MAJBobby Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There isn't much starting experience there but there is some talent for sure. Good thing we have Starters in Poyer and Hyde 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, stevewin said: Comparing the importance of gunner vs kicker is obviously not a great comparison. Kickoffs/FGs/EPs vs one of 11 on coverage for maybe 3-4 plays (returnable kicks) a game - and realistically the gunner isn't even involved in the tackle for all of those. Indeed but nor is a starting gunner a good comparison to a 6th or 7th receiver or a 6th or 7th defensive end who is likely nothing but a backup all year. Kumerow had 1 catch last season (I know he wasn't here all year) but Jones made 6 special teams stops. Who had the biggest impact on the Bills winning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Indeed but nor is a starting gunner a good comparison to a 6th or 7th receiver or a 6th or 7th defensive end who is likely nothing but a backup all year. Kumerow had 1 catch last season (I know he wasn't here all year) but Jones made 6 special teams stops. Who had the biggest impact on the Bills winning? Kunerow literally helped us win that game with that amazing TD catch. And why is it everyone acts like ONLY Taiwan was capable of playing gunner and making those 6 stops? This guy is not some HOF ST player, but he’s talked about as it he is utterly irreplaceable as a gunner. I’d rather have the TD catch that actually wins us games and I’m fully confident in Kumerow or someone else contributing to replacing and making those same 6 ST stops. Edited August 31, 2021 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Come on Brandon one more trade and then announce your cuts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Kunerow literally helped us win that game with that amazing TD catch. And why is it everyone acts like ONLY Taiwan was capable of playing gunner and making those 6 stops? This guy is not some HOF ST player, but he’s talked about as it he is utterly irreplaceable as a gunner. I’d rather have the TD catch that actually wins us games Yeah we might of had to beat them by only 22 instead of 29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Kunerow literally helped us win that game with that amazing TD catch. And why is it everyone acts like ONLY Taiwan was capable of playing gunner and making those 6 stops? This guy is not some HOF ST player, but he’s talked about as it he is utterly irreplaceable as a gunner. I’d rather have the TD catch that actually wins us games and I’m fully confident in Kumerow or someone else contributing to replacing and making those same 6 ST stops. Kumerow had 1 catch. Taiwan isn't the only gunner capable of it. But he is the BEST gunner of the options. And this is a Superbowl contending team. You don't make yourselves weaker at a position that plays lots of snaps to keep a guy who plays barely any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Kunerow literally helped us win that game with that amazing TD catch. And why is it everyone acts like ONLY Taiwan was capable of playing gunner and making those 6 stops? This guy is not some HOF ST player, but he’s talked about as it he is utterly irreplaceable as a gunner. I’d rather have the TD catch that actually wins us games Kumerow was waived last year and didn't even finish the season on the team, and now he's an irreplaceable part of the organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, dneveu said: Kumerow was waived last year and didn't even finish the season on the team, and now he's an irreplaceable part of the organization? Amazing huh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Indeed but nor is a starting gunner a good comparison to a 6th or 7th receiver or a 6th or 7th defensive end who is likely nothing but a backup all year. Kumerow had 1 catch last season (I know he wasn't here all year) but Jones made 6 special teams stops. Who had the biggest impact on the Bills winning? Are you saying Jones made 6 ST stops all season? I might use that as more evidence to say he's expendable 😛 Getting off Kumerow specifically (who no doubt will have more than 1 catch this year), I do think there are multiple positions where having an extra position player for depth in case of injury/circustance is more useful. I also think if a single gunner doesn't make a coverage tackle on a good STs unit, comeone else will - and this year the actual number of returned kicks/game is potentially going to be very low. Don't think either of us are going to convince the other at this point - Peace 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Yeah we might of had to beat them by only 22 instead of 29. I am just saying he contributed to that win because wins and losses are determined by the scoreboard. Give me the guy who helps put points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Kumerow had 1 catch. Taiwan isn't the only gunner capable of it. But he is the BEST gunner of the options. And this is a Superbowl contending team. You don't make yourselves weaker at a position that plays lots of snaps to keep a guy who plays barely any. I'm back and forth on this. I'd probably prefer Jones if I knew our WRs will stay healthy all season. But chances of that are low. I see Kumerow as a likely insurance policy, that is worth the drop off at gunner to have another reliable WR, big bodied guy, to round out the WR group. Agree there is a decent chance Kumerow would be inactive on gamedays if he and Jones both made the team (as it stands now, assuming McKenzie and Speedy are healthy), but i think only 1 will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, dneveu said: Kumerow was waived last year and didn't even finish the season on the team, and now he's an irreplaceable part of the organization? No, didn’t say that. I am saying give me a player who contributes more than a one dimensional ST player who isn’t irreplaceable even at his gunner duties. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I am just saying he contributed to that win because wins and losses are determined by the scoreboard. Give me the guy who helps put points on the board. By that logic why do we even care about defense? Just because his contributions are not as obvious as a WR catching a TD doesn't make them irrelevant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Kumerow had 1 catch. Taiwan isn't the only gunner capable of it. But he is the BEST gunner of the options. And this is a Superbowl contending team. You don't make yourselves weaker at a position that plays lots of snaps to keep a guy who plays barely any. You already said it’s not fair to talk about one catch for Kumerow given his short stint on the roster. And his tiny time on the team, he arguably contributed more to our record than Taiwan did over a whole season because Taiwan didn’t do anything last season another gunner couldn’t do. But Taiwan won’t ever make a play on offense. Your argument here is weak because you and I both know that Kumerow is fully capable to fill in for Taiwan as gunner (or others) with similar production there, while we also know Taiwan isn’t ever going to produce any offensive points, or even yards, during the season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: No, didn’t say that. I am saying give me a player who contributes more than a one dimensional ST player who isn’t irreplaceable even at his gunner duties. Finding a receiver on a PS elsewhere to replace Kumerow is to my mind a LOT easier than finding a gunner as good as Taiwan. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, GunnerBill said: Finding a receiver on a PS elsewhere to replace Kumerow is to my mind a LOT easier than finding a gunner as good as Taiwan. What?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, stevewin said: Are you saying Jones made 6 ST stops all season? I might use that as more evidence to say he's expendable 😛 Getting off Kumerow specifically (who no doubt will have more than 1 catch this year), I do think there are multiple positions where having an extra position player for depth in case of injury/circustance is more useful. I also think if a single gunner doesn't make a coverage tackle on a good STs unit, comeone else will - and this year the actual number of returned kicks/game is potentially going to be very low. Don't think either of us are going to convince the other at this point - Peace Not really sure why this has turned into a "Jones vs Kumerow" debate. But the point remains: how far do you dismantle what was a strong unit last season. Roberts, D. Johnson, J. Johnson is currently injured, and we should drop an elite gunner, to boot? It's not just about how many stops a single player got. Special teams is crucial to getting good field position. That's important! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: By that logic why do we even care about defense? Just because his contributions are not as obvious as a WR catching a TD doesn't make them irrelevant. What does this have to do with defense? Some of you guys act like no one in the NFL is capable of making the same SINGLE DIGIT number of ST plays Taiwan did over a full season. I hope some of you buy his jersey, he is obviously irreplaceable and that good lol Edited August 31, 2021 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: You already said it’s not fair to talk about one catch for Kumerow given his short stint on the roster. And his tiny time on the team, he arguably contributed more to our record than Taiwan did over a whole season because Taiwan didn’t do anything last season another gunner couldn’t do. But Taiwan won’t ever make a play on offense. Your argument here is weak because you and I both know that Kumerow is fully capable to fill in for Taiwan as gunner (or others) with similar production there, while we also know Taiwan isn’t ever going to produce any offensive points, or even yards, during the season. I don't accept either of the bolded. Just now, Rocky Landing said: Not really sure why this has turned into a "Jones vs Kumerow" debate. But the point remains: how far do you dismantle what was a strong unit last season. Roberts, D. Johnson, J. Johnson is currently injured, and we should drop an elite gunner, to boot? It's not just about how many stops a single player got. Special teams is crucial to getting good field position. That's important! Indeed to be clear I'd keep both. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I don't accept either of the bolded. Well that’s inconsistent with other posts you’ve made referencing Kumerow being capable of playing gunner (even though you felt Taiwan was better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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