Subjectively speaking, I think this Bills 2021 DL will be better than the Bills 2013 DL

[Victory Formation]

Which is remarkable because the 2013 Bills DL boasted of Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus and Jerry Hughes. I think there will be two elite players who come forth, mainly Carlos Basham and Ed Oliver. I expect a very high level of production right away from Boogie and I think that this year Ed Oliver turns into the player we all wanted him to be. So between those two guys, I think Buffalo will have two very good players on that DL that will pretty much cause havoc and set the tempo for the rest of the Bills D. I also think that Epenesa will have breakout year. I think he will be a good DE for years to come, I don’t see him as an elite DE or someone who will be in that elite upper echelon of DEs, but I think he will be good. Then we have guys like Hughes, Addison, Rousseau and Obada in the mix, who will provide great depth and will keep our starters fresh. Collectively I see these guys contributing to this team as a whole, individually speaking I don’t think you’ll see any gaudy numbers from them, but once again, collectively as a group, they will benefit this team greatly as a unit. Also, I think fans put too much value on Star. I think if it were possible, he would be gone already. I think he will have little to no impact on the outcome of this years DL. He’s just an overpriced tub of doo doo butter at this point. So I think what was our Achilles heel last year will now become the heart and soul of this team’s defense.

[Chandler#81]

🤦‍♂️ None will ‘break out’. Rookies don’t break out, they either play well or they don’t. No Bills DL player gets even 50% of the snaps as it’s very design is Down & Distance influenced -including where every player aligns. As for Star, go plead your case to McDermott -cuz unlike you, he doesn’t know anything..

He’s a starter. Get over yourself.

[maddenboy]

 

24 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Which is remarkable because the 2013 Bills DL boasted of Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus and Jerry Hughes. I think there will be two elite players who come forth, mainly Carlos Basham and Ed Oliver. I expect a very high level of production right away from Boogie and I think that this year Ed Oliver turns into the player we all wanted him to be. So between those two guys, I think Buffalo will have two very good players on that DL that will pretty much cause havoc and set the tempo for the rest of the Bills D. I also think that Epenesa will have breakout year. I think he will be a good DE for years to come, I don’t see him as an elite DE or someone who will be in that elite upper echelon of DEs, but I think he will be good. Then we have guys like Hughes, Addison, Rousseau and Obada in the mix, who will provide great depth and will keep our starters fresh. Collectively I see these guys contributing to this team as a whole, individually speaking I don’t think you’ll see any gaudy numbers from them, but once again, collectively as a group, they will benefit this team greatly as a unit. Also, I think fans put too much value on Star. I think if it were possible, he would be gone already. I think he will have little to no impact on the outcome of this years DL. He’s just an overpriced tub of doo doo butter at this point. So I think what was our Achilles heel last year will now become the heart and soul of this team’s defense.

Star is actually not, currently, a "tub of doo doo butter."   That has been discussed here a lot. 

 

Can you explain why you think Boogie will be good, but "Groot" will be only "in the mix."  Both are at the same starting point, unless you think there's reason to believe that one is better.  If so, that would be a good topic for discussion.

 

And please mix in a paragraph break.  If you want people to actually read all that.  please.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by maddenboy

[Victory Formation]

24 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

🤦‍♂️ None will ‘break out’. Rookies don’t break out, they either play well or they don’t. No Bills DL player gets even 50% of the snaps as it’s very design is Down & Distance influenced -including where every player aligns. As for Star, go plead your case to McDermott -cuz unlike you, he doesn’t know anything..

He’s a starter. Get over yourself.

So are you telling me that you won’t pin this thread?

[IgotBILLStopay]

Dareus 2013 >> Star 2021. Dareus was the single greatest DT talent at the time and was playing for his next contract.

Hughes 2013 >> Hughes 2021 Age is a biatch

Kyle 2013 ~ Oliver 2021 OK this may be a wash since I do love Oliver - but Kyle was Kyle ya know

Mario Williams 2013 >> Rousseau / Epenesa / Basham 2021 . Super Mario was the #1 overall pick for a reason man!!

 

I think if they come close it will be a good achievement, but no way, at this time can we make the statement that 2021 DL >> 2013 DL

 

But, just to humor OP - the 2021 DL does have calling cards that 2013 did not have -

 

1. Depth: 2013 the drop off from the top 4 was huge.

2. Much as I liked Pettine, I think McD- Frazier have a better Defensive system

 

So, it all depends on how quickly the rookies / Epenesa / Oliver takeoff. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by IgotBILLStopay

[IgotBILLStopay]

18 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

So are you telling me that you won’t pin this thread?

More likely to be pincushioned!!

Edited June 27, 2021 by IgotBILLStopay

[transient]

6 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Dareus 2013 >> Star 2021. Dareus was the single greatest DT talent at the time and was playing for his next contract.

Hughes 2013 >> Hughes 2021 Age is a biatch

Kyle 2013 ~ Oliver 2021 OK this may be a wash since I do love Oliver - but Kyle was Kyle ya know

Mario Williams 2013 >> Rousseau / Epenesa / Basham 2021 . Super Mario was the #1 overall pick for a reason man!!

 

I think if they come close it will be a good achievement, but no way, at this time can we make the statement that 2021 DL >> 2013 DL

 

But, just to humor OP - the 2021 DL does have calling cards that 2013 did not have -

 

1. Depth: 2013 the drop off from the top 4 was huge.

2. Much as I liked Pettine, I think McD- Frazier have a better Defensive system

 

So, it all depends on how quickly the rookies / Epenesa / Oliver takeoff. 

At least he got the “subjectively speaking” part right. 🤷‍♂️

[scuba guy]

Is it still the off season

 

Let's make another thread about a dine member

 

That see how many we have know

 

2 on star 1 for will he show up

 one for Replacement with hh

 

1 for boogie which is really well written 

One for grut and how he will not be any good this year. But maybe next like aj

 

And one for aj

 

And of course my favorite let's trade Jerry for a bag of pretzels.

 

Which one did I forget o yeah one about sacks

 

And 1 about big Ed

 

Did I forget one

 

It's summer in ny 

We only have 2 seasons July and winter

[TroutDog]

I think one of the teams in the NFL will win the Super Bowl this year. I think Josh is a great QB. I think Diggs is a great wideout. Lastly, I think I’m done with this thread. 😃 

Edited June 27, 2021 by TroutDog

[Weatherman]

29 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Dareus 2013 >> Star 2021. Dareus was the single greatest DT talent at the time and was playing for his next contract.

Hughes 2013 >> Hughes 2021 Age is a biatch

Kyle 2013 ~ Oliver 2021 OK this may be a wash since I do love Oliver - but Kyle was Kyle ya know

Mario Williams 2013 >> Rousseau / Epenesa / Basham 2021 . Super Mario was the #1 overall pick for a reason man!!

 

I think if they come close it will be a good achievement, but no way, at this time can we make the statement that 2021 DL >> 2013 DL

 

But, just to humor OP - the 2021 DL does have calling cards that 2013 did not have -

 

1. Depth: 2013 the drop off from the top 4 was huge.

2. Much as I liked Pettine, I think McD- Frazier have a better Defensive system

 

So, it all depends on how quickly the rookies / Epenesa / Oliver takeoff. 

All true, but we can’t forget that the 21 LB’s CB’s and SS/FS are superior to 2013 which directly impacts the Dl’s overall effectiveness.  

[NewEra]

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Just change the first two words in your title from "Subjectively Speaking" to "Wishful Thinking" and no one can argue with anything you say.

 

Everything you say could happen, but based on everything seen to date it's 100% based on hope.

 

I do agree Basham will have some impact as a rookie and he may become elite in 3 to 4 years, but expecting that to happen as a rookie is just laughable.  Bruce Smith was far far from elite as a rookie.

 

Oliver too could have a very good season, maybe even elite, but still somewhat of a stretch at this point based on everything seen.

 

I do agree with one thing you stated that Star would be gone already if it were possible.  But then you state: "our Achilles heel last year will now become the heart and soul of this team’s defense"  The problem is none of the guys you mention play his position and fill his role on the defense. 

 

The one player you don't mention at all is Phillips which is kind of ironic as he's the one guy who could take Star's spot and likely was drafted with that intention, but with his injury 2 years ago, so far we haven't seen that.  If that were to happen and Oliver does become the star player he was drafted to be, AND Addison plays at a better level than last season, then maybe the D line overall could become very good to great and a strength of the team this year as the one thing I do think this years team has over 2013 and maybe most teams in the league now is depth.  Our backups can beat their backups!

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

So are you telling me that you won’t pin this thread?

Well, after all it does boil down to a bit of ill informed fluff pretty quickly, it started out okay I guess, but by the end of it your obvious bias against Star turns this thread starting post into a gossip piece, jmo. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Beast]

Rough crowd.

[ngbills]

Sometimes I try to think and nothing happens

[billieve420]

Can Frazier be creative with how he deploys these guys will be the key. Looks like we have some depth but I need to see how they are going to be used in game situations.

[Mc1320]

Don’t believe the hype.  Remember when the coaches and media had nothing but positive things to say about Aaron Maybin after he was drafted but before he stepped on the field for Week 1?

 

Our pass rush was mediocre at best last year.  The run defense was weak for most of the season but benefitted from our offense putting a ton of points on the board.

 

These rookies are now going to go against grown ass men compared to the kids they were just playing.  None of these rooks have seen the likes of a Mekhi Becton in college.  Let’s hope they can contribute something early and develop into impact players as the season goes along.

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, Mc1320 said:

Don’t believe the hype.  Remember when the coaches and media had nothing but positive things to say about Aaron Maybin after he was drafted but before he stepped on the field for Week 1?

 

Our pass rush was mediocre at best last year.  The run defense was weak for most of the season but benefitted from our offense putting a ton of points on the board.

 

These rookies are now going to go against grown ass men compared to the kids they were just playing.  None of these rooks have seen the likes of a Mekhi Becton in college.  Let’s hope they can contribute something early and develop into impact players as the season goes along.

 

Yes, because everyone should be compared to Maybin. 👍

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Which is remarkable because the 2013 Bills DL boasted of Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus and Jerry Hughes. I think there will be two elite players who come forth, mainly Carlos Basham and Ed Oliver. I expect a very high level of production right away from Boogie and I think that this year Ed Oliver turns into the player we all wanted him to be. So between those two guys, I think Buffalo will have two very good players on that DL that will pretty much cause havoc and set the tempo for the rest of the Bills D. I also think that Epenesa will have breakout year. I think he will be a good DE for years to come, I don’t see him as an elite DE or someone who will be in that elite upper echelon of DEs, but I think he will be good. Then we have guys like Hughes, Addison, Rousseau and Obada in the mix, who will provide great depth and will keep our starters fresh. Collectively I see these guys contributing to this team as a whole, individually speaking I don’t think you’ll see any gaudy numbers from them, but once again, collectively as a group, they will benefit this team greatly as a unit. Also, I think fans put too much value on Star. I think if it were possible, he would be gone already. I think he will have little to no impact on the outcome of this years DL. He’s just an overpriced tub of doo doo butter at this point. So I think what was our Achilles heel last year will now become the heart and soul of this team’s defense.

 

So, A guy we are still waiting to "breakout" (Oliver), a rookie (Basham), a guy who didn't do much of anything last year (Epenesa), another rookie (Rousseau), an aging journeyman vet (Addison), yet another Carolina throwaway (Obada), a guy who hasn't payed in a year and a half--and who you figure is washed up anyway (Star)....and Hughes.....will be a better D-line than Williams/Williams/Dareus/Hughes (3 of them Pro Bowlers in 2013)?

 

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

More likely to be pincushioned!!

 

@Victory Formation will be our donkey as in "pin the tail on the donkey?