Raiders vs Chargers MNF Game thread

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

32 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Try searching harder.  Like using the word....Josh.

 

I've been critical of him, but I had every right to. He was terrible his first two years and it's not even arguable. 

 

He lit it up last year and I shot him the praises, accepted his growth and even ponied up money to a board member because he exceeded all expectations and I lost a bet. 

 

This year Josh was weak in his first two games and steadily increased play to resemble his former year. I'm happy and excited for this team and glad Josh is performing the way he should as a first rounder with a big contract, however...I do believe Herbert is better and will end up better overall in terms of performance. 

 

I've made the Marino / Kelly comparison, would I rather have the better Qb or the Super Bowls...Super Bowls obviously. 

 

If you want to cherry pick, at least be honest. 

 

All one has to do is click on your name and work their way backwards.  You are clearly an Allen hater from jump street so stop denying it.  In fact, in reading your posts - you're quite the whiner.  You're negative to positive ratio about this team is probably 98:2.  

[Scott7975]

Herbert is a damn good QB but he is also Mr Dink and Dunk.

 

164 passes

9 passes over 20 yards

51 passes 10 to 20 yards

113 passes under 10 yards

 

Completed air yards: 5.4

Intended air yards: 7.3

 

For reference Josh Allen is CAY: 6.9 IAC: 9.4

 

 

Im not saying Herbert can't throw the ball downfield.  It's unknown because he doesn't.  I would think a good defensive coordinator would see that and try to take away all this short stuff and see what happens.

[TwistofFate]

44 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

All one has to do is click on your name and work their way backwards.  You are clearly an Allen hater from jump street so stop denying it.  In fact, in reading your posts - you're quite the whiner.  You're negative to positive ratio about this team is probably 98:2.  

I'm the whiner?  You consistently whine about everyone that even remotely questions Allen. 

 

Then you stalk people and reply the same old tired replies of how you're an OG hater from way back. 

 

I look at the team objectively on a year to year week to week basis. 

 

I'm sure I can sit and pull up tons of old posts from people on this board that are questionable in hindsight, but I have a life and don't feel the need to waste it on that. 

 

My posts and feelings are based on the present, not 3 years ago. 

 

Get over it, move on, or perhaps seek counseling if you can't. 

 

Good day. 

[billybob71]

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I'm the whiner?  You consistently whine about everyone that even remotely questions Allen. 

 

Then you stalk people and reply the same old tired replies of how you're an OG hater from way back. 

 

I look at the team objectively on a year to year week to week basis. 

 

I'm sure I can sit and pull up tons of old posts from people on this board that are questionable in hindsight, but I have a life and don't feel the need to waste it on that. 

 

My posts and feelings are based on the present, not 3 years ago. 

 

Get over it, move on, or perhaps seek counseling if you can't. 

 

Good day. 

sorry you may look at the team objectively but when it comes to JA u a bit skewed in the hopes of proving your past negative takes, no biggie tho half the media "experts" were guilty of the same

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Try searching harder.  Like using the word....Josh.

 

I've been critical of him, but I had every right to. He was terrible his first two years and it's not even arguable. 

 

He lit it up last year and I shot him the praises, accepted his growth and even ponied up money to a board member because he exceeded all expectations and I lost a bet. 

 

This year Josh was weak in his first two games and steadily increased play to resemble his former year. I'm happy and excited for this team and glad Josh is performing the way he should as a first rounder with a big contract, however...I do believe Herbert is better and will end up better overall in terms of performance. 

 

I've made the Marino / Kelly comparison, would I rather have the better Qb or the Super Bowls...Super Bowls obviously. 

 

If you want to cherry pick, at least be honest. 

Only his stat line was bad Allen's his first two years. If you actually watched him play you knew, or should have known, that Allen was a very special developing talent. Lots of posters on this board knew enuf football to see that, and they said as much (and not because they were homers). Not you I guess. Anybody can read a stat line. Seeing the value or lack thereof in a developing player is the hard part. 

As for saying that Herbert is going to be better than Allen, you are of course entitled to your opinion but I don't share it (though I like Herbert a lot). I wouldn't be too impressed with any silly thing Schefter said. To me Allen looks to have an even stronger arm, is more dangerous as a runner or as a passer outside the pocket, and offers the playcaller more options for gameplanning (which makes the O overall more difficult to contain). I could be dead wrong but those are my first impressions.

[TwistofFate]

12 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Only his stat line was bad Allen's his first two years. If you actually watched him play you knew, or should have known, that Allen was a very special developing talent. Lots of posters on this board knew enuf football to see that, and they said as much (and not because they were homers). Not you I guess. Anybody can read a stat line. Seeing the value or lack thereof in a developing player is the hard part. 

As for saying that Herbert is going to be better than Allen, you are of course entitled to your opinion but I don't share it (though I like Herbert a lot). I wouldn't be too impressed with any silly thing Schefter said. To me Allen looks to have an even stronger arm, is more dangerous as a runner or as a passer outside the pocket, and offers the playcaller more options for gameplanning (which makes the O overall more difficult to contain). I could be dead wrong but those are my first impressions.

There is no question his physical traits his size his arm strength all of these intangibles were there. The bottom line is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he had a very lengthy history of having this problem.

 

I really don't care to rehash Josh Allen conversations from 2 years ago that's not where he is now what's done is done and he's made a drastic improvement as unlikely as it was he did it and I'm perfectly happy with what we have at quarterback.

 

But to be jumped all over because I believe that there are other QBs that are better is ridiculous.

 

I've been a fan of this team for over 30 years endured the drought and I've watched a plethora of quarterbacks that were claimed to be the next big thing which never manifested.

 

Now I'm on to the Chiefs.

28 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

sorry you may look at the team objectively but when it comes to JA u a bit skewed in the hopes of proving your past negative takes, no biggie tho half the media "experts" were guilty of the same

Wtf are you talking about? 

 

Every single person in the media saw the same thing I did he looked bad really bad for two years. That isn't having a bias or having skewed hopes of him being bad he was bad.

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

There is no question his physical traits his size his arm strength all of these intangibles were there. The bottom line is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he had a very lengthy history of having this problem.

 

I really don't care to rehash Josh Allen conversations from 2 years ago that's not where he is now what's done is done and he's made a drastic improvement as unlikely as it was he did it and I'm perfectly happy with what we have at quarterback.

 

But to be jumped all over because I believe that there are other QBs that are better is ridiculous.

 

I've been a fan of this team for over 30 years endured the drought and I've watched a plethora of quarterbacks that were claimed to be the next big thing which never manifested.

 

Now I'm on to the Chiefs.

ok we don't have to go there and I respect your fanhood. But I can't help it I've just got to say that Josh's accuracy was very spotty, inconsistent,  but for reasons that suggested it was correctible. Beyond his ability as a runner and appearance as a rare physical specimen, there was plenty of college tape of Josh making all the throws accurately. He just needed to do it more often. Thats why Beane wanted him so bad. Given the degree of difficulty of many of his throws, Allen is now one of the most accurate QBs in the league.

[billybob71]

28 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

There is no question his physical traits his size his arm strength all of these intangibles were there. The bottom line is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he had a very lengthy history of having this problem.

 

I really don't care to rehash Josh Allen conversations from 2 years ago that's not where he is now what's done is done and he's made a drastic improvement as unlikely as it was he did it and I'm perfectly happy with what we have at quarterback.

 

But to be jumped all over because I believe that there are other QBs that are better is ridiculous.

 

I've been a fan of this team for over 30 years endured the drought and I've watched a plethora of quarterbacks that were claimed to be the next big thing which never manifested.

 

Now I'm on to the Chiefs.

Wtf are you talking about? 

 

Every single person in the media saw the same thing I did he looked bad really bad for two years. That isn't having a bias or having skewed hopes of him being bad he was bad.

not even close to being bad, i was excited right away posting comments like this kid is gonna be special and the bills have finally found their franchise QB, his potential, talent and ability were glaringly obvious to me and many others right away, but u keep being u this conversation grows tiresome for me as i am sure it does for you as well

[jkeerie]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What about the posts listing all the things he hasn't done? I call that running down. 

 

 

I think that was in response to ToF listing all the things that Herbert has done that Josh hasn't.  So it's a bit of tit for tat.  Prior to that, no one was dissing Herbert.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Try searching harder.  Like using the word....Josh.

 

I've been critical of him, but I had every right to. He was terrible his first two years and it's not even arguable. 

 

He lit it up last year and I shot him the praises, accepted his growth and even ponied up money to a board member because he exceeded all expectations and I lost a bet. 

 

This year Josh was weak in his first two games and steadily increased play to resemble his former year. I'm happy and excited for this team and glad Josh is performing the way he should as a first rounder with a big contract, however...I do believe Herbert is better and will end up better overall in terms of performance. 

 

I've made the Marino / Kelly comparison, would I rather have the better Qb or the Super Bowls...Super Bowls obviously. 

 

If you want to cherry pick, at least be honest. 

 

I did a fair search, explained exactly what I did, and turned up a bunch of posts that went beyond being critical.  It's "on you" to refute and show that you've given the man his propers, not to whinge about "cherry picking", but OK.  I'll search on your screenname and "Josh" looking for that "plenty of praise".  Know what I found between May 1 and 34 minutes ago?

 

One post.  Here:

 

One post, to whit:

Quote

 

 

I think there's someone who's not being honest here, and it isn't me.

 

In for the stuff I quoted, you went way beyond criticism.  You said he was a bust, would be replaced by Fromm, you'd be "willing to bet anything" he would be terrible last year, every meaningful statistic showed he was going to fail, etc etc etc.   Even Sam Momson had the balls to say he was wrong, but you switched to "the coaching" "the rest of the cast matters" team as a whole is dominant, etc.

 

Bottom line:  Looking for that "plenty of praise" from you, honest searches including the one you told me to make, Not finding it.

 

2ndary point: Your posting history comparing other QB to Allen casts considerable doubt on your evaluation of Herbert as better than Allen.  Again, no question that Herbert is a fine young QB.  He is.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I look at the team objectively on a year to year week to week basis. 

 

You keep using use that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

My posts and feelings are based on the present, not 3 years ago. 

 

Certainly. 

But we're also entitled to look back at your posts from 17 months ago or a year ago, and ask "how did that work out?" when evaluating your posts in the present.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

There is no question his physical traits his size his arm strength all of these intangibles were there. The bottom line is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he had a very lengthy history of having this problem.

 

This is a truly bad take.  If Allen absolutely couldn't hit the "broad side of a barn", then Beane et al would have been fools to draft him.  They aren't fools, and "he was bad for 2 years" is a take about as shallow as a seasonal stream in Missouri August.

 

The problem wasn't that he had a "very lengthy history" of "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn", it was that he was inconsistent in his accuracy, and had a history of refusing to take the checkdown over the "no risk it, no biscuit" deep shot.  In his own words to Pat McAfee: "Mama didn't raise no b****"

 

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

But to be jumped all over because I believe that there are other QBs that are better is ridiculous.

 

It's fair for you to believe that other QBs are better.  When you state that opinion about a young, talented QB like Herbert who started out with a solid cast around him and has put up some good stats and shown good traits, it's also fair for people to go look at your previous takes about which QBs were busts and failures and which QBs were better, and judge your beliefs accordingly.  Herbert may become better than Allen, Herbert may not become better than Allen.  Time will tell.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Heard that. And said that Mahomes and Herbert were the best 2 young QBs in the game. No mention of our boy.

 

Murray, Burrows and (based on pre-draft analysis) Lawrence should really be in the mix.  Hell, even Mayfield has staked a claim to at least be part of the convo.

 

Nothing against Herbert - I think he's looked great.  But to put him on a pedestal with Mahomes right now and omit these guys is silly.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, jkeerie said:

I think that was in response to ToF listing all the things that Herbert has done that Josh hasn't.  So it's a bit of tit for tat.  Prior to that, no one was dissing Herbert.  

 

Why get into silly tit for tat though? It just comes across as childish. And this thread is not the first place it has happened. 

[TwistofFate]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I did a fair search, explained exactly what I did, and turned up a bunch of posts that went beyond being critical.  It's "on you" to refute and show that you've given the man his propers, not to whinge about "cherry picking", but OK.  I'll search on your screenname and "Josh" looking for that "plenty of praise".  Know what I found between May 1 and 34 minutes ago?

 

One post.  Here:

 

One post, to whit:

 

I think there's someone who's not being honest here, and it isn't me.

 

In for the stuff I quoted, you went way beyond criticism.  You said he was a bust, would be replaced by Fromm, you'd be "willing to bet anything" he would be terrible last year, every meaningful statistic showed he was going to fail, etc etc etc.   Even Sam Momson had the balls to say he was wrong, but you switched to "the coaching" "the rest of the cast matters" team as a whole is dominant, etc.

 

Bottom line:  Looking for that "plenty of praise" from you, honest searches including the one you told me to make, Not finding it.

 

2ndary point: Your posting history comparing other QB to Allen casts considerable doubt on your evaluation of Herbert as better than Allen.  Again, no question that Herbert is a fine young QB.  He is.

 

 

I can keep going if you like.  You, my friend, are the dishonest one.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, billybob71 said:

didnt you hear?  they already put him in the HOF in the pre game

 

Announcer hot takes are sometimes ridiculous.  I'm told they have scripted narratives to push.

 

I remember watching one game where Lamar Jackson couldn't seem to buy a completion (his receivers weren't helping him), he would not pull the trigger to the open guys outside the numbers, and he scrambled and fumbled just as the announcer said "and if he keeps playing like it is, just put his bust in Canton already" or words to that effect.  It was absurd.  And I like Lamar Jackson.

[jkeerie]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why get into silly tit for tat though? It just comes across as childish. And this thread is not the first place it has happened. 

I agree, GunnerBill.  Folks get triggered on this site and it gets not only childish but snippy.  There are some folks that post and I question why they are on this forum except to criticize?   We need to learn to "agree to disagree."   I love the Bills, but I am also a fan of the NFL and appreciate good players and good plays.   Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Murray, Burrow are all good young quarterbacks.  Each team got their guy...but it's the team that wins, not just one player.  So... Go Bills! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

I can keep going if you like.  You, my friend, are the dishonest one.

 

Great.  You said you love him during the 2nd half of a Pats game where we were kicking butt, you said he's good "this year, but let's see him in the playoffs" and you said he "defied the odds" "kudos to him".  I don't call that "plenty of praise"  - Revelation 3:16 to me vs. what you've said about Herbert just in this thread - but it's something, I guess.   At least you paid up on your $100 bet.  Kudos to you for that.

 

You can't even concede that you were called out fairly for your prior bad takes.  Instead it's somehow "dishonest" to point them out.  Pshaw.

 

I think my work here is done.

 

from Owen Wister, The Virginian:

A passenger came along, demanding in an important voice, “Where are these frogs?” He was a prominent New York after-dinner speaker, they whispered me, and out for a holiday in his private car. Reaching us and walking to the Virginian, he said cheerily, “How much do you want for your frogs, my friend?”

“You got a friend hyeh?” said the Virginian. “That's good, for yu' need care taken of yu'.” And the prominent after-dinner speaker did not further discommode us.

 

[TwistofFate]

 

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great.  You said you love him during the 2nd half of a Pats game where we were kicking butt, you said he's good "this year, but let's see him in the playoffs" and you said he "defied the odds" "kudos to him".  I don't call that "plenty of praise"  - Revelation 3:16 to me vs. what you've said about Herbert just in this thread - but it's something, I guess.

 

At least you paid your $100 bet.  Kudos to you for that.

 

You can't even concede that you were fairly called out for your prior bad takes.  Instead it's somehow "dishonest" to point them out.

 

I think my work here is done.

 

I'm waiting for the installers to come template my kitchen.  We all have our hobbies.  If you don't like something, why whinge about it and insult it?  Just don't read it.

yeah, your dishonesty comes from your "research."  Which really wasn't research at all.  You simply took a lot of hot takes from 2 years ago.  As I've already stated, i've given Allen praise and will continue to.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Not sure I agree with this take.  OK, I know I don't agree with this take.  Execution is a team game and the execution around any player certainly allows that player to execute in a better way.  Additionally, what do they say, steel sharpens steel.  Having good coaches and good players in the program supports much better and deeper growth of all of them.

That's true but I believe it's taken a bit of of contexts. We are talking elite and franchise Qbs. Take a look at Tyrod, Teddy, Fitz, Geoff, Cousins, Cam, Jimmy G, etc...Elite and franchise doesn't apply. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

yeah, your dishonesty comes from your "research."  Which really wasn't research at all.  You simply took a lot of hot takes from 2 years ago.

 

I stated exactly what searches I did and exactly what the results were.

If anyone else did the same search, they would come up with the same result.

 

That's not dishonesty.  Dishonesty seems to be another word you keep using where Inigo Montoya calls it.  We've all seen your previous hot takes. 

 

But by all means, keep banging that 'lil drum.

 

Good on you for digging hard and deep enough into your posting past to uncover 5 positive comments. 

 

And kudos for paying your $100 bet.

[Wyobills89]

I just got to put this out there. That hunter Renfrow punt fake pass break up was exceptional. He isn't the greatest athlete but dang i love his football instincts. 

[syhuang]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

 

yeah, your dishonesty comes from your "research."  Which really wasn't research at all.  You simply took a lot of hot takes from 2 years ago.  As I've already stated, i've given Allen praise and will continue to.

 

I did the same search, ie. your username and "Josh" keyword and came up with the same search results you have issues with.

 

On the other hand, I'm not able to get the search outputs you posted. What did you input so the search output shows exactly what you posted, ie. not cherry picking?

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

 

yeah, your dishonesty comes from your "research."  Which really wasn't research at all.  You simply took a lot of hot takes from 2 years ago.  As I've already stated, i've given Allen praise and will continue to.

 

So what you are saying here is it took you 12 games to "officially get on the Allen bandwagon" and it took you 4 games to praise Herbert.

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, syhuang said:

 

I did the same search, ie. your username and "Josh" keyword and came up with the same search results you have issues with.

 

On the other hand, I'm not able to get the search outputs you posted. What did you input so the search output shows exactly what you posted, ie. not cherry picking?

 

 

I don't know how to use all these funky search functions, I simply went through my post history. 

 

Apparently the search feature does not work that well. 

[syhuang]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't know how to use all these funky search functions, I simply went through my post history. 

 

Apparently the search feature does not work that well. 

 

Got it. So you're wrong when asking others to search your username and "Josh" keyword previously and claimed that would find the posts you'd like others to see.

[TwistofFate]

55 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

So what you are saying here is it took you 12 games to "officially get on the Allen bandwagon" and it took you 4 games to praise Herbert.

Nah, I was praising Herbert last year when he was owning every rookie record.  Of course you can't talk about it here because it's taboo to talk about anyone that may be better than Allen. 

 

I thought he looked much advanced last year and it's continuing on this year. 

 

Bottom line is Allen is our guy, and looks light years ahead of his first two years. I'm happy with him. 

2 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

Got it. So you're wrong when asking others to search your username and "Josh" keyword previously and claimed that would find the posts you'd like others to see.

Yea, I'm wrong for recommending someone search more than one keyword while doing research....ok!

[syhuang]

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Yea, I'm wrong for recommending someone search more than one keyword while doing research....ok!

 

Glad you admit your mistake. It's a lesson for you that if you have tried the search as you claimed, you'd know it wouldn't show the posts you want others to see. That would have saved you lots of time arguing others cherry picking your posts or even calling out others dishonesty.

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

So what you are saying here is it took you 12 games to "officially get on the Allen bandwagon" and it took you 4 games to praise Herbert.

Herbert was amazing last year.  It was evident with him breaking every rookie record that he was going to be great. 

13 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

Glad you admit your mistake. It's a lesson for you that if you have tried the search as you claimed, you'd know it wouldn't show the posts you want others to see. That would have saved you lots of time arguing others cherry picking your posts or even calling out others dishonesty.

It's cherry picking because he didn't care to look at any other phrase.  My post was a recommendation to search for other things than just Allen.

 

If someone's going to claim to do research to get to the bottom of something don't you think you look for every possible key Ward that would get you to the true answer?

 

I don't always call Josh Allen Allen sometimes I call him simply Josh. Even though all of my responses that should have come up under Allen that showed I gave him praise we're not posting that is where the dishonesty comes from. Cherry Picked responses then included the key word Allen we're only posts to try to attempt to paint me in a negative light. While I've been critical of Allen and his first two years I've given Josh plenty of Praise through last year and into this year including a post it specifically says I love Josh Allen. The moral of the story is if you're going to say that somebody said they had said positive things and Praises you should be looking for proof of positive things and Praises not simply looking for negative comments that are close to two years old.