Mitch Morse seems to be at the ‘Center’ of Bills ails -TheAthletic

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

“… However, the Bills’ trip to Jacksonville started a negative trend. It was the first time an opposing team turned the passing offense into an inefficient unit, as the Jaguars dared the Bills to run and the Bills had no counter. It began the Bills’ desire to get the ground game going a bit more, and they tried a lot of different blocking and rushing principles to accomplish it.

That brings us to Morse, who remains a good pass blocker and is an asset in run blocking schemes centered on athleticism. However, if the Bills are insistent on being more physical than the opponent with power run schemes, as they did at times against the Patriots, Morse will likely struggle. That was the case on Monday, as Morse easily had the worst game of his season and was a liability as a run blocker. He even showed some struggles as a pass blocker against bigger defensive tackles, which isn’t usually the case. Either way, the Bills needed a great deal more from Morse in a bad-weather game, where winning at the line of scrimmage was at the top of head coach Sean McDermott’s mind after the game. Over the last five games, Morse has a 2.42 GPA, and his season-long grade has plummeted. So it is fair to wonder what this means going forward, similar to last season when things unraveled with Morse.”

This has been a topic of discussion since he arrived via FA. His contract is up and we’d save $8.5M to let him walk. For as efficient as he is in passpro and Allen’s security blanket, he’s a detriment in the run game. Most importantly, our opponents know this. I seriously think we bid him farewell this offseason, not bothering to tend him even a lesser contract. Feliciano has shown well at C vs. the run, not so well vs. the pass -or at Guard. 

If he is shown the door, how do we adequately rebuild the OLine to balance the offense? This has been a crappy weather season already, so Mother Nature has dictated a lot of what we can do offensively.  No reason believe next year will be all sunshine and roses..

 

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

(excellent article, btw, for subscribers)

 

The first paragraph is the problem with this team right now. McDermott wants to be a big powerful team and i do to . 

 

However we are not that team and trying to force guys into things they aren't good at is a recipe for disaster and is why we have the record we do. The jets game we were able to run and be more physical but we used a Full Back and TE a lot more. Now if we want to run more we need more of that but if they dont do that its not going to happen this year.

 

I have been a huge supporter of McDermott but im disappointed by him trying be a physical team when this team cant. We all can see it and for him not too is very concerning . Also he is becoming too conservative again and is still making bad red flag choices. We needed to go for two points when NE had 8 points, being down one point or two points didn't matter , but if we had got the 2 points then we can kick a FG to tie. Then if we had that extra timeout instead of wasting it on a review that there was no way to change it is just stupid. Not sure why we took our first timeout but i think we had a delay of game right after which is just inexcusable.

 

I love what McDermott has done for this team but he has to get better on game day and be smarter with the game plan overall and be able to make adjustments faster when the plan isnt working.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[John from Riverside]

Put two monster guards on opposite sides of Mitch and he will look fantastic

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Put two monster guards on opposite sides of Mitch and he will look fantastic

 

 

I agree 100% ,we haven't had a physical line since Ritchie and Wood where here, i dont remember who the other guard was then but has to better than what we have now.

 

We really might need a new Oline coach, the last guy who was good was the guy who gave some teenagers a hard time over lawn chairs. Not sure why thats a big deal but we got rid of right after ( i dont remember his name at the moment)

 

 

6 hours ago, Gisele said:

Still it's so odd that so many of our linemen are regressing.  Something is (or isn't) going on with coaching.  

 

Could be these guys aren't maintaining their strength in the weight room?

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

If Josh hits a few more passes than he did against the Patriots, no one is talking about "getting the offense in balance"!!!!

 

I expect our first draft pick to go toward an OL and that we might even grab 2 more in free agency or even a trade.

Beane can be creative.  We don't need a great OL; we just need one that is acceptable! 

 

Easily fixable in one off-season, though 2 is better.

 

Our Josh window is still WIDE OPEN.

 

 

 

Too many drops this game

[Southern_Bills]

If we are not in the business of acquiring interior OL next off-season we are basically waving a white flag.

 

I'm of the opinion Josh Allen could do with lesser talent at receiver if he had more time and a running game.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

It’s an uncomfortable truth: Buffalo should replace its entire interior OL.

 

Do I expect it to happen? No. I think best we get is 2 new OGs w/ Morse for another year after a pay cut. Even more likely I think is they add one new OG and try to roll w/ Feliciano and Morse as starters again. 
 

Agree w/ Solomon G that it is wiser to draft OL as opposed to spending big FA $, and I don’t want a repeat of bargain OL. To me, even a 1st round pick is worth it if it figures to net Buffalo a starting C/OG for 5-10 years. It all starts up front. 

 

No reason to get rid of Brown 

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Muppy said:

the Bills resigned Dawkins so he is going nowhere IMO. Otherwise Im strapped in awaiting the NFL draft and may they pick a mean Ugly or two............I wouldnt be upset.

Yeah you do whut u say u have  No Faith  Ethan? lol Im not cherry picking that 1 thing but if you really think that way things are much more dire that I thought *cringe*

Move Dawkins inside. He played guard in college 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Morse is very similar in style to Eric Wood.

 

Wood was terrible in the power run game under Marrone.    Might as well have been wearing skates on the field on run downs.

 

The switch to the inside zone attack under Greg Roman resuscitated his career.    

 

With less physical, athletic lineman you want them to be blocking the edges of defenders instead of trying to push their whole body weight off the LOS.

 

 

i was pissed when  Wrecks fired Roman, i wish he was our run game coordinator and let Dabol do the passing game.

 

I think for what McDermott wants to do we need a west coast offense like the 49s have right now. We did have it his first year but for whatever reason he didn't click with Rick Dennison.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Solomon Grundy]

34 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Put two monster guards on opposite sides of Mitch and he will look fantastic

Why not put a band aid on a machete cut?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

I have been wondering how much of it is regression and how much of it is referee's calling holding again, which doesn't allow them to hold like last year?

 

need to get back to that. I also think they need to change what holding is, if you push a guy over and you fall on top of him thats not holding, thats domination. Also having your hands outside the pads is not holding. Unless you really restrict the movement of the defender then let it go.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i was pissed when  Wrecks fired Roman, i wish he was our run game coordinator and let Dabol do the passing game.

 

I think for what McDermott wants to do we need a west coast offense like the 49s have right now. We did have it his first year but for whatever reason he didn't click with Rick Dennison.

 

 

 

 

The Bills have been trying to run outside zone......like the 49ers run now.........but their guards aren't really good enough to make it work, IMO.

 

I can see them tryna' swipe Laken Tomlinson from SF in free agency.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Move Dawkins inside. He played guard in college 

 

But we need a better Tackle to replace him.

 

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Bills have been trying to run outside zone......like the 49ers run now.........but their guards aren't really good enough to make it work, IMO.

 

I can see them tryna' swipe Laken Tomlinson from SF in free agency.

 

 

I wasn't referring to line blocking scheme specifically but using a TE and FB to block but who can also catch, this used to be the norm and should be able find/coach guys to do this.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why not put a band aid on a machete cut?

Because Morse is one of the best pulling centers in the league.

 

I would keep him

[TheCockSportif]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Morse is one of the best pulling centers in the league.

 

I would keep him

Yes.  I am with the people who say that guards need to be upgraded.  Morse isn't terrible, but that needs to be addressed in 2023, perhaps.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Morse is one of the best pulling centers in the league.

 

I would keep him

If that is true… just wow. He spends the better part of his life pass blocking! When exactly are they using that skill? 

[Victory Formation]

I like the idea of keeping Morse at center throughout 2022 and drafting a replacement in the first round next year.
 

He’s average, not good, not bad overall but a solid pass protector nonetheless and also as a pull center as @John from Riversidehas pointed out. His problem is he lacks physicality in the run game against stout defensive linemen. He can’t blow up holes for RBs in the power run game, but once again he anchors down well in pass protection, but keep in mind, we can do a lot worse than Mitch Morse.

 

Buffalo could benefit from upgrading multiple positions all across the board. LG, C, RG, RB, TE, NT, NT, CB, LB and such. I know Edmunds is a big body at LB but he seemingly does not use his body to his advantage and lacks a sense of physicality.
 

It will be interesting to see what Beane does to fill these holes in the offseason. I don’t think it’s far fetched to assume that Buffalo could be back on top the AFC East if Buffalo seriously retools some things on our roster, mainly if we can manage to scrape together a physical run offense and a defense that is predicated on stopping the run.

 

I guess in a nutshell that both our IOL and IDL needs to be completely refortified. A power RB is absolutely necessary in the worst way, we need a bruiser.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Being better than Epenesa or Basham is an embarrassingly low bar to set. 
 

He just doesn’t look explosive and being long only gets you so far. I don’t see him consistently beating guys off the edge to think he’ll be much more than a decent rotation guy who’s going to set a solid edge and get the occasional sack. 

Agreed its a low bar.

Being long is what modern 4-3 DEs look like. I agree he is unlikely to be a 14 sack a year guy. But who is? Only a very rare few. If he can get 8-10 sacks a year and play solid run defense its a good return on investment 

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Hindsight is always 20/20 but boy would Creed Humphrey look good in a Bills uniform right now.

 

Too bad we have a GM that is completely clueless when it comes to evaluating the trenches.

Not hindsight when there were plenty of us calling for it during the draft

[billsfan_34]

Morse is just not a very good center. I thought Feliciano was better last season when called upon.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

But we need a better Tackle to replace him.

 

 

 

I wasn't referring to line blocking scheme specifically but using a TE and FB to block but who can also catch, this used to be the norm and should be able find/coach guys to do this.

 

 

I agree. I'd prefer they draft an OT to push Dawkins to guard.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Morse is just not a very good center. I thought Feliciano was better last season when called upon.

 

Feliciano had his chance last season when Morse went out with concussion.  He got his chance in a run-heavy game.  He got his chance in a pass heavy game.  He got his chance in a (very slightly) more balanced game.  The conclusion was "c'mon back here, Mitch!"

 

I'm not saying we don't need an upgrade at C.  But if the question is "how can we improve our IOL?" I'm not persuade Feliciano is part of the answer.  He's a talented backup who can play all 3 positions decently.

 

 

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Bills have been trying to run outside zone......like the 49ers run now.........but their guards aren't really good enough to make it work, IMO.

 

I can see them tryna' swipe Laken Tomlinson from SF in free agency.

 

 

Do we have any RB on the team who can run outside zone, except maybe fumble-fingers Breida?

[billsfan_34]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Feliciano had his chance last season when Morse went out with concussion.  He got his chance in a run-heavy game.  He got his chance in a pass heavy game.  He got his chance in a (very slightly) more balanced game.  The conclusion was "c'mon back here, Mitch!"

 

I'm not saying we don't need an upgrade at C.  But if the question is "how can we improve our IOL?" I'm not persuade Feliciano is part of the answer.  He's a talented backup who can play all 3 positions decently.

 

 

 

Do we have any RB on the team who can run outside zone, except maybe fumble-fingers Breida?

Agreed and nice to have an o-lineman that can play all 3 spots. I felt we functioned better with Feliciano at center but I find myself in agreement- how do do we improve the line? We have a lack of talent and a few underperforming. Williams was brutal Monday night! 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Do we have any RB on the team who can run outside zone, except maybe fumble-fingers Breida?

 

Breida has proven he can do it in SF.    Singletary's numbers aren't bad.    I believe Moss ran it a lot in college and at times looked more comfortable at it than Singletary last year.

 

It's not just a speed and quickness thing.   Most of the yardage is still inside.  It's vision and instinct for the cutback.  Shady McCoy was good at inside zone but bad at outside zone.  

 

Back in the Shanahan days in Denver they had a run where they had one late round pick or UDFA with poor speed and quickness numbers after another excel in the their outside zone style.    But they had undersized but very athletic OL's.........like the 80's and 90's 49ers did.   They were good at getting to DL knees and creating big cutback lanes.   

[Billl]

20 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Hindsight is always 20/20 but boy would Creed Humphrey look good in a Bills uniform right now.

 

Too bad we have a GM that is completely clueless when it comes to evaluating the trenches.

I don’t think Beane sees the position as a need.  Given that the plan was to trade out of the spot if Basham was gone, Humphrey was never even a consideration.  The only alternative is that he thought Humphrey sucked in which case I have no idea what their evaluation process looks like.

[billsfan_34]

18 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Morse is just not a very good center. I thought Feliciano was better last season when called upon.

We can agree to disagree.

[Marv's Neighbor]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:13 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Same conversation we had last year. I'm not sure what people expected? 

Maybe getting a little more urgent this year?