[Vague Title] Some change on offense

[Italian Bills]

It could be just for tomorrow, but because lately we had hard time on offense, it could be a way to be more effective. 
i’m reffering at use two backs in the same time, maybe our running game could improve even with a bad OL, running not only in the middle but outside also, lightening the pressure on Allen and be more balanced. 
 

What you think ? I know we don’t have stud backs but playing two together it could work. 

[Governor]

We would need two RB’s to do that.

[Italian Bills]

1 minute ago, Governor said:

We would need two RB’s to do that.

Maybe Moss and Breeda together ? 

[Governor]

4 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

Maybe Moss and Breeda together ? 

I think we need to give the other kid a try. McD is terrified to play someone that might fumble and that needs to change. We aren’t playing games where field position really matters.

 

If he fumbles twice, then sure, go ahead and yank him. So I would go Williams and Stalling Motor.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Governor

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Italian Bills said:

Maybe Moss and Breeda together ? 

 

yeah!--if one stood on the other's shoulders, they could wear a single uniform and pretend we got Derrick Henry back there!

[Italian Bills]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

yeah!--if one stood on the other's shoulders, they could wear a single uniform and pretend we got Derrick Henry back there!

Very funny of you. We here giving opinion, right ? You don’t agree ? Your right without being ironic. 
That said ther’s only one Henry i know… other very good and productive backs aren’t that tall, but they works. 
i don’t say that our run game would become stellar, but could help and gain some good yards not relying just on Allen and the Wr’s.

[BuffaloBillyG]

26 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

It could be just for tomorrow, but because lately we had hard time on offense, it could be a way to be more effective. 
i’m reffering at use two backs in the same time, maybe our running game could improve even with a bad OL, running not only in the middle but outside also, lightening the pressure on Allen and be more balanced. 
 

What you think ? I know we don’t have stud backs but playing two together it could work. 

While I get what you are thinking and changing things up needs to happen...in your scenario who are you taking off the field too make this happen? Sanders? Beasley?

 

Being that as you said we don't have stud RBs would this not decrease the talent level of our players in the field? 

 

[benderbender]

Why not have a 2RB shotgun set? If you don’t have them block, they can at least freeze LB until WRs can make a

move. At worst they can be outlet check downs. 

[Italian Bills]

9 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

While I get what you are thinking and changing things up needs to happen...in your scenario who are you taking off the field too make this happen? Sanders? Beasley?

 

Being that as you said we don't have stud RBs would this not decrease the talent level of our players in the field? 

 

Like you said something have to change saw that it seems the other DCs have our number… i got what you mean but it doesn’t seem that play with all Diggs, Bease and Sanders together right now is working. Without forgetting that with this set Diggs get very few touch and so Bease and Sanders. 
I don’t mean to play with two backs all the sets, but here and there could help and be difficult for the defenses adjust. 

[SirAndrew]

I’ve given up on being able to run the ball with our current roster. I understand it’s universally accepted you need a run game to win titles, but we simply don’t. The best we can do is play to the strengths of our passing game, and see how far it takes us. It might prove costly, but emphasizing the run game isn’t getting us anywhere. We need to restructure the entire offensive game plan. It’s time to pick better moments to run the ball, incorporate quick passes, and get the ball to Bease and Diggs. We’ve fallen in love with chucking the ball downfield to Sanders.
 

I have no issue with running, but Josh under center on first down gives away a run call. We must mix in the run game more effectively. What’s not going to happen is us becoming ground and pound. There’s quotes from pundits talking about how crucial it is to run the ball with bad weather on the way. It’s not going to work that for us, we just need better efficiency. Our coaching staff needs to have a better feel for the trajectory of the game. They made no adjustments to help Josh when it was clear the o line was having a meltdown. We have an incredibly well coached and well prepared team, but Daboll in particularly seems stubborn about making in game adjustments. 

[Italian Bills]

Another thing it could be to use some no huddle offense to break the defenses rythm and formation. Maybe we are not able to play no huddle properly ? Sometimes it could help that also. 

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ve given up on being able to run the ball with our current roster. I understand it’s universally accepted you need a run game to win titles, but we simply don’t. The best we can do is play to the strengths of our passing game, and see how far it takes us. It might prove costly, but emphasizing the run game isn’t getting us anywhere. We need to restructure the entire offensive game plan. It’s time to pick better moments to run the ball, incorporate quick passes, and get the ball to Bease and Diggs. We’ve fallen in love with chucking the ball downfield to Sanders.
 

I have no issue with running, but Josh under center on first down gives away a run call. We must mix in the run game more effectively. What’s not going to happen is us becoming ground and pound. There’s quotes from pundits talking about how crucial it is to run the ball with bad weather on the way. It’s not going to work that for us, we just need better efficiency. Our coaching staff needs to have a better feel for the trajectory of the game. They made no adjustments to help Josh when it was clear the o line was having a meltdown. We have an incredibly well coached and well prepared team, but Daboll in particularly seems stubborn about making in game adjustments. 

I agree with you about not try to become ground and pound, main reason because our backs are not so good. But mix it more often would make other DCs adjust and get out of their comfort zone. 

[without a drought]

I wouldn't over think this too much, I believe the return of Knox and Brown will be all the change they need.

 

Jimmy Spags - this is your one and only warning. 

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

Another thing it could be to use some no huddle offense to break the defenses rythm and formation. Maybe we are not able to play no huddle properly ? Sometimes it could help that also. 

I agree with you about not try to become ground and pound, main reason because our backs are not so good. But mix it more often would make other DCs adjust and get out of their comfort zone. 

I agree, I think it’s not just a matter of running more, but picking better moments to do so. The Jags loss was definitely ugly, but I’m also hesitant to take the ball out of Josh’s hands too often. We need to be careful about the balance of more run calls if we go that direction. Singletary and Moss plays seem like wasted downs at this point. You can’t throw the ball every down, but I worry that mixing in more runs won’t free much up. Defensive coordinators probably don’t have much fear of Moss or Singletary. I’d be comfortable selling out to stop Josh as a D coordinator, even if we did run the ball more. I’d have confidence that a four man front with everyone else in coverage is enough to stop the Bills run game. I still agree with your point, but we’re in a tough spot with subpar backs and an o line who can’t block. 

[Italian Bills]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, I think it’s not just a matter of running more, but picking better moments to do so. The Jags loss was definitely ugly, but I’m also hesitant to take the ball out of Josh’s hands too often. We need to be careful about the balance of more run calls if we go that direction. Singletary and Moss plays seem like wasted downs at this point. You can’t throw the ball every down, but I worry that mixing in more runs won’t free much up. Defensive coordinators probably don’t have much fear of Moss or Singletary. I’d be comfortable selling out to stop Josh as a D coordinator, even if we did run the ball more. I’d have confidence that a four man front with everyone else in coverage is enough to stop the Bills run game. I still agree with your point, but we’re in a tough spot with subpar backs and an o line who can’t block. 

Your is a very good point. But sometime a weak area could be used like a decoy. I also agree that Allen has to remain the main weapon, we are talking about a top 5 QB that with a great OL could be a nightmare every single game. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A better title will help the community find information faster and make your topic more likely to be read. The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

[frostbitmic]

We need to run the wishbone

[the_D]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Seeing who made the topic, I pretty much knew what was being said. Just saying.

[Italian Bills]

12 minutes ago, the_D said:

Seeing who made the topic, I pretty much knew what was being said. Just saying.

So that you are so smart, help me to give this topic a correct title. Thank you

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A better title will help the community find information faster and make your topic more likely to be read. The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

I can’t see how to do that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

11 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

I can’t see how to do that. 

 

Sorry, thought I had previously explained to you in PM.  My bad.

 

Click on the title and hold.  A text box should open.  This can be fussy from a phone or tablet, and work better from a computer.

If you have problems PM me what you want to change it to and I'll edit it for you.

Something like "Change on the offense, use two backs" would show what the thread content is.

 

To get back to the content, problems with the suggestion include:

1) if you use two backs, who are you taking off the field?  Both Singletary and Moss are good blockers, but have similar skills as RBs; if you use Singletary and Brieda or Moss and Brieda, their skills differ, but Brieda sucks as a blocker and you're probably taking Knox (excellent blocker and receiver) off the field.

2) if the problem with the run game is design and/or execution of run blocking, how will having 2 backs help?

[fasteddie]

The puzzling thing to me is that Daboll is obviously a passing offensive coordinator and they have another coach who is a passing game coach (off the top of my head,  I can't recall his official title).

Wouldn't it make sense to get a running game coordinator? A coach who really knows how to draw up running plays that our line can block. 

Just an idea.

Edited November 13, 2021 by fasteddie

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

It could be just for tomorrow, but because lately we had hard time on offense, it could be a way to be more effective. 
i’m reffering at use two backs in the same time, maybe our running game could improve even with a bad OL, running not only in the middle but outside also, lightening the pressure on Allen and be more balanced. 
 

What you think ? I know we don’t have stud backs but playing two together it could work. 

Mama Mia 👨🏼‍🍳 you could have something here !! 

[TuelTime]

I think wasting a roster spot on an RB who is an excellent special teamer like Jones, and having a fullback that is rarely used in Gilliam is detrimental to the run game. Having a more speedy and shiftier back who can catch passes is something the team is lacking. McKenzie being used less in the run game has been noticeable..

[SectionC3]

I think you're going to see Breida in to attack the edges and Allen under center a lot more.  Going to let the offensive line get aggressive -- no more diddling around on read options all day -- and work its way out of this.  That's the guess here.  Improves the run game and gives play action a bit more bite. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

6 minutes ago, TuelTime said:

I think wasting a roster spot on an RB who is an excellent special teamer like Jones, and having a fullback that is rarely used in Gilliam is detrimental to the run game. Having a more speedy and shiftier back who can catch passes is something the team is lacking. McKenzie being used less in the run game has been noticeable..

 

the team is not lacking this type of RB. His name is Breida. He has apparently not done enough to warrant a game day activation.

 

He is a completely different type of RB compared to Moss/Singletary; not sure why the Bills signed him in the first place as he remains inactive.

Edited November 13, 2021 by BuffaninSarasota
edit

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Italian Bills said:

Your is a very good point. But sometime a weak area could be used like a decoy. I also agree that Allen has to remain the main weapon, we are talking about a top 5 QB that with a great OL could be a nightmare every single game. 

Our main issue is the OL and they are still better in pass pro then run blocking , now this is just my opinion but I think we need to figure out how to give Josh more time in the pocket & WR’s to get separation , because our bread and butter is still our passing game ,  like I said just my opinion 

[HappyDays]

I think it is worth trying while Beasley is rehabbing his rib injury. We relied on him too much against the Jaguars and our offense suffered for it.

 

Ideally the 2nd RB would be Breida just to use as a check down option, or on outside runs and screens and swing passes. Breida cannot run inside but we can utilize his skill set in other ways. Knox and/or Singletary/Moss could be an extra blocker on any given pass or run play. We could get some misdirection going again and use Breida on those sweeps that have mysteriously disappeared from our offense this year.

 

The more I think about it the more I like it. We have to manufacture some kind of offense that doesn't involve Allen throwing the ball 10+ yards down the field. I don't believe a WR short passing game fits our offensive personnel since we have no RAC specialists. 21 personnel could give us some new options to keep defenses thinking.

Edited November 13, 2021 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

in your scenario who are you taking off the field too make this happen? Sanders? Beasley?

 

Beasley. I love that he is tough enough to play through fractured ribs but he is not the same player right now.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ve given up on being able to run the ball with our current roster.

 

Part of the problem is all of our run plays are the same. A few times a game Daboll has Singletaty or Moss slam into the middle of our offensive line, almost as if to say "well at least I tried, I guess we have no choice but to have Allen throw it 50 times." If we can't change up our run plays with the current personnel they need to try something different. We have zero outside run game with just Singletary or Moss on the field.

[Governor]

30 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

 

the team is not lacking this type of RB. His name is Breida. He has apparently not done enough to warrant a game day activation.

 

He is a completely different type of RB compared to Moss/Singletary; not sure why the Bills signed him in the first place as he remains inactive.

He must have ball security issues. McD is very weird about that and did the same with Yeldon.

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Beasley. I love that he is tough enough to play through fractured ribs but he is not the same player right now.

Yup. We’re not getting anymore production from him this season. He’s done. He looks it on the field also.

 

If Beas we’re a Patriot, he would’ve been traded in the offseason. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Governor

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Governor said:

He must have ball security issues. McD is very weird about that and did the same with Yeldon.

Yup. We’re not getting anymore production from him this season. He’s done. He looks it on the field also.

 

If Beas we’re a Patriot, he would’ve been traded in the offseason. 

 

He's very important to the Bill's offense right now and next couple years. When teams playing tampa 2 or cover 2 shell you want to trade him? That's crazy.

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

He's very important to the Bill's offense right now and next couple years. When teams playing tampa 2 or cover 2 shell you want to trade him? That's crazy.

He isn’t last year’s Beas. He’s got absolutely nothing left. It’s time for us to accept that and move forward. He has no trade value at this point. That time passed.

 

Next couple of years? No, definitely not. This is his last year as a Bill.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Governor

[clayboy54]

3 minutes ago, Governor said:

He isn’t last year’s Beas. He’s got absolutely nothing left. It’s time for us to accept that and move forward. He has no trade value at this point. That time passed.

 

Next couple of years? No, definitely not. This is his last year as a Bill.

You’re just mad he doesn’t want to get vax’ed.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Governor said:

He isn’t last year’s Beas. He’s got absolutely nothing left. It’s time for us to accept that and move forward. He has no trade value at this point. That time passed.

 

Next couple of years? No, definitely not. This is his last year as a Bill.

 

We'll that's you're own thoughts. Have my own. Respect. Moving on from this post.

[Governor]

12 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

You’re just mad he doesn’t want to get vax’ed.

Look at the body language. His lashing out might partly be his frustration that his body is breaking down. I have no reason to believe he recovered from last year’s injuries. He’s very slow. His facial expressions tell the story.
 

He’s definitely trending towards retirement. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Governor

[clayboy54]

2 minutes ago, Governor said:

Look at the body language. His lashing out might partly be his frustration that his body is breaking down. I have no reason to believe he recovered from last year’s injuries. He’s very slow. His facial expressions tell the story.
 

He’s definitely trending towards retirement. 

I think he is frustrated by everything that has been happening off the field. He’s a tightly wound guy. He brought that on himself, but he has to let go of whether he’s being Boo’d or Beas’ d.

 

Will that frustration lead to his retirement? Possibly, but dudes like him are far more likely to request to be let go, and just move on.

[Governor]

16 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I think he is frustrated by everything that has been happening off the field. He’s a tightly wound guy. He brought that on himself, but he has to let go of whether he’s being Boo’d or Beas’ d.

 

Will that frustration lead to his retirement? Possibly, but dudes like him are far more likely to request to be let go, and just move on.

I’m just speaking of his ability on the field. I thought we’d draft his replacement in the last draft. He’s old. Not sure why fans thought we’d get another 2 full seasons out of him.

The future holes on this team are expanding because we might’ve swung and missed on multiple early picks, especially Ford.

 

Not a great situation moving forward. By the time we replace these holes, Diggs will be at the end of his career.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Governor

[WyoAZBillfan]

13 minutes ago, Governor said:

29 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I’m just speaking of his ability on the field. I thought we’d draft his replacement in the last draft. He’s old. Not sure why fans thought we’d get another 2 full seasons out of him.

The future holes on this team are expanding because we might’ve swung and missed on multiple early picks, especially Ford.

 

Not a great situation moving forward. By the time we replace these holes, Diggs will be at the end of his career.

Did you watch the Miami game at all? He’s far from done, even injured the guy plays better than some teams #1 & #2’s. 
It must be hard to live in doom and gloom all the time. 

[Governor]

Just now, WyoAZBillfan said:

Did you watch the Miami game at all? He’s far from done, even injured the guy plays better than some teams #1 & #2’s. 
It must be hard to live in doom and gloom all the time. 

I watch him in every game. He’s lost a few steps. I don’t think it would take much to replace him and his production. Josh makes him look a lot better than he actually is. I’m hoping to get 2-3 more good games out of him. That’s better than no games. I’ll take anything at this point.

[Italian Bills]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Our main issue is the OL and they are still better in pass pro then run blocking , now this is just my opinion but I think we need to figure out how to give Josh more time in the pocket & WR’s to get separation , because our bread and butter is still our passing game ,  like I said just my opinion 

 

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Our main issue is the OL and they are still better in pass pro then run blocking , now this is just my opinion but I think we need to figure out how to give Josh more time in the pocket & WR’s to get separation , because our bread and butter is still our passing game ,  like I said just my opinion 

More time ? With the the OL at full strenght and a TD and using more slat plays for quick passes, leaving time to the pass rush 

[WyoAZBillfan]

31 minutes ago, Governor said:

watch him in every game. He’s lost a few steps. I don’t think it would take much to replace him and his production. Josh makes him look a lot better than he actually is. I’m hoping to get 2-3 more good games out of him. That’s better than no games. I’ll take anything at this point.

Maybe you should compare stats and double check that step you think he’s lost. Josh didn’t make many receivers look good throwing the ball high, dropping it low, how many times last week did you see a receiver jumping to catch the ball and get leveled. It happened several times. 
 

It would take much to replace him.. so who do you have that can do that? Not just numbers, clutch catches . Also what assets are to be used to acquire this replacement. Very weak assessment on a player who goes out every week and balls out.