EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[RiotAct]

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve said this many times on here. There’s not a person on here who’ll play a meaningful part in these negotiations. Nor does anyone know much about it except for some leaked information that may be total nonsense leaked as part of the negotiation by one of the interested parties.

tell that to Dunkirk Don…

[Rochesterfan]

16 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

The other side of the coin is....are there actually any real Bills fans who want a new stadium, who want a new experience, maybe with limited tailgating where Pinto Ron is a mile away from stadium, where fewer seats available to general public and boxes dominate with corporate dollars, and a fancy seats and even higher prices. 

Win a Superbowl, then we can talk.

 

14 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

Of course the people who tailgate and buy tickets want it in OP and don’t want PSL’s. But that doesn’t benefit the vast majority of taxpayers who would have to pay for it. This isn’t like funding schools or roads that benefit the vast majority of taxpayers.

 

If taxpayers have to pay, then it should be downtown and with a retractable roof so it can generate revenue year-round with multiple events, and include or contain a new convention center, both of which would encourage further development downtown and generate additional permanent jobs.

 

Winning a Super Bowl is the craziest criteria ever.  New stadiums are built all of the time and that has nothing to do with it.  In fact it should be the opposite - a new stadium adds revenue and makes it easier for the owner to spend money and build a better roster (if they want).

 

The Bills fans wanting or not wanting a new stadium is irrelevant - a new stadium is needed as the NFL expands and needs more data capacity at stadiums for reviews, replays, and extra cameras.  The current Bills stadium is very limited in the amount of television wires, cameras, and crew that can be in the stadium because of when it was built and how it was built.  
 

As to @Pasta Joe of course if taxpayers are funding it - building it downtown would make more sense and I believe you could get significantly more private funding that way also, but the cost skyrockets and by previous studies the stadium itself is nearly double the cost - plus infrastructure. 
 

There is going to be a lot of give and take and balancing in this.  I believe the Pegula’s are willing to give up the downtown stadium that would benefit them, but in doing that they also expect a larger percentage of public funds.  In reality - I think the amount of money spent using public funds will stay the same in either location - final guess around 8-900 million.  Downtown that will fund about 50% and in OP about 75% of the stadium.  
 

The private funding will be countered by more seats with PSLs (we already have some) some additional “fees” on parking and tickets. 
 

Of course - the stadium only benefits some of the taxpayers, but unfortunately that is how taxes work - they fund many things and some people only use a small portion. 

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

tell that to Dunkirk Don…

Will need to be letter since he cannot get internet in prison.

4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

As to @Pasta Joe of course if taxpayers are funding it - building it downtown would make more sense and I believe you could get significantly more private funding that way also, but the cost skyrockets and by previous studies the stadium itself is nearly double the cost - plus infrastructure. 

 

For tax payers are you talking about residents or businesses?   Both pay taxes.

 

And Erie County is current leaser and one who will pay for cleanup when Rich Stadium is closed.

What makes you think Buffalo will be willing to absorb costs of a stadium since they are not contributing now?

 

By the way there are more tax payers in Erie County than Buffalo and Buffalo has been getting a free ride with hotel and restaurant revenues when Bills play.

[PatsFanNH]

Why should taxpayers have to pay for anything outside of updating the infrastructure around the new stadium? 
 

I am asking because the Patriots new stadium was built with all private funding and the state only had to pay for updating the infrastructure… which it failed to do.  I don’t understand why Buffalo should be different?

[Mango]

39 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

Of course the people who tailgate and buy tickets want it in OP and don’t want PSL’s. But that doesn’t benefit the vast majority of taxpayers who would have to pay for it. This isn’t like funding schools or roads that benefit the vast majority of taxpayers.

 

If taxpayers have to pay, then it should be downtown and with a retractable roof so it can generate revenue year-round with multiple events, and include or contain a new convention center, both of which would encourage further development downtown and generate additional permanent jobs.

 

A new stadium doesn't benefit anybody except the Bills. It is public subsidy for private profit. 

[PastaJoe]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

A new stadium doesn't benefit anybody except the Bills. It is public subsidy for private profit. 

True if it’s only used for Bills games. But a downtown roofed stadium could be used for multiple year-round events.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

I think the founder with a much longer record who didn't accumulate his wealth by destroying areas his business operates gets a longer leash. 

Ralph's was into mining.  😏 I guess they all aquire their wealth by taking from the earth. 

[Punching Bag]

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Ralph's was into mining.  😏 I guess they all aquire their wealth by taking from the earth. 

 

Most of Ralph Wilson's money came from trucking.  He was smart enough to avoid using canals.

[Ned Flanders]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

My assumption based upon what we have read about all of the studies done by the Pegula’s is that the fans do not want PSLs and want to stay in OP for the tailgating.  If we accept those 2 factors as what the studies have shown - then I can fully believe this is going to be a mostly public financed project.

Good point here. ☝️

[Punching Bag]

If this is info put out there by Legends the Pegulas need to throw them under the bus and then run over them multiple times.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Most of Ralph Wilson's money came from trucking.  He was smart enough to avoid using canals.

So Ralph polluted even more! Raped the earth more:

😆

😏

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Why should taxpayers have to pay for anything outside of updating the infrastructure around the new stadium? 
 

I am asking because the Patriots new stadium was built with all private funding and the state only had to pay for updating the infrastructure… which it failed to do.  I don’t understand why Buffalo should be different?

 

This times a million. The city will use money from the people actually using the stadium to actually push a price point that probably keeps a good deal of those people from using it regularly in the future. 

To even start the conversation about public funding for this I think PSE needs to halve the total cost of the build ($1.1B is absurd), add language that prohibits anything even vaguely similar to PSL's, and there has to be a dome. I want an outdoor stadium as much as anybody, but if we are going to subsidize the Pegula's, we need to get more than 10 days a year out of the place. 

[Mango]

 

11 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

If this is info put out there by Legends the Pegulas need to throw them under the bus and then run over them multiple times.

 

While I agree with you at face value. I am also sort of, "meh" on that. The Pegula's hired a firm partially for plausible deniability, but they hired the firm none the less, and the information re: Austin didn't blind side them. They were taking the temperature of the region, hoping that we would get our pitchforks and torches out and charge Albany to keep the team. We didn't, we came at the Pegula's themselves, who will now walk it back. But it doesn't make them anymore genuine. 

Honestly, if the Sabres were not a total dumpster fire for their entire tenure as owners, the region may have reacted differently. 
 

The Pegula's are largely tone deaf. But that is nothing new. 

[teef]

i wonder what the ball park estimate as to what this will cost tax payers on an individual level.  would taxes significantly go up?

[Mango]

Just another rambling from me. 

Has it occurred to anybody, that a guy who pays his taxes in FL, is asking for $1.1B from the State of NY and Erie County? I get it, he has a business here. But he is also not asking for just a little scratch here. Maybe before Terry Pegula asks for money from our income taxes he can start paying his income tax in the state as well. 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

I'm going to wait a while to see how this develops before I potentially go absolutely nuclear on the Pegulas.  However to all of those vilifying Jerry Jones (and don't get me wrong, he sucks a LOT), I will remind you how much of his own money he paid for his new stadium.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, teef said:

i wonder what the ball park estimate as to what this will cost tax payers on an individual level.  would taxes significantly go up?

 

The math isn't actually terrible. It comes out to $75 per resident. But the math adds up quickly. Family with two kids, your house pays $300. I doubt taxes go up, we will just pull those resources from other places. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

The math isn't actually terrible. It comes out to $75 per resident. But the math adds up quickly. Family with two kids, your house pays $300. I doubt taxes go up, we will just pull those resources from other places. 

ah.  so it's per person per household?  and is this only to erie county residents?

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

ah.  so it's per person per household?  and is this only to erie county residents?

 

No, that math was just taking the $1.5B ask and dividing it by the 20M residents equally in the state. The bad math is if you divide the ask by the 900k residents in Erie County. That comes to about $1700 per person. 

[SCBills]

I'm annoyed about any veiled threat to move the team, even though it seems clear as day that it is simply a leverage play, but for the life of me I do not understand why so many of you are upset about them asking for public financing.

 

We get it... he's rich...  We wouldn't have a team in Buffalo if Terry & Kim weren't loaded.  

 

It's a negotiation, but y'all are going to have to fund, at least, some of the stadium... I mean, you do know that, correct?

 

I don't live in Buffalo but I would gladly have some of my taxes go to a stadium, even if our owner was Scrooge McDuck.   Like it or not, y'all pay taxes that enrich a lot of wealthy people that don't provide a football team to WNY.  Who cares if you help line the pockets of someone who does.  

 

This anti-rich sentiment is tiring.