undersized, nor is Edmonds.  
 

I think that in those games that D got splattered by run it was refusal to commit more defenders to the run.  Likewise, pedestrian sack numbers are partially due to lack of blitzing LBs and stunting and oTher “games” by DL.  For a team that often rushes only 4 vs 5 OL plus a RB, is it any wonder they don’t get more sacks?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

I think Oliver and Phillips stepping up mixed with White being healthy would have done it.  I was somewhat impressed with the Bengals pass rush but the truly impressive thing was their coverage.  Mohommes couldn't find anyone on several occasions.  I think with White healthy and a step forward from our younger players we could be there.  Speaking about the game over all.  That 13 seconds on the other hand ............ something there had to be coached differently.  I'll always believe that.

Bengals switched it up dropped 8, played single high. Took away Mahomes quick throws and his ability to make plays out of the pocket. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They've done very well drafting DBs. I think this year they draft another one pretty early.

 

You're still not likely to find one that goes man vs Hill. 

This is exactly what I’m saying. We aren’t stopping offenses like the chiefs. No one is. If they don’t play well, it’s because they are having an off night. What are we gonna do if we pass on a guy like Jameson Williams or Treylon Burks and the chiefs take them?  Then you are asking your first round corner to cover guys like Hill, Hardman, top rookie. All you end up doing is keep chasing your tail. 

8 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

I think Oliver and Phillips stepping up mixed with White being healthy would have done it.  I was somewhat impressed with the Bengals pass rush but the truly impressive thing was their coverage.  Mohommes couldn't find anyone on several occasions.  I think with White healthy and a step forward from our younger players we could be there.  Speaking about the game over all.  That 13 seconds on the other hand ............ something there had to be coached differently.  I'll always believe that.

Yes. Exactly. We have the personnel on defense. The coaches let us down. 

[Alphadawg7]

Tre White doesn't get hurt, we would have been Super Bowl Champions this year.  I firmly believe that.  We don't lose that KC game with a healthy Tre White.  And I am confident even without Tre we would have beaten Cincy and Rams, and supremely confident we do with him.  

 

Good post OP...anyone looking to tear down last years D doesn't know what they are talking about

 

[TBBills]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Good post OP...anyone looking to tear down last years D doesn't know what they are talking about

People just want to get rid of Fraizer not tear the defense down, big difference. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, TBBills said:

People just want to get rid of Fraizer not tear the defense down, big difference. 

 

Count me in that camp...I was so disappointed when Daboll got the Giants job instead of Miami because I knew NY was the only possible way Frazier was going to be somewhere else next season.

 

I don't hate Frazier, but I also would love to see what another DC could do with this group, especially in using Edmunds differently.  

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

1.  A middle linebacker. 
2. A stud D end 

As much as I would love to eliminate the "bend don't break" style that we've seen dating back to the SB years, versatility is very tough to accomplish with a cap in place.

    When we play a Tennessee or Indy we need certain specific players to stop the run. When we play a top qb we need an elite pass rusher. And when we play the weaker teams that we dominated last season by 10+ points,  we can simply run our standard scheme with is all-inclusive. 

    I'd love to have the luxury and cap room to have specialty depth players that are run steppers or qb disruptors. But that's not realistic. We're at the mercy of McD making the proper scheme adjustments based on our offensive opponent. I was screaming for a 5th Dlineman while Taylor was completely destroying us. It never happened. 

[PrimeTime101]

The defense is missing speed on the back end. Poyer and Hyde are great, but we are limited by their speed. We need a sackmaster? Who Steps up? Who can we find?

Some will disagree but we need an upgrade from Edmunds. 

[Malazan]

well, with teh TBD brain trust on this issue. I expect it to be resolved in no time. 

 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

We led the league in fewest yards allowed and fewest points allowed, 4th in takeaways and we led the league in fewest yards allowed pre drive.  Basically, the exact opposite of the 'bend don't break' philosophy you said the team uses.

 

The only major piece I believe we are missing is a consistent pass rush that produces sacks. Other than that, our defense is at or near the top in all other important categories.

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We led the league in fewest yards allowed and fewest points allowed, 4th in takeaways and we led the league in fewest yards allowed pre drive.  Basically, the exact opposite of the 'bend don't break' philosophy you said the team uses.

 

The only major piece I believe we are missing is a consistent pass rush that produces sacks. Other than that, our defense is at or near the top in all other important categories.

Bingo. Exactly right. The same people that say we need more speed on defense ignore the fact that we were dead last in the league in yards after the catch on offense. We really didn’t play well offensively until the second half of the Bucs game. I’m not betting anything that what we saw afterwards is sustainable until we add some more playmakers on the offensive side. As long as we have Allen, we need to do right by him and get him weapons like the chiefs have done for Mahomes.