Buffalo Bills’ salary cap ramifications of cutting DT Star Lotulelei

[RyanC883]

11 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

There are other players that have contracts with cap saving potential.

 

Mitch Morse 2022 cap hit 11.25M, dead cap hit 3.75M

Jordan Poyer  2022 cap hit 10.7M, dead cap hit 3.6M (keep)

Micah Hyde 2022 cap hit 10.2M, dead cap hit 5M (keep)

Daryl Williams 2022 cap hit 9.925M, dead cap hit 3.6M

Cole Beasley 2022 cap hit 7.6M, dead cap hit 1.5M

AJ Klien 2022 cap hit 5.76M, dead cap hit .4M

Jon Feliciano 2022 cap hit 4.97M, dead cap hit 1.5M

 

Of course clearing that cap space would leave room to sign other free agents but also leaves some gaps in the line up.  Or are there comparable players already on the roster for less money?  And do you trust the Bills front office can fill these holes in the line up via the draft?   

 

Interesting list:  

 

Replaceable: Feliciano.  Line played better without him.  Cap savings even with the dead cap hit is worth it.  

 

Perhaps: Mores: if only we had Creed Humphry, that would replace Morse.  If Linderbaum (C-Iowa) drops the Bills may be tempted to move on from Morse or restructure. Beasley:  Might find another WR in FA for less.  Klien;  I'd love to keep this guy, I think he is better than Edmunds, but he may be too expensive for a backup.  

 

Not going anywhere: Hyde and Poyer, really the only 2 reliable guys on the D last year.  

 

Conclusion:  cutting Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Beasley give something like 15 in space.    I would use that for Chandler Jones and a WR, or Gronk.  

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

20 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Interesting list:  

 

Replaceable: Feliciano.  Line played better without him.  Cap savings even with the dead cap hit is worth it.  

 

Perhaps: Mores: if only we had Creed Humphry, that would replace Morse.  If Linderbaum (C-Iowa) drops the Bills may be tempted to move on from Morse or restructure. Beasley:  Might find another WR in FA for less.  Klien;  I'd love to keep this guy, I think he is better than Edmunds, but he may be too expensive for a backup.  

 

Not going anywhere: Hyde and Poyer, really the only 2 reliable guys on the D last year.  

 

Conclusion:  cutting Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Beasley give something like 15 in space.    I would use that for Chandler Jones and a WR, or Gronk.  

 

 

You don't analyze or comment on cutting Williams, but there he is in your conclusion. 

 

Who replaces him? Wasn't he pretty good this year when at RG? Especially given that the guy next to him was a rookie who had significant ups and downs. Can't be creating holes without a plan to fill them with a net positive result for the roster overall. 

 

Also, I'm not coming after you, just looking for rationale for including Williams in your cut list. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Richard Noggin

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Average player. Terrible contract. 

 

 

Well above average player at what he does, space eating historically and even more now that he's lost weight. Decent contract based on how badly someone to fill that role is needed in McDermott's defense. Particularly how our run stats are noticeably significantly better with Star and worse without him. Year by year it stands out.

 

Having said that, this year availability has become a serious concern, and after Covid he just wasn't what he had been. Before getting Covid he looked to be here for two more years. Now even this year is no sure thing.

 

 

21 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Interesting list:  

 

Replaceable: Feliciano.  Line played better without him.  Cap savings even with the dead cap hit is worth it.  

 

Perhaps: Mores: if only we had Creed Humphry, that would replace Morse.  If Linderbaum (C-Iowa) drops the Bills may be tempted to move on from Morse or restructure. Beasley:  Might find another WR in FA for less.  Klien;  I'd love to keep this guy, I think he is better than Edmunds, but he may be too expensive for a backup.  

 

Not going anywhere: Hyde and Poyer, really the only 2 reliable guys on the D last year.  

 

Conclusion:  cutting Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Beasley give something like 15 in space.    I would use that for Chandler Jones and a WR, or Gronk.  

 

 

 

 

Is there some sort of reason for cutting Beasley twice? Do we save more that way?

 

Don't see us getting anywhere near Jones. We could sure use him but it's just not reasonable with our cap strictures. We can make some space, but we won't be using nearly all of it for one guy. It'll almost surely be several.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Thurman#1

[RyanC883]

6 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

You don't analyze or comment on cutting Williams, but there he is in your conclusion. 

 

Who replaces him? Wasn't he pretty good this year when at RG? Especially given that the guy next to him was a rookie who had significant ups and downs. Can't be creating holes without a plan to fill them with a net positive result for the roster overall. 

 

fair point.   I wasn't going to have him in my cut initially, but then did for money reasons.  I'm thinking a draft pick, Ford, Bottenger.  But I'd keep him unless the coaches are solid on a replacement.  

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is a done deal.  Star is already gone.  There is zero chance….zero chance…he’s on the roster in 2022

 

 

That's not even a particularly solid guess. Wouldn't mind if they cut him but it could very easily go either way.

[RyanC883]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well above average player at what he does, space eating historically and even more now that he's lost weight. Decent contract based on how badly someone to fill that role is needed in McDermott's defense. Particularly how our run stats are noticeably significantly better with Star and worse without him. Year by year it stands out.

 

Having said that, this year availability has become a serious concern, and after Covid he just wasn't what he had been. Before getting Covid he looked to be here for two more years. Now even this year is no sure thing.

 

 

 

 

Is there some sort of reason for cutting Beasley twice? Do we save more that way?

 

Don't see us getting anywhere near Jones. We could sure use him but it's just not reasonable with our cap strictures. We can make some space, but we won't be using nearly all of it for one guy. It'll almost surely be several.

 

No reason for cutting Beasley twice other than a typo. 

 

II see your point with Jones and the cap.  Personally 'd rather have have one impact guy like Jones than a bunch of average-ish players.  

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As I am sure you are aware despite your protesting.......he has a $250K workout bonus.   He is paid to be at voluntary OTA's.    He might have been able to excuse his way out of that last offseason..........but it's reasonable to assume that covid isn't going to serve as an excuse to skip offseason workouts this year.

 

That said,   I'd be heavily leaning toward cutting him John Brown-style.   No call,  no re-structure offer.............ghost him just like Star ghosted them last offseason.

 

There needs to be an understanding if he stays though.   No more half-stepping.   I suspect he would have a hard time catching on another opening day roster than Buffalo for even the veteran minimum given his recent track record of low production,  questionable decision making and his age.......so if he is planning to continue his career he probably needs to buy-in to it or hope that the NFL practice squad rules allow for vets to be kept around and do that.   

 

 

Sounds very macho and tough of you.

 

But again, Hapless pointed out the problem with that and while you blustered a bit here, you didn't counter the problem, which is not your fault because there is no way to counter it. Hap's right.

 

He's not paid to be at voluntary OTAs. He's paid if he is at voluntary OTAs. It's not required, it's incentivized. That's how workout bonuses work no matter how macho people talk.

 

Cut him or keep him. Whichever. But there's no way to change his contract or make new conditions. He can come or not. It'll depend on what he wants, as it's voluntary. He's had a $250K work out bonus every year. If he doesn't come they won't pay, and if he comes they'll pay. It's in the contract, and that's the end of it. And while he didn't come to OTAs last year there's one thing we can be sure of, and that's that it didn't affect his fitness one bit. He was in terrific shape.

 

15 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

No reason for cutting Beasley twice other than a typo. 

 

II see your point with Jones and the cap.  Personally 'd rather have have one impact guy like Jones than a bunch of average-ish players.  

 

 

I understand, but I think you're not fully spelling out the choice. To me, it's more like one impact guy like Jones and a bunch of mild holes in the roster vs. a bunch of average-ish players.

 

Those mid-to-low level FAs are filling holes.

 

Well, we'll see.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Thurman#1

[JohnNord]

46 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's not even a particularly solid guess. Wouldn't mind if they cut him but it could very easily go either way.

If you read between the lines of what’s been said about him publicly, I don’t get the impression that the Bills hold a favorable opinion of him on the field.  
 

McDermott did not seem pleased that Star didn’t get vaxxed given his history last season.  Also Beane said in his presser that after landing on the COVID list, Star was not the same player.  
 

These comments are hardly ringing endorsements.  The Bills will certainly move on from him this season and 1TDT will likely be a position to add, especially if they can’t resign Phillips.  

[Dkollidas]

I’m assuming he’ll be gone post June 1st. Dead cap is around $2m, savings is over $6M 

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I said it before, his heart is not in the game and he should retire.

 

He is not likely to retire and would rather be cut and not give Bills ability to ask for portion of money back.

He may also wait to see if virus is bad enough next year that NFL allows another opt out possibility.

 

I was very happy he came back and was in good shape but it did not last.

Availability is one of the most important attributes and he does not have it and it should be more than if he was not in a rotating line.

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

fair point.   I wasn't going to have him in my cut initially, but then did for money reasons.  I'm thinking a draft pick, Ford, Bottenger.  But I'd keep him unless the coaches are solid on a replacement.  

Kind of sensed that what'd happened. He makes the cap space expand nicely, but doesn't make as much sense ON THE FIELD as the other cuts you discussed.

 

I'd keep him, too, based on the replacements you've floated. O-line is just too darned important at this point in our build to willfully enter the season with self-inflicted question marks and depth issues. He looked good at RG in 2021. Like moving a veteran CB who has marginal top end speed to S, maybe sliding a healthy, but not super nimble Williams, inside to G, maximizes his abilities (while unfortunately being pricey because we paid him to be a T).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I’m assuming he’ll be gone post June 1st. Dead cap is around $2m, savings is over $6M 

 

I don’t think that’s correct.  He has $2.5M guaranteed salary and a $2.6M signing bonus this year.  If he’s cut post June 1, I think they still  pay that this season.  So the dead cap would be $5.1M.   They just get to count next year’s signing bonus…next year.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Interesting list:  

 

Replaceable: Feliciano.  Line played better without him.  Cap savings even with the dead cap hit is worth it.  

 

Perhaps: Mores: if only we had Creed Humphry, that would replace Morse.  If Linderbaum (C-Iowa) drops the Bills may be tempted to move on from Morse or restructure. Beasley:  Might find another WR in FA for less.  Klien;  I'd love to keep this guy, I think he is better than Edmunds, but he may be too expensive for a backup.  

 

Not going anywhere: Hyde and Poyer, really the only 2 reliable guys on the D last year.  

 

Conclusion:  cutting Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Beasley give something like 15 in space.    I would use that for Chandler Jones and a WR, or Gronk.  

 

 

Like some of these considerations. If Linderbaum falls to 25, we'll pick him over a CB to replace Morse.  Klein could replace Edmunds for less money and we don't miss a beat.  Mongo and Beasley are likely gone. Williams will remain at RG next to Spencer.  Would absolutely love for Chandler to be that huge splash pass rusher but it'll cost us 16M. Will we have enough after cuts? 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sounds very macho and tough of you.

 

But again, Hapless pointed out the problem with that and while you blustered a bit here, you didn't counter the problem, which is not your fault because there is no way to counter it. Hap's right.

 

He's not paid to be at voluntary OTAs. He's paid if he is at voluntary OTAs. It's not required, it's incentivized. That's how workout bonuses work no matter how macho people talk.

 

Cut him or keep him. Whichever. But there's no way to change his contract or make new conditions. He can come or not. It'll depend on what he wants, as it's voluntary. He's had a $250K work out bonus every year. If he doesn't come they won't pay, and if he comes they'll pay. It's in the contract, and that's the end of it. And while he didn't come to OTAs last year there's one thing we can be sure of, and that's that it didn't affect his fitness one bit. He was in terrific shape.

 

 

 

I understand, but I think you're not fully spelling out the choice. To me, it's more like one impact guy like Jones and a bunch of mild holes in the roster vs. a bunch of average-ish players.

 

Those mid-to-low level FAs are filling holes.

 

Well, we'll see.

 

I"m hoping some of the draft picks of past years and this year can fill the holes.  Bean goes more with your approach, IMO.  We'll see.  Should be interesting....offseason  always is.  

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Like some of these considerations. If Linderbaum falls to 25, we'll pick him over a CB to replace Morse.  Klein could replace Edmunds for less money and we don't miss a beat.  Mongo and Beasley are likely gone. Williams will remain at RG next to Spencer.  Would absolutely love for Chandler to be that huge splash pass rusher but it'll cost us 16M. Will we have enough after cuts? 

 

I  think sporttrack has Jones at 14.5, have hope   

 

I would LOVE if Linderbaum falls to 25.  And a CB falls to the 2nd.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

I dont think he's a bad player, hes a good space eater and played well at times. But the reason he hasn't lived up to his contract is his reliability. Can't count on him, pay a guy that much money he's gotta be on the feild.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Interesting list:  

 

Replaceable: Feliciano.  Line played better without him.  Cap savings even with the dead cap hit is worth it.  

 

Perhaps: Mores: if only we had Creed Humphry, that would replace Morse.  If Linderbaum (C-Iowa) drops the Bills may be tempted to move on from Morse or restructure. Beasley:  Might find another WR in FA for less.  Klien;  I'd love to keep this guy, I think he is better than Edmunds, but he may be too expensive for a backup.  

 

Not going anywhere: Hyde and Poyer, really the only 2 reliable guys on the D last year.  

 

Conclusion:  cutting Williams, Beasley, Feliciano, and Beasley give something like 15 in space.    I would use that for Chandler Jones and a WR, or Gronk.  

 

 

Ya Feliciano can't stay healthy.

Linderbaum would be a steal, unfortunately his stock has only gone up the last few weeks.

Klein played pretty well when he's in and I like the toughness he brings, unfortunately the front office is going to stick with Edmunds probably for a long time.

Beasley is a tough one for me cuz I don't like taking weapons from josh, I wanna keep the continuity going with the passing game.

[T master]

Yah for what they are paying him & the best ability being availability i'm not really a big fan the beginning of last season he seemed to be doing good but faded so i would hope they could get someone cheaper maybe in the draft .

 

It would be nice if Jordan Davis were to fall to us but that seems to be a dream scenario .

[Einstein's Dog]

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

If you read between the lines of what’s been said about him publicly, I don’t get the impression that the Bills hold a favorable opinion of him on the field.  
 

McDermott did not seem pleased that Star didn’t get vaxxed given his history last season.  Also Beane said in his presser that after landing on the COVID list, Star was not the same player.  
 

These comments are hardly ringing endorsements.  The Bills will certainly move on from him this season and 1TDT will likely be a position to add, especially if they can’t resign Phillips.  

You're saying "on the field" but refering to off the field.  I understand people are frustrated, including our FO- the covid skip, the OTA miss, and time off last year are all annoying.

 

But the guy was not a total screw up.   Came here in fantastic shape.  Really looked good out to the gate.  People are quick to forget how in 2020 we talked a lot about how Star's absence was a large factor in the overall disappointing showing of the D that year.  How missing Star wasn't just a downgrade at that position but was negatively affecting the other players performances as well.

 

You don't get a player anywhere near the type of skill/experience/production Star can give us for $1.5M or even the $2.6M.   The move is not to jettison a good player because you are upset with him, it is instead time for McD to get this guy back.

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don’t think that’s correct.  He has $2.5M guaranteed salary and a $2.6M signing bonus this year.  If he’s cut post June 1, I think they still  pay that this season.  So the dead cap would be $5.1M.   They just get to count next year’s signing bonus…next year.

If cut, they’d designate him as a 6/1 cut.  (Teams get 2 per year.)  That means Star would stay on our books until 6/1, but off-season bonuses would be void.  It also eliminates any potential for obligation resulting from him being injured in team activities.  And he’d be free to sign elsewhere immediately.

[colin]

23 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not going to debate Star's motivation to play football.  He's said flat out that he doesn't love football.  His motivation comes in portraits of dead presidents.  When that's the motivation, if you're payed whether you perform or not, well...

 

But how are you going to "insist that he be there for the offseason and OTAs"?

 

They're called voluntary workouts because they're contractually voluntary up until mandatory minicamp.

 

And even if somehow they did persuade/insist...that doesn't guarantee full-go effort throughout the season.  Star did show up in shape and ready to go.  Beane pointed to effective play from Star week 2-8, and not as effective play week 13, 15, 17 and 18 plus playoffs.  Beane attributed this to lingering effects of Star's bout with covid 19 (did we ever get an explanation of the mysterious "personal reasons" week?) even on a drastically lowered snap count.

 

Obviously McDermott and Frazier have (in the past anyway) disagreed with your long-time take on Lotulelei's on-field contributions, it's not my intent to argue that here. 

 

My point is that the coaches and Beane have to decide whether Lotulelei's value to them  exceeds the roster space he takes up and the savings from cutting him, based on what they perceive as his on-field and off-field work ethic and committment, not based on a participation in OTAs they can't insist on or enforce, and which wouldn't necessarily foreshadow an adequate season-long effort.

 

I will say that McDermott has repeatedly referenced "leadership in the room" when discussing some of his under-performing veterans, but need to confront the contradiction implicit in having "leaders" like Hughes who don't actually show their butts up for OTAs

 

 

 

To add to this point made, Star really has (or had) insane talent.  he was often thought of as the number one talent in the draft they year he came out (i think he ended up top 10).  he's massive, fast, strong, not fat, explosive, all the things you get given by God, but i think at this point in his life, he clearly doesn't love it and obviously does not do every thing possible to be the best he can be.  This is a pretty standard issue w super talented interior DL guys in the NFL.  Parcels used to say CBs and DTs are a planet issue, there are only so many people on the planet w the natural ability do to what they do, so you have to accept them as they are (probably why he always built his team, billicheat too) through linebackers and safeties, who are always total football heads.  part of why darnold is so dominant is that he is talented obviously, but he's not really that big or imposing.  he works out like a olympian in the offseason, does all these different kinds of training, and mentally wants to win as much as anyone.  if Star was like that he'd probably be a hall of fame guy, but he ain't.