NYS releases Bills stadium study

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, purple haze said:

And yet they show up and play anyway.  Those checks are on time.

 

he didn't say they would quit or not play.

[corta765]

9 minutes ago, purple haze said:

And yet they show up and play anyway.  Those checks are on time.

You know that type of roof will probably cost even more.

 

That's fine give me lasers too then!

[BuffaloBills1998]

24 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Right, they just have Raccuia spitting fire for them. Good cop, bad cop.

That’s pretty much what Raccuia is doing and all he’s good for. If Pegula was going to move the Bills then he wouldn’t have bothered working with NYS and Erie County on building a new stadium here. Most likely this is going to end up in OP. Downtown would cost too much and that’s not including infrastructure. 

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I've noticed that a large proportion of downtown advocates are out-of-towners.

 

They want to come to Buffalo, stay in a hotel, eat at a heated restaurant, and walk a block to the game.

 

I can confirm this. This is me.

 

Give me a lite rail from the airport right to downtown, and I'm in heaven.

[billykay]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Sorry, I’ll have to rephrase this. I’d say he’s not being greedy, he’s just not being stupid. I can’t hate on that. That’s just the way the game is played now, and I have no hard feelings for him looking for any and all additional funding from local, state, NFL or federal sources. Like everybody else. 

 

In fact, I would think less of the Pegulas and the Bills if they didn’t look into all possible sources of funding. That is one reason I wish they could find a way to integrate with UB’s plans. I don’t know where that would be, or what that would look like, but it just makes so much sense! I’m not a local guy anymore, but why build TWO? I know and understand UB wanting an on-campus stadium, I really do, but maybe a top tier stadium helps recruiting. Try to get more state (and maybe federal?)  money by doing the smart thing. 

No one ever talks about it but what are the pros & cons of building a stadium for the Bulls & Bills on or near the Amherst campus ?

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, billykay said:

No one ever talks about it but what are the pros & cons of building a stadium for the Bulls & Bills on or near the Amherst campus ?

 

As I noted, I don’t know enough to have an opinion so I’ll leave it to those with better local knowledge. It just seems a shame to build TWO stadiums. I believe USF still plays at the Buc’s Raymond James Stadium. I don’t know how well that works for everybody, but it sure saves a boatload of money! 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We (Buffalo) kinda do.

 

It makes little sense that there is even an NFL team in Buffalo, given the size of the market. If the league were starting today we would most definitely not have a team. And wouldnt even be in the Plan B list.

 

Partially paying for a new stadium is the price of having a team in a location that cant be justified in any other way. And keep in mind, this cost gets spread out over the whole state, Albany and NYC, not just WNY.

 

Let NYC chip in to let us have our nice thing.

Sure is nice to have a team in Buffalo, but by no means do we owe anything to the NFL/ owners / The Pegulas, that’s just absurd. Nuthin but luv, 

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, billykay said:

No one ever talks about it but what are the pros & cons of building a stadium for the Bulls & Bills on or near the Amherst campus ?

 

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

As I noted, I don’t know enough to have an opinion so I’ll leave it to those with better local knowledge. It just seems a shame to build TWO stadiums. I believe USF still plays at the Buc’s Raymond James Stadium. I don’t know how well that works for everybody, but it sure saves a boatload of money! 

 

I'd combine them, but have the Bulls play at the new downtown stadium.

 

Doing so also brings the net cost of the new Bills stadium down, since the State is going to have to pay for a new UB stadium anyways. If they were going to spend $100M(?) on a new UB stadium, well that is $100M you could theoretically "credit" off the price of the new Bills stadium.

4 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Sure is nice to have a team in Buffalo, but by no means do we owe anything to the NFL/ owners / The Pegulas, that’s just absurd. Nuthin but luv, 

 

Ehh, I dont fully disagree with the overall thought, but again, there is a price to be paid for having/keeping something that we otherwise wouldnt get.

 

From an NFL perspective, the region can not support a team like most other markets.

 

From a local fan perspective, wtf would we do if we let the team go? What would we even have left in Buffalo?

[Don Otreply]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I'd combine them, but have the Bulls play at the new downtown stadium.

 

Doing so also brings the net cost of the new Bills stadium down, since the State is going to have to pay for a new UB stadium anyways. If they were going to spend $100M(?) on a new UB stadium, well that is $100M you could theoretically "credit" off the price of the new Bills stadium.

 

Ehh, I dont fully disagree with the overall thought, but again, there is a price to be paid for having/keeping something that we otherwise wouldnt get.

 

From an NFL perspective, the region can not support a team like most other markets.

 

From a local fan perspective, wtf would we do if we let the team go? What would we even have left in Buffalo?

That’s a bit of a defeatist perspective, lots of places don’t have football teams, and ya know, they live great lives without the NFL being in their towns and cities. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Nor do we owe him a stadium what don’t folk understand about this? If he wants a new stadium he can write the check for it, your logic is broken, Mr Pegula does indeed want a new stadium, and he can pay for it one hundred percent, it’s not on the taxpayers to build/finance him a new stadium on any level, What don’t folk understand about this massive financial scam that the NFL/owners have foisted on the taxpayers backs???? How is it that otherwise intelligent people fall for this scam???

On that we agree. The fans don’t owe him a stadium. But…Pegula also doesn’t owe anyone keeping his business in WNY. It’s not complicated. It’s a balance. 

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

That’s a bit of a defeatist perspective, lots of places don’t have football teams, and ya know, they live great lives without the NFL being in their towns and cities. 

 

Maybe, but a lot of that has to do with never having a team or basing your entire identity on said team in the first place. Ripping the Bills out of Buffalo would leave a crater that could never be filled.

 

Not saying it's healthy to be this way, but it's where we are at.

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

On that we agree. The fans don’t owe him a stadium. But…Pegula also doesn’t owe anyone keeping his business in WNY. It’s not complicated. It’s a balance. 

It depends on if one wants to submit to extortion or not, me I’’d just tell him to pack his bags and hit the road, and go buy tickets to the UB games, really quite simple. 

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe, but a lot of that has to do with never having a team or basing your entire identity on said team in the first place. Ripping the Bills out of Buffalo would leave a crater that could never be filled.

 

Not saying it's healthy to be this way, but it's where we are at.

Only for half a generation and then it would be like they never existed. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

It depends on if one wants to submit to extortion or not, me I’’d just tell him to pack his bags and hit the road, and go buy tickets to the UB games, really quite simple. 

You certainly have that right. Knock yourself out! You do realize there are all sorts of public improvements that your tax dollars fund that you’ll never personally take advantage of, right?

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It depends on if one wants to submit to extortion or not, me I’’d just tell him to pack his bags and hit the road, and go buy tickets to the UB games, really quite simple. 

 

 

You know you're paying for SoFi stadium and you dont even LIKE those teams, right?

 

It's about time NYC and Albany chip in to help Buffalo have nice things.

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

You certainly have that right. Knock yourself out! You do realize there are all sorts of public improvements that your tax dollars fund that you’ll never personally take advantage of, right?

Yup, sure do, corporate welfare is a bad thing to get strung out on / addicted to, it’s a scam they do not need taxpayers dollars in any way shape or form to be a profitable business, don’t fall prey to the propaganda. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

Yup, sure do, corporate welfare is a bad thing to get strung out on / addicted to, it’s a scam they do not need taxpayers dollars in any way shape or form to be a profitable business, don’t fall prey to the propaganda. 

Wouldn’t it be easier to post “Get off my lawn!” Again, keep up the fight if it makes you feel better. I’m assuming you don’t attend Bills games.

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You know you're paying for SoFi stadium and you dont even LIKE those teams, right?

 

It's about time NYC and Albany chip in to help Buffalo have nice things.

You do realize that NYC / Albany/ that area do the propping up of the entire state economically right, and that western NY would be among poorest states in the country without NYC and it’s surrounding area right??

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

You do realize that NYC / Albany/ that area do the propping up of the entire state economically right, and that western NY would be among poorest states in the country without NYC and it’s surrounding area right??

 

Absolutely, which is why I want their money for the WNY region. NYC is good for $2B by breakfast. Git r dun.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Wouldn’t it be easier to post “Get off my lawn!” Again, keep up the fight if it makes you feel better. I’m assuming you don’t attend Bills games.

I attended on occasion, I am retired and travel a lot so not living in the area, although I have family in Rochester, 

 

Oh, and it’s not about “get if my lawn” it’s about not ball washing billionaires, through one’s actions. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Absolutely, which is why I want their money for the WNY region. NYC is good for $2B by breakfast. Git r dun.

The funny part is that the NYC stadium isn’t even in New York! 😂

[Arkady Renko]

4 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

You do realize that NYC / Albany/ that area do the propping up of the entire state economically right, and that western NY would be among poorest states in the country without NYC and it’s surrounding area right??

 

WNY would be far better off if the NYPA didn't siphon off the cheap electricity for "economic development" projects across the state.  NYC also can't function without the power, landfills and clean water that upstate supplies.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I attended on occasion, I am retired and travel a lot so not living in the area, although I have family in Rochester, 

 

Oh, and it’s not about “get if my lawn” it’s about not ball washing billionaires, through one’s actions. 

I’m not going to try to talk you down from your rant. It appears to be your happy place. So vote with your feet! If asked to pay into the stadium…move! 

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I've noticed that a large proportion of downtown advocates are out-of-towners.

 

They want to come to Buffalo, stay in a hotel, eat at a heated restaurant, and walk a block to the game.

That makes sense.

[longtimebillsfan]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I really dont give a crap about tailgating. There will still be tailgating options, and I'd bet you would see a number of private lots open up as well.

 

But I'm here for football. I go to the games to watch the Bills. We have a raucous time inside while the game is going on.

 

The tailgate stuff only blew up when the team was horrible during the drought to make the gamedays at least somewhat fun. We dont suck anymore.

 

If I wanted to re-live my college days, I'd go back on alumni weekend.

 

edit to add: We've had GREAT times in Nashville, pre-game, in their bar district. It would be similar. Way less hassle of setting up and breaking down and cleaning up. Show up, party, and let someone else deal with the bs while you get to walk into the game.

Hi Dr.:  I respect your feelings on tailgating, but believe you are in the minority.  My season tickets go back to 1973 when the stadium first opened. There was massive tailgating almost from the very beginning and it continued to grow.  Many RV owners begin there "paring lot ritual" on Saturday for Sunday games and stay through  Monday.  The RV group has become quite a close knit community.

 

The Bills have been relevant since the McDermott/Beane era.  I don't believe tailgating has diminished since we no longer suck.  If anything, it has grown since our tailgating rituals have received more national coverage.

 

Since you don't care for tailgating, you certainly don't have to participate.  But why take this opportunity away from the thousands of Bills fans that enjoy to extend their game day enjoyment of barbequing, having some adult beverages, and communing with other Bills fans before and after games?

 

The Raider's lost their tailgating options with  their new stadium being located on a postage stamp lot near the Las Vegas strip.  Let's hope this does not happen the the greatest fan base in the NFL.

 

Go Orchard Park Bills!!!

[1stgm1993]

1 hour ago, billykay said:

No one ever talks about it but what are the pros & cons of building a stadium for the Bulls & Bills on or near the Amherst campus ?

there was an topic posting on here a while again about this 

[DrDawkinstein]

34 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Hi Dr.:  I respect your feelings on tailgating, but believe you are in the minority.  My season tickets go back to 1973 when the stadium first opened. There was massive tailgating almost from the very beginning and it continued to grow.  Many RV owners begin there "paring lot ritual" on Saturday for Sunday games and stay through  Monday.  The RV group has become quite a close knit community.

 

The Bills have been relevant since the McDermott/Beane era.  I don't believe tailgating has diminished since we no longer suck.  If anything, it has grown since our tailgating rituals have received more national coverage.

 

Since you don't care for tailgating, you certainly don't have to participate.  But why take this opportunity away from the thousands of Bills fans that enjoy to extend their game day enjoyment of barbequing, having some adult beverages, and communing with other Bills fans before and after games?

 

The Raider's lost their tailgating options with  their new stadium being located on a postage stamp lot near the Las Vegas strip.  Let's hope this does not happen the the greatest fan base in the NFL.

 

Go Orchard Park Bills!!!

 

First off, thanks for the thought out response.

 

Don't get me wrong. I tailgate. Have been since I started going to games with my dad in 1987 (had to tailgate that strike year because, again, it was the only thing that made going worth it, haha). And just had a pretty decent party when I was up for the Washington game in September. I fully understand and appreciate the tradition and what it provides to the gameday experience.

 

And you will absolutely be able to do that at a new downtown stadium. Especially the RVs. That is good money for the Bills, and they arent going to lose it.

 

I havent been to a single downtown stadium that didn't still have some (plenty) of tailgating available. Even Nashville which I referenced for its proximity to bars, has a ton of parking for tailgating. Jacksonville is downtown and on the water, and still has a ton of tailgating (Lot X 4EVA!). Pittsburgh, plenty of tailgating. There might be one or two out there, but few and far between.

 

The Pegulas/Bills understand what a huge part of the brand's identity is centered around tailgating. They will do what they can to get rid of the table jumping and butt-chugging, but they will absolutely have parking lots to tailgate in. There is too much merch to sell, and money to make by charging to park in their special tailgate lots.

 

The beauty of the downtown stadium is the potential to provide BOTH tailgating and an indoor/bar experience option. Not just one.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[longtimebillsfan]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

First off, thanks for the thought out response.

 

Don't get me wrong. I tailgate. Have been since I started going to games with my dad in 1987 (had to tailgate that strike year because, again, it was the only thing that made going worth it, haha). And just had a pretty decent party when I was up for the Washington game in September. I fully understand and appreciate the tradition and what it provides to the gameday experience.

 

And you will absolutely be able to do that at a new downtown stadium. Especially the RVs. That is good money for the Bills, and they arent going to lose it.

 

I havent been to a single downtown stadium that didn't still have some (plenty) of tailgating available. Even Nashville which I referenced for it's proximity to bars, has a ton of parking for tailgating. Jacksonville is downtown and on the water, and still has a ton of tailgating (Lot X 4EVA!). Pittsburgh, plenty of tailgating. There might be one or two out there, but few and far between.

 

The Pegulas/Bills understand what a huge part of the brand's identity is centered around tailgating. They will do what they can to get rid of the table jumping and butt-chugging, but they will absolutely have parking lots to tailgate in. There is too much merch to sell, and money to make by charging to park in their special tailgate lots.

 

The beauty of the downtown stadium is the potential to provide BOTH tailgating and an indoor/bar experience option. Not just one.

If there is sufficient parking for all that want to tailgate, that would be okay.  I still have a personal preference for OP.  Nostalgia is tough to deal with.  Many memories of good times with family members at the stadium that are no longer with us.

 

We will see what happens.

[DrDawkinstein]

37 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

If there is sufficient parking for all that want to tailgate, that would be okay.  I still have a personal preference for OP.  Nostalgia is tough to deal with.  Many memories of good times with family members at the stadium that are no longer with us.

 

We will see what happens.

 

Right on.

 

My dad and grandfather had a lot of memories from the Rock Pile. They moved on pretty easily. It'll all be fine. Gotta keep moving forward.

 

Go Bills!

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, billykay said:

No one ever talks about it but what are the pros & cons of building a stadium for the Bulls & Bills on or near the Amherst campus ?

As someone else said, there was a long thread on this a few weeks ago. I actually think it's a great idea. Mostly because it would provide the State of New York a convenient excuse to kick in some major money towards the project.  But it's much more than that. UB Amherst has the land and road infrastructure already in place. The Bulls would play at OP for the two years of construction. Nobody would care. Then both teams would move into the new facility when complete.  There would no disruption to the Bills team or fans during construction. Amherst also has the parking lots, and room for more, so the tailgating tradition could continue. It's also much less impacted by lake-effect wind and snow if the stadium ended up being an outdoor venue (but with the State chipping in, it would seem that a dome would allow for way more university related events throughout the year and therefore a much better investment).  And lastly the Pegulas can probably write off their contribution as a donation to the public University.

[Success]

I'm super tired and can't read through this whole thing.  Apologies in advance.

 

Can anyone give me a summary?  Are we keeping the Bills in Buffalo, or are they fair game for the vultures?

 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

 

WNY would be far better off if the NYPA didn't siphon off the cheap electricity for "economic development" projects across the state.  NYC also can't function without the power, landfills and clean water that upstate supplies.  

Those things don’t make anywhere near as much money as the down state economy does, that and the electric grid isn’t owned by western NY, we western New Yorkers aren’t separate from the rest of the state, and we would be a very poor state on our own, think Mississippi poor, ya gotta know where you bread is buttered, or as the classic Clint Eastwood line goes, a man has got to know his limitations…, 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Don Otreply

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Those things don’t make anywhere near as much money as the down state economy does, that and the electric grid isn’t owned by western NY, we western New Yorkers aren’t separate from the rest of the state, and we would be a very poor state on our own, think Mississippi poor, ya gotta know where you bread is buttered, or as the classic Clint Eastwood line goes, a man has got to know his limitations…, 

True, but you probably don't want to live in a country where all the money stays exactly where it's made. That system breaks down really fast. Where does it stop? At the County level? The City level? The neighborhood level? The street? The house?

[Since1981]

Upstate gets more $ from NYS per capita than NYC, LI. That is a fact. However, if we were two states, upstate would not have laws, regs, tax, more at this level. Things like Scaffold Law (gravity liability) would never pass in “Upper New York State”. Upstate laws would look more like NH Live Free or Die….

 

that said, time for NYS to build a stadium even remotely like Yankees!!

[purple haze]

On 11/2/2021 at 8:05 PM, Since1981 said:

Remember when we used to say “weather was a competitive advantage”? Aka ground and pound days? That’s not the 2021 NFL except for King Henry—-ONE GUY!

 

offenses, QB, receivers, special teams…no FA wants to play in the constant winds over Lake Erie. 
 

it is a competitive disadvantage to have excessive winds for recruitment and fan attendance late season.  Crazy to build without an “enclosure” from wind. 

John Brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley were all FA’s.  They all did and do well playing in OP.  🤷🏾‍♂️

10 hours ago, nucci said:

he didn't say they would quit or not play.

Then it’s an irrelevant argument in support of a roof.  They’ll come to work where the money is, just like any other person.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by purple haze

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Those things don’t make anywhere near as much money as the down state economy does, that and the electric grid isn’t owned by western NY, we western New Yorkers aren’t separate from the rest of the state, and we would be a very poor state on our own, think Mississippi poor, ya gotta know where you bread is buttered, or as the classic Clint Eastwood line goes, a man has got to know his limitations…, 

Yeah take away the richest city in the world lol.. of course the burden of the money in the state comes from the city 

 

And buffalo is Mississippi poor.. it has some of the highest poverty rates in the country and has for 20+ years

Edited November 4, 2021 by Buffalo716

[nucci]

5 hours ago, purple haze said:

  🤷🏾‍♂️

Then it’s an irrelevant argument in support of a roof.  They’ll come to work where the money is, just like any other person.  

some players may have a preference, that's all. Brady loves playing in the warm weather in Florida

[purple haze]

On 11/4/2021 at 2:26 AM, nucci said:

some players may have a preference, that's all. Brady loves playing in the warm weather in Florida

I get that.  But Brady only went there because Belichick pushed him out the door.  Tre White, I know, likes that southern weather, but he re-signed.  Taron Johnson is from Northern California.  He re-signed.  Milano is from Florida.  Re-signed.  
 

For most, enjoying where they play (having success) and getting paid will trump weather concerns.