1. Chiefs 2. Browns 3. Bills

[BADOLBILZ]

Not to be trite but I hope that the league and media perception is that Cleveland, Baltimore and Indianapolis are all better than Buffalo and that the AFC East is up for grabs. 

 

This team is better served being doubted at this stage in their roster and development, IMO.    

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Not to be trite but I hope that the league and media perception is that Cleveland, Baltimore and Indianapolis are all better than Buffalo and that the AFC East is up for grabs. 

 

This team is better served being doubted at this stage in their roster and development, IMO.    

Josh Allen is becoming a popular name aroung the league as MVP.

 

Them days might be over...

[Turbo44]

Browns always look great on paper, but there’s something to be said about team chemistry.  Pittsburgh handed the playoff game and couldn’t beat Hennepin when the game was there to take. If they would have beaten KC, Buffalo would have beaten them in Buffalo in the AFC championship game and may have matched up to TB better than KC did

[Big Turk]

Allen >>> Mayfield. That's why the Browns won't leapfrog us. The team with the better QB usually wins when it comes down to it.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Those odds should be very attractive then

 

We do odds in fractions. What do they mean? 

[Inigo Montoya]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Kudos for putting this together, but you lost me right there with the bolded.

 

The Chiefs lost starting DE Tanoh Kpassagnon to NO, starting OLB Damien Wilson to Jacksonville, and starting CB Brashad Breeland is still unsigned as a FA.  Defensive end Alex Okafor saw significant playing time (40-50% of the snaps) and is also an unsigned FA at this point.

 

When they lose or have unsigned 3-4 key defensive contributors who saw a lot of snaps and you come out with "the only free agent they lost of any consequence was Watkins", that begs the question just what do you consider "of any consequence"? 

 

Now it may be that just like OL, they made sufficient FA or draft moves on D to backfill, or have understudies who looked good and are ready to step in, but at least tell us what those were and why they're just as good. 

 

And frankly, it wasn't just the KC OL that was a problem for them in the Superbowl.  Their D gave up 145 yds on the ground and gave TB a TOP edge not to mention 3 TD passing.

 

KC is the team to beat in the AFC until proven otherwise, no argument there.  I don't know as much about the Brownies, but frankly, the significant gaps in your KC analysis make me question how deep and thoughtful your analysis of the Brownies may be.

 

 

 

Kpassagnon signed a two year contract with the Saints worth $4.5 million.  

 

Wilson went to the Jags on a one year contract worth $2 million

 

Okafor played 26% of the snaps last year, not 40-50%, and spent big chunks of 2019 and 2020 on IR.  Maybe Andy is looking for more durability. 

 

Breeland is still a free agent two months into free agency in a position of high demand.  I think that says something about Breeland.

 

Respectfully Hap, I don't think any of these players are key loses to the Chiefs and needed to be pointed out in the OP.  If you feel that my omitting these four players from the KC side of the equation undermines my entire position, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

🍻

 

 

[Numark3]

The browns played the chiefs after they played Pittsburg handing them a game.  The chiefs played us after beating the mediocre browns.  We played the chiefs after grueling games against the colts and ravens.

 

 

LOL at the idea of how Cleveland played KC compared to how we did as any sort of meaningful benchmark 

[Arm of Harm]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Did people even watch the Chiefs vs Browns playoff game? 

 

Chiefs were up 19-10 when Mahomes got injured midway through the 3rd Quarter. 

 

Mahomes did not miss much of the game. The Chiefs were not dominating even when Mahomes was in. 

This is a key point to remember. In the AFC Championship game, all the Chiefs drives resulted in TDs except for two. (1 punt and 1 FG.) The Bills defense did not give the team as a whole a chance to win.

 

In their playoff game against the Chiefs, the Browns defense did a significantly better job than did the Bills. 
 

Both defenses have added more horses. But for the Bills more horses alone won’t be enough. McDermott and Frazier need to come up with a much better plan or scheme than the one they deployed in the AFC Championship game. I hope they’re working on that this off-season. 
 

If the Bills’ early draft picks pan out, and if Lamp is the answer at starting OG, they should have the talent to challenge for the conference championship. But they’re not getting past KC without a better defensive plan. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Now do Bills vs Browns

The bills are better because Josh allen is better thanks baker, I believe McD is better than stefanski (sustained success vs 1 season) and our culture is better.   I would give the overall talent level edge to Cleveland 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We do odds in fractions. What do they mean? 

pretty much 1/1 and 5/2

[Seasons1992]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

On an unrelated note:  What is the obsession of having to rank everything, everywhere, all the time?

I just don't get it.  I'm old I guess.

 

I'm now moving you down my TBD big-board of posters.....

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

pretty much 1/1 and 5/2

 

You'd give me 5/2 on Cleveland to be a playoff team in 2021?

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Kpassagnon signed a two year contract with the Saints worth $4.5 million.  

 

Wilson went to the Jags on a one year contract worth $2 million

 

Okafor played 26% of the snaps last year, not 40-50%, and spent big chunks of 2019 and 2020 on IR.  Maybe Andy is looking for more durability. 

 

Breeland is still a free agent two months into free agency in a position of high demand.  I think that says something about Breeland.

 

Respectfully Hap, I don't think any of these players are key loses to the Chiefs and needed to be pointed out in the OP.  If you feel that my omitting these four players from the KC side of the equation undermines my entire position, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

🍻

 

 

I agree for the most part.  I do believe Breeland played an important part of their defense though.  But he still may return.  In fact, I expect him to return.  We shall see

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You'd give me 5/2 on Cleveland to be a playoff team in 2021?

or whatever the fractional equivalent of Cleveland +250 to miss playoffs is

[NewEra]

58 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

With no equal mention of our draft it reads very much like ‘the Browns drafted guys I wanted so they’ll be better than us’

How many of our draftees will be starting?  Most likely zero.  How many will play meaningful snaps, most likely, 2. Their draft class is likely to have a much bigger impact on 2021 than the bills draftees. You would agree.....no?

[Jay_Fixit]

3 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

So teams got better after the draft and free agency? Cool. 

 

Guess we’ll see what’s what on the field. 

 

 

I bet you don’t talk to your mother like that!

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

This is a key point to remember. In the AFC Championship game, all the Chiefs drives resulted in TDs except for two. (1 punt and 1 FG.) The Bills defense did not give the team as a whole a chance to win.

 

In their playoff game against the Chiefs, the Browns defense did a significantly better job than did the Bills. 
 

Both defenses have added more horses. But for the Bills more horses alone won’t be enough. McDermott and Frazier need to come up with a much better plan or scheme than the one they deployed in the AFC Championship game. I hope they’re working on that this off-season. 
 

If the Bills’ early draft picks pan out, and if Lamp is the answer at starting OG, they should have the talent to challenge for the conference championship. But they’re not getting past KC without a better defensive plan. 

 

Football doesn't work like that. What happened one week has no bearing on what happens the next. There is no way to logically justify that because Team X played better than Team Y in consecutive weeks against Team Z that therefore Team X would beat Team Y if they had played.

[GoBills808]

Just now, NewEra said:

How many of our draftees will be starting?  Most likely zero.  How many will play meaningful snaps, most likely, 2. Their draft class is likely to have a much bigger impact on 2021 than the bills draftees. You would agree.....no?

I do not believe a higher percentage of rookies starting is a valid basis for comparing the relative strengths of two teams. Often quite the opposite actually.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Cleveland needs to worry about going 0.500 in the AFC North.  Cleveland last finished better than 3rd in the AFC North in 2002.  Cleveland has not won their division since 1989.  

 

In conclusion, shut up about the Browns. SHUT UP ABOUT THE F@#$ING BROWNS!!!

 

 

Coming into last season the Bills hadn't won the AFCE since 1995.  That didn't stop them from winning it last year.

 

The Steelers finished 12-4, the Browns and Ravens both finished 11-5.  While the Brown did finish 3rd last year, that's a bit deceptive taken out of context.  They were one game behind Pittsburgh and had the same record as the Ravens.  They are right there in the AFCN and I think they will win the division this year.

 

If my thread has caused you some emotional distress Jauronimo,  my sincere apologies, sir.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

or whatever the fractional equivalent of Cleveland +250 to miss playoffs is

 

If I get 5/2 for Cleveland to make the playoffs I'd take it. $50 charity bet. If I lose I pay $50 to a charity of your choice. If you lose you pay $175 to a charity of my choice.

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

If I get 5/2 for Cleveland to make the playoffs I'd take it. $50 charity bet. If I lose I pay $50 to a charity of your choice. If you lose you pay $175 to a charity of my choice.

How are you thinking you get 5/2 on the second best team in the AFC to make the playoffs lol

 

you get 2/5

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

How are you thinking you get 5/2 on the second best team in the AFC to make the playoffs lol

 

you get 2/5

 

I don't think they are the 2nd best team in the AFC. I think they are the 3rd best team. You said 5/2. I don't get decimal odds. 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If I get 5/2 for Cleveland to make the playoffs I'd take it. $50 charity bet. If I lose I pay $50 to a charity of your choice. If you lose you pay $175 to a charity of my choice.

$175?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

$175?

 

He said 5/2. 

[Shaw66]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He said 5/2. 

I don't understand odds, but wouldn't be $125?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I don't understand odds, but wouldn't be $125?

 

Plus the stake.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they are the 2nd best team in the AFC. I think they are the 3rd best team. You said 5/2. I don't get decimal odds. 

5/2 to miss playoffs

 

2/5 to make playoffs

 

should be decent odds if you are as high on Browns as OP seems to be

[Orlando Tim]

Basing the Browns being better than us based on what happened vs KC is ridiculous. We had a better record against superior opponents. We are probably the better team based on our QB being a full level above theirs. It is not a given by any means but I would guess we are ahead of Cleveland on all the Vegas boards 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo Timmy said:

Basing the Browns being better than us based on what happened vs KC is ridiculous. We had a better record against superior opponents. We are probably the better team based on our QB being a full level above theirs. It is not a given by any means but I would guess we are ahead of Cleveland on all the Vegas boards 

We are by quite a margin

[DCbillsfan]

Do 7 teams make the playoffs from the AFC in 2021?  Or was that a one off?

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Coming into last season the Bills hadn't won the AFCE since 1995.  That didn't stop them from winning it last year.

 

The Steelers finished 12-4, the Browns and Ravens both finished 11-5.  While the Brown did finish 3rd last year, that's a bit deceptive taken out of context.  They were one game behind Pittsburgh and had the same record as the Ravens.  They are right there in the AFCN and I think they will win the division this year.

 

If my thread has caused you some emotional distress Jauronimo,  my sincere apologies, sir.

The Bills WON the division last year which is a lot different than coming in 3rd.  In fact, they swept it.    The Browns went 1-3 against the only decent teams in the NFC North and were swept by the Ravens.  I am not convinced the Stillers are just going to roll over and die.  I don't think the Browns are Vegas the favorite to win their own division let alone 2nd best in the AFC.   

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

5/2 to miss playoffs

 

2/5 to make playoffs

 

should be decent odds if you are as high on Browns as OP seems to be

 

I don't bet odds on. But the Browns will make the playoffs.

Just now, DCbillsfan said:

Do 7 teams make the playoffs from the AFC in 2021?  Or was that a one off?

 

Yea. 7 teams.

[NewEra]

I was just replying to your quote.

 

But we are still starting Levi Wallace/Dane, Feliciano, Star, Addison, Ford/Ike/lamp, Knox, motor/Moss.  

I would consider each of them below average starters.  
 

who is a below average starter for the Browns?  Their SLB Jacob Phillips, that will barely play now?  Who else?  Ronnie Harrison, who might be replaced by Delpit or LeCounte at some point?  Billings? Maybe 3 players imo.  It’s a very solid roster.  Ours is too, don’t get me wrong.  But advantage Browns on overall talent, imo

[Inigo Montoya]

I am now withdrawing from the field of battle. 

 

I appreciate the reasoned responses from many.

 

I stand by my OP.

 

Wouldn't the world be boring if we all thought the same way?

 

🍻

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Those odds should be very attractive then

How are they attractive? https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/playoff-odds/

 

and that was before the drafted Newsome, JOK and friends. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by NewEra

[Arm of Harm]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Football doesn't work like that. What happened one week has no bearing on what happens the next. There is no way to logically justify that because Team X played better than Team Y in consecutive weeks against Team Z that therefore Team X would beat Team Y if they had played.

That’s not what I was saying in my post.

 

Cleveland’s defense has demonstrated the ability to contain the Chiefs offense. The Bills defense has not. Until or unless that changes the Browns are more likely to be able to make it past the Chiefs than are the Bills. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

How are they attractive? https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/playoff-odds/

 

and that was before the drafted Newsome, JOK and friends. 

I mean we are in a thread that proposes they are the second best team in the conference🤷‍♂️

[Orlando Tim]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

How are they attractive? https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/playoff-odds/

I am actually surprised that Vegas has the Ravens ahead of us seeing as their schedule should be harder than last year, they did not get any major upgrades, and they will still be in a rough division.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

The fact that Josh is THAT much better than Baker isn’t everything but it’s the most important factor as to why they won’t eclipse Buffalo, likely ever.

 

Browns came close to beating Henne...

 

Meanwhile how did they look in their two games vs the Ravens who the Bills completely smothered defensively.

 

In two games vs the Ravens, the Browns gave up 85 points and lost both.

The Bills allowed 3 points, the Browns 42.5 per game, so forgive me for thinking this entire argument is a giant steaming pile of garbage basing it on the fact they signed an underachieving DE and drafted a bunch of unproven players just like everybody else did. As if them filling holes in the draft is somehow better than the Bills addressing their need at the edge.

 

If you’re going to cherry pick how they did vs the Chiefs, while still LOSING, without a full game of Mahomes, then you can’t neglect how they got completely owned by the Ravens while Buffalo did the polar opposite not even allowing a single TD.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Jaraxxus said:

No

 

It really would.